Diesel just doesn't win me over....
Discussion
Welshbeef said:
Monkeylegend said:
daemon said:
Monkeylegend said:
You lot still arguing, thought you would have reached a concensus by now.
"sometimes diesel cars suit peoples needs, sometimes petrol cars suit peoples needs."
And we all love a good jerk don't we
ORD said:
I can't get my head around the idea that driving around at higher revs is somehow more difficult. It is simply a matter of selecting the correct gear.
As is the case with a diesel - you just to select the right gear. But some people come out with this "oh oh it doesnt rev out" as a "fault" with diesels as opposed to a characteristicORD said:
I can't get my head around the idea that driving around at higher revs is somehow more difficult. It is simply a matter of selecting the correct gear.
Power is what makes the car move, so you just identify that combination of torque and revs that will give you the amount of power that you want. A petrol engine often gives you quite a lot of flexibility on that.
The thing is though you don't drive around at high revs normally. Diesel and petrol cruising revs aren't that different. What is different is that to get maximum over taking grunt in a petrol you need to change down to get the revs up, where as in a diesel you just put your foot down. Power is what makes the car move, so you just identify that combination of torque and revs that will give you the amount of power that you want. A petrol engine often gives you quite a lot of flexibility on that.
Of course changing gears and revving a car isn't difficult but I suspect that it's not what most premium saloon buyers are looking for. Diesels gives you the same kind of mid range grunt for easy overtaking that you get from a large capacity petrol engine.
Devil2575 said:
ORD said:
I can't get my head around the idea that driving around at higher revs is somehow more difficult. It is simply a matter of selecting the correct gear.
Power is what makes the car move, so you just identify that combination of torque and revs that will give you the amount of power that you want. A petrol engine often gives you quite a lot of flexibility on that.
The thing is though you don't drive around at high revs normally. Diesel and petrol cruising revs aren't that different. What is different is that to get maximum over taking grunt in a petrol you need to change down to get the revs up, where as in a diesel you just put your foot down. Power is what makes the car move, so you just identify that combination of torque and revs that will give you the amount of power that you want. A petrol engine often gives you quite a lot of flexibility on that.
Of course changing gears and revving a car isn't difficult but I suspect that it's not what most premium saloon buyers are looking for. Diesels gives you the same kind of mid range grunt for easy overtaking that you get from a large capacity petrol engine.
Edited by dme123 on Thursday 23 April 17:00
Devil2575 said:
ORD said:
I can't get my head around the idea that driving around at higher revs is somehow more difficult. It is simply a matter of selecting the correct gear.
Power is what makes the car move, so you just identify that combination of torque and revs that will give you the amount of power that you want. A petrol engine often gives you quite a lot of flexibility on that.
The thing is though you don't drive around at high revs normally. Diesel and petrol cruising revs aren't that different. What is different is that to get maximum over taking grunt in a petrol you need to change down to get the revs up, where as in a diesel you just put your foot down. Power is what makes the car move, so you just identify that combination of torque and revs that will give you the amount of power that you want. A petrol engine often gives you quite a lot of flexibility on that.
Of course changing gears and revving a car isn't difficult but I suspect that it's not what most premium saloon buyers are looking for. Diesels gives you the same kind of mid range grunt for easy overtaking that you get from a large capacity petrol engine.
Anyway, all this talk of changing gear is a bit unreal, isn't it? Almost everyone is driving around in an auto, which will put the driver in the wrong gear to overtake (even in a diesel), so the only question is whether it matters that the auto box will change down 2 or 3 gears in a petrol rather than 1 or 2 in a diesel. It really is immaterial.
In my experience, an auto box will typically aim for something just above idle if given half a chance - my PDK box will, unless in Sport mode or whatever nonsense, default to about 1200 revs when not accelerating, and I think the 320d that I drove for a while defaulted to something like 1400.
(And, just to pick of an objection to my reasoning, if you are driving a manual diesel, you want your head examined
)ORD said:
Devil2575 said:
ORD said:
I can't get my head around the idea that driving around at higher revs is somehow more difficult. It is simply a matter of selecting the correct gear.
Power is what makes the car move, so you just identify that combination of torque and revs that will give you the amount of power that you want. A petrol engine often gives you quite a lot of flexibility on that.
The thing is though you don't drive around at high revs normally. Diesel and petrol cruising revs aren't that different. What is different is that to get maximum over taking grunt in a petrol you need to change down to get the revs up, where as in a diesel you just put your foot down. Power is what makes the car move, so you just identify that combination of torque and revs that will give you the amount of power that you want. A petrol engine often gives you quite a lot of flexibility on that.
Of course changing gears and revving a car isn't difficult but I suspect that it's not what most premium saloon buyers are looking for. Diesels gives you the same kind of mid range grunt for easy overtaking that you get from a large capacity petrol engine.
Anyway, all this talk of changing gear is a bit unreal, isn't it? Almost everyone is driving around in an auto, which will put the driver in the wrong gear to overtake (even in a diesel), so the only question is whether it matters that the auto box will change down 2 or 3 gears in a petrol rather than 1 or 2 in a diesel. It really is immaterial.
In my experience, an auto box will typically aim for something just above idle if given half a chance - my PDK box will, unless in Sport mode or whatever nonsense, default to about 1200 revs when not accelerating, and I think the 320d that I drove for a while defaulted to something like 1400.
(And, just to pick of an objection to my reasoning, if you are driving a manual diesel, you want your head examined
)Devil2575 said:
Yes but you still have to have some evidence to make a claim.
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/dual-mass-flywheel...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_cycle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_cycle
Welshbeef said:
DPFs are service items.
On BMWs they are 150k - but could increase or decrease usage dependant.
Are you saying that instead of diesels being unreliable in fact certain usage of a diesel causes a part to wear out quicker?
A subtle difference but a big one
No, that's what you want me to say to prove a point I'm not quite sure you're trying to make. If you want to believe that diesels somehow don't load DMFs by design more than petrols do then fill your boots, you're allowed to be wrong.On BMWs they are 150k - but could increase or decrease usage dependant.
Are you saying that instead of diesels being unreliable in fact certain usage of a diesel causes a part to wear out quicker?
A subtle difference but a big one
I'm done feeding for today.
ORD said:
I can't get my head around the idea that driving around at higher revs is somehow more difficult. It is simply a matter of selecting the correct gear.
Power is what makes the car move, so you just identify that combination of torque and revs that will give you the amount of power that you want. A petrol engine often gives you quite a lot of flexibility on that.
Power is what makes the car move, so you just identify that combination of torque and revs that will give you the amount of power that you want. A petrol engine often gives you quite a lot of flexibility on that.
BrownBottle said:
You've actually just touched on an advantage of the diesel engine that a lot of people like.
You can make fairly rapid and discreet progress without drawing attention to yourself because of the low revs, handy if you're running a bit late etc.
Page 2 You can make fairly rapid and discreet progress without drawing attention to yourself because of the low revs, handy if you're running a bit late etc.
Lost soul said:
cerb4.5lee said:
Petrol will always be better though! 
Unless you like Diesel Edited by Lost soul on Thursday 23 April 15:19
I cant believe anyone genuinely likes diesels though and surely they are only purchased for doing very high miles in(in our case)or purchased because they are perceived as being cheaper to run than a petrol overall.I used to think some bought them because of the instant low rev shove you get with a diesel but a turbo or twin turbo petrol will give you that anyway so there isn't much reason to go diesel...unless you like messy hands when filling up and noisy clatter at idle and vibration at low revs!
Devil2575 said:
I've owned a 530i and a 330i and in order to get the best out them you have to rev them past 4000 rpm. This isn't expecially taxing but compared to the 330d/530d which has over 140 lb/ft more torque which it produces at a lot less revs it is more effort.
I do agree the 330i really does need thrashing to death to get it to deliver any meaningful performance and having owned a 330d too I did chuckle the first time my mrs drove the 330i because she went my god this is slow! because she was used to the effortless low rev shove of the 330d. Now because I jump between a 640d/330i I do love the performance of the diesel but I much prefer the petrol because its much more rewarding and sounds miles better too, however the overtaking punch of the 640d is amusing because it takes such little effort whereas I would have to commit big time to do the same in the 330i.
cerb4.5lee said:
I do agree the 330i really does need thrashing to death to get it to deliver any meaningful performance and having owned a 330d too I did chuckle the first time my mrs drove the 330i because she went my god this is slow! because she was used to the effortless low rev shove of the 330d.
Now because I jump between a 640d/330i I do love the performance of the diesel but I much prefer the petrol because its much more rewarding and sounds miles better too, however the overtaking punch of the 640d is amusing because it takes such little effort whereas I would have to commit big time to do the same in the 330i.
A pretty good explanation of why someone might prefer diesel. Now because I jump between a 640d/330i I do love the performance of the diesel but I much prefer the petrol because its much more rewarding and sounds miles better too, however the overtaking punch of the 640d is amusing because it takes such little effort whereas I would have to commit big time to do the same in the 330i.
luckystrike said:
Devil2575 said:
Yes but you still have to have some evidence to make a claim.
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/dual-mass-flywheel...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_cycle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_cycle
Welshbeef said:
DPFs are service items.
On BMWs they are 150k - but could increase or decrease usage dependant.
Are you saying that instead of diesels being unreliable in fact certain usage of a diesel causes a part to wear out quicker?
A subtle difference but a big one
No, that's what you want me to say to prove a point I'm not quite sure you're trying to make. If you want to believe that diesels somehow don't load DMFs by design more than petrols do then fill your boots, you're allowed to be wrong.On BMWs they are 150k - but could increase or decrease usage dependant.
Are you saying that instead of diesels being unreliable in fact certain usage of a diesel causes a part to wear out quicker?
A subtle difference but a big one
I'm done feeding for today.
Track a car and docs and pads don't last long. Live on the M way they will last potentially hundreds of thousands of miles and need changing due to age/perishing over wearing out.
An engine generally has a 250k mile expected life some will last double that others not even half of it.
I really don't comprehend your points. Anyway you've not fed me anything I'm hungry so dinner time for me now.
Await your response & as others have pointed out to you you cannot simply make a statement then not be able to back it up with qualitative evidence not your subjective thoughts.
cslwannabe said:
And the OP didn't even experience it on a really cold day when they sound even worse and are really sluggish until they've warmed up. I'm not regretting going back to a petrol engined car as my daily driver, even if the fuel range is a bit of a pain.
They do take longer to warm up - (that's because they are more thermo dynamically efficient than a petrol). They don't sound great on start up
You'd never open the windows before you start up - something I did every day with my RS6. However I'm getting vastly more than 100% improvement in economy it's a chunk slower but I guess it's a car I could run for many years and then have a nice toy
. BrownBottle said:
Manual would be the gearbox of choice for me with any 4cyl, petrol or diesel, as it is with most people...
Mentalist It's arguable on a lot of 4 cyl petrols whether the engine is better suited to an auto. The 328i is probably better suited to an auto, for example.
I would always want a manual for an NA petrol engine.
You may well be the only man in the world who prefers a manual for a diesel. If money were no object, it would be 100 % auto for things like the 320d.
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