Diesel just doesn't win me over....
Discussion
jamieduff1981 said:
TBH it just sounds as though you're not interested in driving.
I did see a motorbike in your PH garage. It does seem quite common that bikers just regard cars as white goods.
On the contrary, I love driving. It's quite simple, for the driving I do I feel that diesel suits what I use the car for best. As I've already said, when a manufacturer produces a petrol engine that offers me a better package than what I feel I've got currently, then I'd be all over it. But no one in this thread has suggested anything yet.I did see a motorbike in your PH garage. It does seem quite common that bikers just regard cars as white goods.
If my car usage was substantially different, then I'd maybe have a petrol if that suited better. It comes down to the right tool for the job, and every ones requirements are different.
As far bikes, there's probably an element of truth in that TBH.
Sump said:
Yes they are completely s
t and the hardcore fans just use torque figures and in gear acceleration crap to cover their penny pinching.
I thought I'd get away with having a diesel in an XJ, wish I got the 5.0 as you can just tell it's a fking st diesel. The LS430 was remarkably bliss compared to it.
Meh.
Yes, diesel isnt as good to drive as a petrol. But i'm a student at uni and use my diesel to commute. I used to have 1.6 petrol which was gutless and did 30mpg, i got fed up with this so bought a diesel which turned out to be remapped and has 170hp. t and the hardcore fans just use torque figures and in gear acceleration crap to cover their penny pinching.I thought I'd get away with having a diesel in an XJ, wish I got the 5.0 as you can just tell it's a f
king st diesel. The LS430 was remarkably bliss compared to it. Meh.
It gets 45mpg on the same route and feels about 3 times as fast. As fast in a straight line as a CTR in fact (proven
). And with the money I save i can spend it on stuff like beer and hookers.delboy- likewise- I find that the TDI range has those extras ( even on the pov spec models). As I said, the (PD)engine is a lot quieter than Ford or Citroen ,and many others diesel cars. not quiet by petrol standards, but by other makers diesel engined makes a lot less noise. OK- it's not a rocket at 75bhp, but on most roads it's a fun car to drive. Bit limited on motorways as I need to hit 3000 revs to get places ,and then the economy comes down . but at 70, it's happy to accelerate upwards ( at a lot better than some higher spec / bhp ford /vauxhall models I've hired). And I've had no problems listening to the radio /CD on long motorway /DC/mixed road trips at speed.
Right drive a modern x35d it goes to 5500-5850 rpm cleanly and pulling very hard all they way.
Drive a M550d 395bhp out of the box
Drove an x35d 8 speed the F30 335d does 0-62mph in 4.7seconds
When your not in Eco pro or comfort even the standard car really does motor on - remap it and your talking of not far off a 10 second 5 series red car to 100mph.
Range how I love an easy 600 before refills and if I needed to do long stints in sure I could get it to 800 miles.
My RS6 whilst stunning noise looks and a chunk quicker everywhere I'd be filling up every 220miles on a 70-75ltr fuel tank and only super unleaded.
It's all about compromises.
Diesel I4 sounds st, I6 diesel sounds hugely better --- doesn't compare to petrolV8
Drive a M550d 395bhp out of the box
Drove an x35d 8 speed the F30 335d does 0-62mph in 4.7seconds
When your not in Eco pro or comfort even the standard car really does motor on - remap it and your talking of not far off a 10 second 5 series red car to 100mph.
Range how I love an easy 600 before refills and if I needed to do long stints in sure I could get it to 800 miles.
My RS6 whilst stunning noise looks and a chunk quicker everywhere I'd be filling up every 220miles on a 70-75ltr fuel tank and only super unleaded.
It's all about compromises.
Diesel I4 sounds s
t, I6 diesel sounds hugely better --- doesn't compare to petrolV8I've never driven a four cylinder turbo diesel that was anything less than awful. The absence of torque at low revs is horrible. Then there's the clatter, the smell and the constant fear of failure of the DMF/DPF/injectors/turbo.
Big 5+ cylinder diesels are OK, but then they're hardly cheap to run are they?
Big 5+ cylinder diesels are OK, but then they're hardly cheap to run are they?
AntiLagGC8 said:
Uncle John said:
I've an Alfa Romeo 147 JTDm with the 8v 2 litre direct multi jet engine.
It's had a Celtic Tuning remap and is 190 bhp and 290 ft/lbs and quite simply flies, small car big power. In everyday driving it's just right, power when you need it.
An average of 50 mpg as well, which when doing 18k a year is well worth it.
A petrol simply could not compete.
You've got my interest! It's had a Celtic Tuning remap and is 190 bhp and 290 ft/lbs and quite simply flies, small car big power. In everyday driving it's just right, power when you need it.
An average of 50 mpg as well, which when doing 18k a year is well worth it.
A petrol simply could not compete.
I've got a Alfa 147 JTDm 16v (150bhp) that can only hit 51mpg on a run at 70mph so I'm keen to understand how you average the same mpg! What were you getting before?
I've just checked parkers and the standard 8v 120bhp engine achieved 48mpg.
I've found my 147 and others I've driven to be really poor on fuel if you drive them on anything other than a light throttle, I always drive my work car very gently because I've got other fun cars (360bhp Impreza).
My view on diesel cars are they are fine, if you're after a punchy car for cruising with cruising but they largely are not drivers cars. In some ways I actually like them and I unless I'm in the mood for my noisy and highly strung Impreza the Alfa can be a nice relaxed drive.
Edited by AntiLagGC8 on Saturday 18th April 22:57
Gaz. said:
There was an interesting discussion about the various CLK engines, their performance vs economy and it seemed there wasn't much to choose between the 280, 350, 500 and the diesel for someone like me who does 6k per year and I do wonder how their serving and repair costs would compare over 3 years and how much of the £400 p.a. saving on fuel would be consumed by the things that may go wrong over the 5 litre petrol. It's certainly food for thought. 
I don't get why people talk about higher servicing costs on diesels?On the Merc's the schedule is exactly the same for petrol and diesel engines except that at 4yrs/50K the petrol has its lugs changed and the diesel has its fuel filter changed.
I wouldn't have a diesel if doing generally short journeys though. In our family fleet mine is the only diesel (Merc C270CDi) and I got for motorway cruising - it'll do 50MPG on 400 mile round trips.
I do think diesel's days might be numbered due to the complexity of meeting emissions targets though.
Uncle John said:
Yes 48 is the book mpg which is about right. Since the remap I've seen 55 mpg on a 70 mph commute (35 miles fast single/motorway/10 miles urban) and 50 mpg at around 75-80 mph. The remap has transformed the car. It's fast yet frugal.
Are you checking the MPG brim to brim or off the computer? Remaps can mess up the computer reading as it's calculated from injection pulses, not from actual fuel use.Monkeylegend said:
I won't be buying another diesel. My latest has only done 267k miles in 4 years, has needed to be serviced every 18k miles, the water pump sprung a leak at 218k miles, I mean only 218k miles, Mercedes should be ashamed.
I have only managed to average 52mpg over 267k miles, and it never allows me to top up the oil between services. It cruises quietly at 75mph, I even have to tell my customers it's a diesel, how dare Mercedes make a diesel that runs so quietly and economically at cruising speeds pulling over 1600 kgs, plus several suitcases and very often 5 people.
I can't understand how Mercedes have got it so wrong, I mean the DPF should have gone kaput, the fuel pump should have gone kaput, the EGR should have gone kaput, the injectors should have the black death, at least one of the turbo's should have blown up by now. I will definitely be sending an e-mail to somebody high up to express my displeasure.
Yep, definitely the last diesel I will be buying, this one will only probably get me to 500k miles or so in the next few years, then after that another 500k. It's just not good enough.
Diesel, don't you just hate them.
Oh I forgot to mention the torque
Which model and engine is that!?I have only managed to average 52mpg over 267k miles, and it never allows me to top up the oil between services. It cruises quietly at 75mph, I even have to tell my customers it's a diesel, how dare Mercedes make a diesel that runs so quietly and economically at cruising speeds pulling over 1600 kgs, plus several suitcases and very often 5 people.
I can't understand how Mercedes have got it so wrong, I mean the DPF should have gone kaput, the fuel pump should have gone kaput, the EGR should have gone kaput, the injectors should have the black death, at least one of the turbo's should have blown up by now. I will definitely be sending an e-mail to somebody high up to express my displeasure.
Yep, definitely the last diesel I will be buying, this one will only probably get me to 500k miles or so in the next few years, then after that another 500k. It's just not good enough.
Diesel, don't you just hate them.
Oh I forgot to mention the torque
Edited by Monkeylegend on Saturday 18th April 22:24
supersingle said:
I've never driven a four cylinder turbo diesel that was anything less than awful. The absence of torque at low revs is horrible. Then there's the clatter, the smell and the constant fear of failure of the DMF/DPF/injectors/turbo.
Big 5+ cylinder diesels are OK, but then they're hardly cheap to run are they?
Try the BMW 123d - sequential turbos eliminate that issue entirely Big 5+ cylinder diesels are OK, but then they're hardly cheap to run are they?
Sheepshanks said:
Are you checking the MPG brim to brim or off the computer? Remaps can mess up the computer reading as it's calculated from injection pulses, not from actual fuel use.
Exactly right , can't help thinking that many of these figures are taken from the car and have no basis in fact We recently sold our cr170 Skoda Superb , day to day real world consumption was 39-44mpg , winter-summer
It would easily exceed 50mpg on a long trip if driven sensibly on a quiet motorway but I don't think I ever exceeded 49mpg fill to fill even when doing the annual holiday to France
I believe Diesel engines are much less flexible, our past diesels have altered wildly summer to winter, short trips year round cripple the economy also , however our petrols average the same , are less impacted by being stuck in traffic or less than ideal conditions
liner33 said:
Exactly right , can't help thinking that many of these figures are taken from the car and have no basis in fact
We recently sold our cr170 Skoda Superb , day to day real world consumption was 39-44mpg , winter-summer
It would easily exceed 50mpg on a long trip if driven sensibly on a quiet motorway but I don't think I ever exceeded 49mpg fill to fill even when doing the annual holiday to France
I believe Diesel engines are much less flexible, our past diesels have altered wildly summer to winter, short trips year round cripple the economy also , however our petrols average the same , are less impacted by being stuck in traffic or less than ideal conditions
Fly instead - all that dieseling all year let your hair down and open the wallet to fly for overseas holidays We recently sold our cr170 Skoda Superb , day to day real world consumption was 39-44mpg , winter-summer
It would easily exceed 50mpg on a long trip if driven sensibly on a quiet motorway but I don't think I ever exceeded 49mpg fill to fill even when doing the annual holiday to France
I believe Diesel engines are much less flexible, our past diesels have altered wildly summer to winter, short trips year round cripple the economy also , however our petrols average the same , are less impacted by being stuck in traffic or less than ideal conditions
Jasandjules said:
I wonder if there was something wrong with it. Mine doesn't shake, frankly you don't know you are in a diesel. Nor does the power drop off that badly, not that I use it too often, but there is certainly plenty to play with for an overtake and within UK limits. Nor does the start stop judder badly. It is quite impressive just how smoothly she starts and pulls away....
Your just used to it now thats why you say that but I can assure you it is there. You will only realize if you go BACK into sitting in a petrol variant. I have driven diesels for the last 7 years however my brother has a 320i and the difference regardless of if its a 2 litre diesel right up to 4 litre diesel does not beat the refinement of a petrol.
Period!
Loudy McFatass said:
Monkeylegend said:
I won't be buying another diesel. My latest has only done 267k miles in 4 years, has needed to be serviced every 18k miles, the water pump sprung a leak at 218k miles, I mean only 218k miles, Mercedes should be ashamed.
I have only managed to average 52mpg over 267k miles, and it never allows me to top up the oil between services. It cruises quietly at 75mph, I even have to tell my customers it's a diesel, how dare Mercedes make a diesel that runs so quietly and economically at cruising speeds pulling over 1600 kgs, plus several suitcases and very often 5 people.
I can't understand how Mercedes have got it so wrong, I mean the DPF should have gone kaput, the fuel pump should have gone kaput, the EGR should have gone kaput, the injectors should have the black death, at least one of the turbo's should have blown up by now. I will definitely be sending an e-mail to somebody high up to express my displeasure.
Yep, definitely the last diesel I will be buying, this one will only probably get me to 500k miles or so in the next few years, then after that another 500k. It's just not good enough.
Diesel, don't you just hate them.
Oh I forgot to mention the torque
Which model and engine is that!?I have only managed to average 52mpg over 267k miles, and it never allows me to top up the oil between services. It cruises quietly at 75mph, I even have to tell my customers it's a diesel, how dare Mercedes make a diesel that runs so quietly and economically at cruising speeds pulling over 1600 kgs, plus several suitcases and very often 5 people.
I can't understand how Mercedes have got it so wrong, I mean the DPF should have gone kaput, the fuel pump should have gone kaput, the EGR should have gone kaput, the injectors should have the black death, at least one of the turbo's should have blown up by now. I will definitely be sending an e-mail to somebody high up to express my displeasure.
Yep, definitely the last diesel I will be buying, this one will only probably get me to 500k miles or so in the next few years, then after that another 500k. It's just not good enough.
Diesel, don't you just hate them.
Oh I forgot to mention the torque
Edited by Monkeylegend on Saturday 18th April 22:24
Petrol v diesel debates are pointless on the whole.
diesel has its advantages, petrol has its advantages, pick which works best for you and be happy. Don't try and force 'Your' particular needs and wants on others and use that as a reason.
It's like arguing about whether saloon v estate, or rwd v awd is better. Pick the car that suits you, accept you'll be making a compromise and live with it.
Or don't, trade it in, sell it on and end up in the car you should have purchased in the first place.
diesel has its advantages, petrol has its advantages, pick which works best for you and be happy. Don't try and force 'Your' particular needs and wants on others and use that as a reason.
It's like arguing about whether saloon v estate, or rwd v awd is better. Pick the car that suits you, accept you'll be making a compromise and live with it.
Or don't, trade it in, sell it on and end up in the car you should have purchased in the first place.
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