Diesel just doesn't win me over....

Diesel just doesn't win me over....

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E65Ross

Original Poster:

34,944 posts

211 months

Saturday 18th April 2015
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Been on holiday this week and a friend of mine is driving, a 2.0 diesel passat, the 170bhp one. It's not the performance that's the issue but it's so brash and unrefined. The noise is awful, the power seems to drop off considerably past 4k rpm.

Start stop REALLY doesn't work well either in this car. Every time the engine is stopped or started again the whole car shakes as the engine is rough. The only other car I've experienced stop/start in is a new M6, and it works very well as it has a nice smooth petrol engine.

Still, I suppose it's cheap on fuel and monthly payments.

Not too long ago I drove a 3.0 V6 TDI Audi A6 and that wasn't TOO bad, although at low speeds it is a bit unrefined but ok on the motorway. This 4 cylinder one is brash even on the motorway.

I'm not the only one who thinks this, am I?

Sump

5,484 posts

166 months

Saturday 18th April 2015
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Yes they are completely st and the hardcore fans just use torque figures and in gear acceleration crap to cover their penny pinching.

I thought I'd get away with having a diesel in an XJ, wish I got the 5.0 as you can just tell it's a fking st diesel. The LS430 was remarkably bliss compared to it.

Meh.

BrownBottle

1,365 posts

135 months

Saturday 18th April 2015
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4cyl diesels are pretty unremarkable as are a lot of 4cyl petrol engines.

Jasandjules

69,825 posts

228 months

Saturday 18th April 2015
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I wonder if there was something wrong with it. Mine doesn't shake, frankly you don't know you are in a diesel. Nor does the power drop off that badly, not that I use it too often, but there is certainly plenty to play with for an overtake and within UK limits. Nor does the start stop judder badly. It is quite impressive just how smoothly she starts and pulls away....

Rammy76

1,050 posts

182 months

Saturday 18th April 2015
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E65Ross said:
Been on holiday this week and a friend of mine is driving, a 2.0 diesel passat, the 170bhp one. It's not the performance that's the issue but it's so brash and unrefined. The noise is awful, the power seems to drop off considerably past 4k rpm.

Start stop REALLY doesn't work well either in this car. Every time the engine is stopped or started again the whole car shakes as the engine is rough. The only other car I've experienced stop/start in is a new M6, and it works very well as it has a nice smooth petrol engine.

Still, I suppose it's cheap on fuel and monthly payments.

Not too long ago I drove a 3.0 V6 TDI Audi A6 and that wasn't TOO bad, although at low speeds it is a bit unrefined but ok on the motorway. This 4 cylinder one is brash even on the motorway.

I'm not the only one who thinks this, am I?
Nope four cylinder diesels do tend to be rather unrefined although obviously some are better than others.

I ran a PD 1.9 TDi Passat and it served its purpose (although wasn't "bomb proof" like some would have you believe). I found it gruff, agricultural and rather bland.

I've now got a D5 Volvo which is leagues ahead in refinement and more characterful with its off beat sound. I'd like a petrol again but I've grown to like the D5 engine for what it is.

8cylinder

232 posts

141 months

Saturday 18th April 2015
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Personally for me I think the game is up for diesels,I work for a well known car company and have a lot of experience with diesel and petrol cars and unless u drive a fuel sipping small engined diesel car with fantastic mpg I don't see the point.
U pay more to buy them,u pay more to fuel them,u pay more to maintain them,the case for diesels just doesn't add up any more,especially with the recent advances in petrol technology.
If ure doing 20k plus motorway miles a year then diesel yes,otherwise in the words of dragons den (IM OUT)

C. Grimsley

1,364 posts

194 months

Saturday 18th April 2015
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8cylinder said:
Personally for me I think the game is up for diesels,I work for a well known car company and have a lot of experience with diesel and petrol cars and unless u drive a fuel sipping small engined diesel car with fantastic mpg I don't see the point.
U pay more to buy them,u pay more to fuel them,u pay more to maintain them,the case for diesels just doesn't add up any more,especially with the recent advances in petrol technology.
If ure doing 20k plus motorway miles a year then diesel yes,otherwise in the words of dragons den (IM OUT)
I totally agree and the emissions limits on diesels now is that low they are barely able to run, won't be long before they have met the limits of diesel and it can't get any better.

Some petrols now have just as good mpg figures.

Carl

shake n bake

2,221 posts

206 months

Saturday 18th April 2015
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8cylinder said:
Personally for me I think the game is up for diesels,I work for a well known car company and have a lot of experience with diesel and petrol cars and unless u drive a fuel sipping small engined diesel car with fantastic mpg I don't see the point.
U pay more to buy them,u pay more to fuel them,u pay more to maintain them,the case for diesels just doesn't add up any more,especially with the recent advances in petrol technology.
If ure doing 20k plus motorway miles a year then diesel yes,otherwise in the words of dragons den (IM OUT)
I agree, some petrols are now close to diesel mpgs, if these little turbocharged engines prove to reliable in the used car market then the trend will shift quickly.

Mr Tidy

22,065 posts

126 months

Saturday 18th April 2015
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I have to agree.
In late 2004 I was looking at doing high mileage with my job so in Jan 05 I bought a 320td Compact, then replaced it with a 123d in 2008.
They were economical, cheap to tax and as newish cars didn't have any of the swirl flap, turbo, DMF or DPF issues. They also had monster torque, especially the 123d, but they were soulless. A tool for a job I suppose.
Sold the 123d last year and am now enjoying BMW naturally-aspirated 6 cylinder bliss - stuff the cost, I should have had a 325ti followed by a 130i but you live and learn. At least I did work it out in the end!
No more diseasal for me thanks.

f1nn

2,692 posts

191 months

Saturday 18th April 2015
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It's different strokes for different folks.

There have been leaps ahead in petrol tech over the last few years for sure, and no doubt as diesels have became ever more complex there are some very expensive issues about, but my driving I am still choosing to drive an oil burner.

I'm driving a straight six 3.0D, putting out 287bhp and the best part of 500 pounds foot of torque, top speed of 155MPH, 0-100 times of 13.5 ish and fuel consumption averaging around 44MPG.

Coupled with an auto box, this combo just gives me effortless performance. I'm unsure an equivalent Petrol motor, while potentially delivering similar headline figures, would go about it in the same fuss free manor.

I hate to revert to torque and in gear figures, but in my opinion, on the road, this is what is most relevant to me (and probably the majority of road users) this is why I choose to drive a relatively large capacity diesel lump.

If a manufacturer was able to produce an engine which significantly bettered the figures above and drank petrol, It would be be on my list for sure, but to my knowledge, no one has but I'm happy for someone to prove me wrong.

Of course, some smaller capacity diesels are pretty grim, just as some small capacity patrols are, but to be fair, you've just got to pick the type of engine that suits what you need it for, and that could as easily be either.

C. Grimsley

1,364 posts

194 months

Saturday 18th April 2015
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f1nn said:
It's different strokes for different folks.

There have been leaps ahead in petrol tech over the last few years for sure, and no doubt as diesels have became ever more complex there are some very expensive issues about, but my driving I am still choosing to drive an oil burner.

I'm driving a straight six 3.0D, putting out 287bhp and the best part of 500 pounds foot of torque, top speed of 155MPH, 0-100 times of 13.5 ish and fuel consumption averaging around 44MPG.

Coupled with an auto box, this combo just gives me effortless performance. I'm unsure an equivalent Petrol motor, while potentially delivering similar headline figures, would go about it in the same fuss free manor.

I hate to revert to torque and in gear figures, but in my opinion, on the road, this is what is most relevant to me (and probably the majority of road users) this is why I choose to drive a relatively large capacity diesel lump.

If a manufacturer was able to produce an engine which significantly bettered the figures above and drank petrol, It would be be on my list for sure, but to my knowledge, no one has but I'm happy for someone to prove me wrong.

Of course, some smaller capacity diesels are pretty grim, just as some small capacity patrols are, but to be fair, you've just got to pick the type of engine that suits what you need it for, and that could as easily be either.
Can I ask the car? Reason being I have a 3.0 d with the same brake horse and it gets no where near 44mpg.

Carl

f1nn

2,692 posts

191 months

Saturday 18th April 2015
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Evolve remapped E90 330D.

I specifically used Evolve as I wanted it to remain as fuel efficient as possible, and I wasn't convinced that other companies offering remapping where not just trying to screw every last bit of power out of them. You get what you pay for.

My car will sit at 75mph, knocking out 55MPG, a more realistic motorway/A road cruise will see around 47-48 MPG, and overall I'm achieving around 43.8-44.1 MPG.

For the performance available, that'll do fine.

Tomo1971

1,127 posts

156 months

Saturday 18th April 2015
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Diesel engines have always offered better mpg with (when turbo'd) decent grunt.

Yes, small turbo petrol engines can offer decent mpg but are god awful to drive in the real world as not as much grunt and can often be quite strained and noisy when pressing on.

Many of the people on here who have and brag about having several cars in their garage dont care if they lose £1000 a year in petrol costs over having a diesel. Back in the real world, that kind of saving to many normal people is a substantial chunk of their disposable income.


jamieduff1981

8,022 posts

139 months

Saturday 18th April 2015
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How much does it cost to save a few mpg?

I'm with the OP on this. I hate diesels.

Uncle John

4,270 posts

190 months

Saturday 18th April 2015
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I've an Alfa Romeo 147 JTDm with the 8v 2 litre direct multi jet engine.

It's had a Celtic Tuning remap and is 190 bhp and 290 ft/lbs and quite simply flies, small car big power. In everyday driving it's just right, power when you need it.

An average of 50 mpg as well, which when doing 18k a year is well worth it.

A petrol simply could not compete.

E65Ross

Original Poster:

34,944 posts

211 months

Saturday 18th April 2015
quotequote all
Straight 6 diesels are much nicer.... But they aren't as nice as straight 6 petrol.

If fuel was 10p/litre there's no way you'd choose a turbocharged 3 litre diesel over a turbocharged 3 litre petrol. It's not as smooth, in gear it's no faster etc etc...

GC8

19,910 posts

189 months

Saturday 18th April 2015
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Ive recently been won over, and by an old-tech Rover L-Series TDi engine diesel car too! Admittedly not standard, the car pulls hard enough between two and three thousand revs that it satisfies my desire for performance and I was driving a 944 Turbo everyday before that!

Economy has been sacrificed somewhat, but 38mpg is far, far better than the 16mpg that the 944 returned in town and its still quick enough most of the time.

Its all about the torque of course, and the TDi engine isn't far behind the 951 although the delivery characteristics are very different. It comes up at 2,000rpm and pulls like a train to 3,000rpm and then starts to fade. You have to think ahead to drive quickly, as you do in a 1980s turbocharged petrol car...

f1nn

2,692 posts

191 months

Saturday 18th April 2015
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E65Ross said:
Straight 6 diesels are much nicer.... But they aren't as nice as straight 6 petrol.

If fuel was 10p/litre there's no way you'd choose a turbocharged 3 litre diesel over a turbocharged 3 litre petrol. It's not as smooth, in gear it's no faster etc etc...
As much as I'm with you to a degree, there is a but....

I recently drove a M135I, fitted as you know with a 3.0 turbocharged straight six. Fabulous little car with an amazing engine and box combo. Once the novelty had worn off and I started to drive it how I drive a car normally, (and I'm not expecting the majority to agree with me) the torque delivery of a diesel just makes more sense to me for the type of driving I do.


BrownBottle

1,365 posts

135 months

Saturday 18th April 2015
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Tomo1971 said:
Diesel engines have always offered better mpg with (when turbo'd) decent grunt.

Yes, small turbo petrol engines can offer decent mpg but are god awful to drive in the real world as not as much grunt and can often be quite strained and noisy when pressing on.

Many of the people on here who have and brag about having several cars in their garage dont care if they lose £1000 a year in petrol costs over having a diesel. Back in the real world, that kind of saving to many normal people is a substantial chunk of their disposable income.
Yep, once you start getting over £1000 of a difference it becomes harder to ignore.

That can be a chunk of money towards a family holiday or Christmas etc. I drive a 530d, I'd rather be driving an M5 for sure but it's hard to justify for a car mainly used for commuting and long motorway journeys to visit relatives.

Uncle John

4,270 posts

190 months

Saturday 18th April 2015
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E65Ross said:
Straight 6 diesels are much nicer.... But they aren't as nice as straight 6 petrol.

If fuel was 10p/litre there's no way you'd choose a turbocharged 3 litre diesel over a turbocharged 3 litre petrol. It's not as smooth, in gear it's no faster etc etc...
I have a twin turbo V6 diesel, sounds very good for a diesel.