Diesel just doesn't win me over....
Discussion
andy-xr said:
Welshbeef said:
Have you actually looked at the linked I posted? Clearly not as all of those diesels have peak power well over 4k revs in fact 4,750rpm with rev limits of 5,750-6,000rpm.
I don't know of any diesel with peak power @ 2.5k revs. Was that motor boating?
If you look at an average Mondeo, it makes peak torque at around 1850 rpm and peak power at 3500 rpm. So you get the 140hp or whatever it is further up the rev range, put you get the 350nm torque at under 2k rpmI don't know of any diesel with peak power @ 2.5k revs. Was that motor boating?
On a graph I think that'd look like torque starts high and decreases with revs, whereas power starts low and increases with revs. Somewhere there's a crossover point
I've driven a Mondeo TDCi. It's best to change up around 2500 rpm to be onto the power in the next gear. It's not nice to change at 3.5k rpm, you've missed the bit in the next gear where you keep accelerating and progressing, it's easier to skip a gear, like 2nd to 4th and keep going than hit 3rd and hold it for a couple of seconds if yo're revving it higher than what's optimal
The graphs shows different you've the same power at 2,750 rpm as you have at 4,500 rpm with peak at 3k revs.
If you change up at 2.5k that is not fast at all your simply enjoying the "jerk".
I do like it when the graph tells the true story you may not have driven it like that much before - try driving it in the way for a week/one full tank full of derv it will be eye opening and maybe change your views.
Welshbeef said:
andy-xr said:
Welshbeef said:
Have you actually looked at the linked I posted? Clearly not as all of those diesels have peak power well over 4k revs in fact 4,750rpm with rev limits of 5,750-6,000rpm.
I don't know of any diesel with peak power @ 2.5k revs. Was that motor boating?
If you look at an average Mondeo, it makes peak torque at around 1850 rpm and peak power at 3500 rpm. So you get the 140hp or whatever it is further up the rev range, put you get the 350nm torque at under 2k rpmI don't know of any diesel with peak power @ 2.5k revs. Was that motor boating?
On a graph I think that'd look like torque starts high and decreases with revs, whereas power starts low and increases with revs. Somewhere there's a crossover point
I've driven a Mondeo TDCi. It's best to change up around 2500 rpm to be onto the power in the next gear. It's not nice to change at 3.5k rpm, you've missed the bit in the next gear where you keep accelerating and progressing, it's easier to skip a gear, like 2nd to 4th and keep going than hit 3rd and hold it for a couple of seconds if yo're revving it higher than what's optimal
The graphs shows different you've the same power at 2,750 rpm as you have at 4,500 rpm with peak at 3k revs.
If you change up at 2.5k that is not fast at all your simply enjoying the "jerk".
I do like it when the graph tells the true story you may not have driven it like that much before - try driving it in the way for a week/one full tank full of derv it will be eye opening and maybe change your views.
Fast droid... Those sound really crappy diesels tbh... But I had a Clio 1.9D NA diesel and what a piece of s
t!!! Fair enough it was bullet proof... Still going with 300k and it will probably will carry on but really asthmatic!! Better diesels I have tried where a 320d...bearable, 350 Cdi and 330d... Still... Longing for that V8
t!!! Fair enough it was bullet proof... Still going with 300k and it will probably will carry on but really asthmatic!! Better diesels I have tried where a 320d...bearable, 350 Cdi and 330d... Still... Longing for that V8scherzkeks said:
In the C/E 250 version, it develops 204 bhp and 500 nm (379 lb/ft). It has some serious midrange pull. I had one as a loaner and would trade my 350 for one if I did more miles. Front end is much lighter.
I have a C250 for the last 5k miles and it has averaged 47mpg with highs of 53 on some journeys. Apart from a bit of clatter at town speeds it is a very quiet, torque machine that pulls hard everywhere.For a four pot diesel I am very impressed and not visiting petrol stations very often, is a huge bonus.
jjr1 said:
I have a C250 for the last 5k miles and it has averaged 47mpg with highs of 53 on some journeys. Apart from a bit of clatter at town speeds it is a very quiet, torque machine that pulls hard everywhere.
For a four pot diesel I am very impressed and not visiting petrol stations very often, is a huge bonus.
Range is really a big plus - especially in winter. For a four pot diesel I am very impressed and not visiting petrol stations very often, is a huge bonus.
The utter waste of time filling up regardless of fuel type is a horrible thing.
Welshbeef said:
Range is really a big plus - especially in winter.
The utter waste of time filling up regardless of fuel type is a horrible thing.
If you fill up during the day. I usually fill up after midnight or just after 7AM if I'm in a tursl area. No waiting for a pump, no waiting in a queue. Rarely do I wish for much more range.The utter waste of time filling up regardless of fuel type is a horrible thing.
Baryonyx said:
Welshbeef said:
Range is really a big plus - especially in winter.
The utter waste of time filling up regardless of fuel type is a horrible thing.
If you fill up during the day. I usually fill up after midnight or just after 7AM if I'm in a tursl area. No waiting for a pump, no waiting in a queue. Rarely do I wish for much more range.The utter waste of time filling up regardless of fuel type is a horrible thing.
What range do you get?
Would filling up once a year be great ? I'd say so.
Who actually likes filling up?
I posted earlier in this thread, but I see comments on a couple of things I have experienced having run a BMW E46 Compact in both 320 td and now 325 ti versions.
Diesels that seem to bog down at low revs - well yes the 320 td had to be doing about 10 mph before you tried to use 2nd to avoid it stalling. The 325 ti may produce less torque but can easily pick up smoothly from 5 mph in 2nd (or 3rd if you want).
Admittedly my 123d never had that low speed issue, but that is why it had 2 turbos (and low gearing to make it seem much faster than a 120d when it probably wasn't really).
Realistic usable rev range with the diesel was 3,000 rpm whereas the 325 is more like 6,000!
I got about 46 mpg from the 320 td over 43,000 miles - the 325 ti is doing just over 31 so far but I just would not entertain another diesel whatever mileage I was doing. Less economy is a price I will gladly pay for the smoothness and the soundtrack!
And while diesels with more than 4 cylinders may sound better than those with less, they don't sound anything like as good as petrols with more than 4 cylinders!
Diesels that seem to bog down at low revs - well yes the 320 td had to be doing about 10 mph before you tried to use 2nd to avoid it stalling. The 325 ti may produce less torque but can easily pick up smoothly from 5 mph in 2nd (or 3rd if you want).
Admittedly my 123d never had that low speed issue, but that is why it had 2 turbos (and low gearing to make it seem much faster than a 120d when it probably wasn't really).
Realistic usable rev range with the diesel was 3,000 rpm whereas the 325 is more like 6,000!
I got about 46 mpg from the 320 td over 43,000 miles - the 325 ti is doing just over 31 so far but I just would not entertain another diesel whatever mileage I was doing. Less economy is a price I will gladly pay for the smoothness and the soundtrack!
And while diesels with more than 4 cylinders may sound better than those with less, they don't sound anything like as good as petrols with more than 4 cylinders!
Welshbeef said:
A reason the pumps are quiet at midnight is because most people don't do it so other times are even busier as we don't have set slots through the 24 Hour day for smooth consumption.
What range do you get?
Would filling up once a year be great ? I'd say so.
Who actually likes filling up?
I genuinely don't think most people care at all about filling up. I do it every week (or even less) and once on a long round trip. It takes 2 minutes and I get to buy a drink and stretch my legs.What range do you get?
Would filling up once a year be great ? I'd say so.
Who actually likes filling up?
Anyone who drives more than 300 miles at a stretch is a better man than me.
Welshbeef said:
Have you actually looked at the linked I posted? Clearly not as all of those diesels have peak power well over 4k revs in fact 4,750rpm with rev limits of 5,750-6,000rpm.
I don't know of any diesel with peak power @ 2.5k revs. Was that motor boating?
Ok.. I'll bite here.. Show me a video of one of these diesels you're on about reaching a (I'll make it a bit easier for you) 5750 rev limit?I don't know of any diesel with peak power @ 2.5k revs. Was that motor boating?
Didn't think you could.
Welshbeef said:
http://www.superchips.co.uk/curves/FordTDCI140.pdf
The graphs shows different you've the same power at 2,750 rpm as you have at 4,500 rpm with peak at 3k revs.
If you change up at 2.5k that is not fast at all your simply enjoying the "jerk".
I do like it when the graph tells the true story you may not have driven it like that much before - try driving it in the way for a week/one full tank full of derv it will be eye opening and maybe change your views.
I shant, on account of a) not owning a diesel and b) it's not particularly enjoyable and c) you sound a bit condescending with most of your posts and that narks me a bit. The graphs shows different you've the same power at 2,750 rpm as you have at 4,500 rpm with peak at 3k revs.
If you change up at 2.5k that is not fast at all your simply enjoying the "jerk".
I do like it when the graph tells the true story you may not have driven it like that much before - try driving it in the way for a week/one full tank full of derv it will be eye opening and maybe change your views.
When I had diesels I tended to see it as the jerk would get me to the speed I wanted to go at, and the power would keep me at that speed. I'd rather not rag the tits off an engine if it's not necessary, as in, I can choose to short shift up at whatever revs it feels best to, but driving it upwards of 3/4 or below 1/4 of the available rev range isnt generally something I want to do repeatedly on any car, saves on garage bills
jjr1 said:
I have a C250 for the last 5k miles and it has averaged 47mpg with highs of 53 on some journeys. Apart from a bit of clatter at town speeds it is a very quiet, torque machine that pulls hard everywhere.
For a four pot diesel I am very impressed and not visiting petrol stations very often, is a huge bonus.
Yes, I only really noticed clatter at idle speeds and up to about 20 km/h. Many of the newer petrol engines with GDI sound like diesels at idle anyways, so who cares.For a four pot diesel I am very impressed and not visiting petrol stations very often, is a huge bonus.
The motor seemed to have good torque up to redline. Not looked at the graph for it though.
philmots said:
Welshbeef said:
Have you actually looked at the linked I posted? Clearly not as all of those diesels have peak power well over 4k revs in fact 4,750rpm with rev limits of 5,750-6,000rpm.
I don't know of any diesel with peak power @ 2.5k revs. Was that motor boating?
Ok.. I'll bite here.. Show me a video of one of these diesels you're on about reaching a (I'll make it a bit easier for you) 5750 rev limit?I don't know of any diesel with peak power @ 2.5k revs. Was that motor boating?
Didn't think you could.
Diderot said:
philmots said:
Welshbeef said:
Have you actually looked at the linked I posted? Clearly not as all of those diesels have peak power well over 4k revs in fact 4,750rpm with rev limits of 5,750-6,000rpm.
I don't know of any diesel with peak power @ 2.5k revs. Was that motor boating?
Ok.. I'll bite here.. Show me a video of one of these diesels you're on about reaching a (I'll make it a bit easier for you) 5750 rev limit?I don't know of any diesel with peak power @ 2.5k revs. Was that motor boating?
Didn't think you could.
Fastdruid said:
Diderot said:
philmots said:
Welshbeef said:
Have you actually looked at the linked I posted? Clearly not as all of those diesels have peak power well over 4k revs in fact 4,750rpm with rev limits of 5,750-6,000rpm.
I don't know of any diesel with peak power @ 2.5k revs. Was that motor boating?
Ok.. I'll bite here.. Show me a video of one of these diesels you're on about reaching a (I'll make it a bit easier for you) 5750 rev limit?I don't know of any diesel with peak power @ 2.5k revs. Was that motor boating?
Didn't think you could.
Mind you, there was no real point revving my Chim 450 beyond 5k rpm either! And likewise my XKR - 6k ish tops. Z4MC on the other hand a different matter.
theboss said:
Diderot said:
those irrational haters who have never driven a X35/40d or indeed 550d and simply cannot get their heads around the fact that they drive very much the same as a petrol turbo, only with less turbo lag and better throttle response.
Are you serious? 
Not sure why diesels get such a slaggin on here.
Had a couple, 2003 Focus 1.8TDCI and 2004 Seat Leon FR TDI, so not the latest tech by any means. Both were economical, fast enough (after remapping) and very effective at what they did, but quite noisy, rough and not at all nice to rev or listen to. Then again, I wasn't expecting to cruise around with the window open admiring the exhaust note....
After a short acclimatisation I found it easy enough getting used to the lower rev power band vs a petrol and avoid dropping off boost. It's easier now as more modern diesels seem to have better torque delivery from way below 2000 revs, when the turbos on my cars kicked in.
Was certainly easier to drive fast than my current car, a BMW 325, where the power only really comes in above 4000rpm. The diesels offered more accessible power for everyday driving and more effortless overtaking.
I'd have another, but probably an automatic as that would help keep the revs up and keep the engine on boost. Then again, a large capacity LPG-ed petrol automatic is also tempting.
Had a couple, 2003 Focus 1.8TDCI and 2004 Seat Leon FR TDI, so not the latest tech by any means. Both were economical, fast enough (after remapping) and very effective at what they did, but quite noisy, rough and not at all nice to rev or listen to. Then again, I wasn't expecting to cruise around with the window open admiring the exhaust note....
After a short acclimatisation I found it easy enough getting used to the lower rev power band vs a petrol and avoid dropping off boost. It's easier now as more modern diesels seem to have better torque delivery from way below 2000 revs, when the turbos on my cars kicked in.
Was certainly easier to drive fast than my current car, a BMW 325, where the power only really comes in above 4000rpm. The diesels offered more accessible power for everyday driving and more effortless overtaking.
I'd have another, but probably an automatic as that would help keep the revs up and keep the engine on boost. Then again, a large capacity LPG-ed petrol automatic is also tempting.
Mr Tidy said:
I posted earlier in this thread, but I see comments on a couple of things I have experienced having run a BMW E46 Compact in both 320 td and now 325 ti versions.
Diesels that seem to bog down at low revs - well yes the 320 td had to be doing about 10 mph before you tried to use 2nd to avoid it stalling. The 325 ti may produce less torque but can easily pick up smoothly from 5 mph in 2nd (or 3rd if you want).
Admittedly my 123d never had that low speed issue, but that is why it had 2 turbos (and low gearing to make it seem much faster than a 120d when it probably wasn't really).
Realistic usable rev range with the diesel was 3,000 rpm whereas the 325 is more like 6,000!
I got about 46 mpg from the 320 td over 43,000 miles - the 325 ti is doing just over 31 so far but I just would not entertain another diesel whatever mileage I was doing. Less economy is a price I will gladly pay for the smoothness and the soundtrack!
And while diesels with more than 4 cylinders may sound better than those with less, they don't sound anything like as good as petrols with more than 4 cylinders!
It is worth remebering though that the 325ti isn't the petrol equivalent of the 320td. The 318i compact fills that gap. Diesels that seem to bog down at low revs - well yes the 320 td had to be doing about 10 mph before you tried to use 2nd to avoid it stalling. The 325 ti may produce less torque but can easily pick up smoothly from 5 mph in 2nd (or 3rd if you want).
Admittedly my 123d never had that low speed issue, but that is why it had 2 turbos (and low gearing to make it seem much faster than a 120d when it probably wasn't really).
Realistic usable rev range with the diesel was 3,000 rpm whereas the 325 is more like 6,000!
I got about 46 mpg from the 320 td over 43,000 miles - the 325 ti is doing just over 31 so far but I just would not entertain another diesel whatever mileage I was doing. Less economy is a price I will gladly pay for the smoothness and the soundtrack!
And while diesels with more than 4 cylinders may sound better than those with less, they don't sound anything like as good as petrols with more than 4 cylinders!
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