RE: Smart motorways are dumb: Tell Me I'm Wrong
Discussion
huggies said:
A few weeks ago we were stranded on M42 at Junction 1 in a near lethal spot with a totally dead car
We waited 4/1/2 hours for rescue due to delays in recovery vehicles
Did we see one traffic cop/man who likes to dress as one or spotted by camera?..............Of course not
As it was going dark and we had no lights the recovery driver arrived and swore a lot saying the inside lane is required to be closed if anyone breaks down where we did.Oh well thanks for that.
Still here to tell the tale but will it make a difference.Mmmmm.
Managed motorways my a**e
So what did you do when you broke down? did you look for an SOS phone? did you call 101? or even 999 if you thought that you were in a dangerous location? or did you just sit there waiting?We waited 4/1/2 hours for rescue due to delays in recovery vehicles
Did we see one traffic cop/man who likes to dress as one or spotted by camera?..............Of course not
As it was going dark and we had no lights the recovery driver arrived and swore a lot saying the inside lane is required to be closed if anyone breaks down where we did.Oh well thanks for that.
Still here to tell the tale but will it make a difference.Mmmmm.
Managed motorways my a**e
Gafferjim said:
So what did you do when you broke down? did you look for an SOS phone? did you call 101? or even 999 if you thought that you were in a dangerous location? or did you just sit there waiting?
A fair argument, but it still begs the question of how 'smart' these motorways really are.If you have faith in them to be able to add capacity and all the other bells and whistles they're supposed to provide, spotting a stopped car in a hard shoulder should be a piece of cake!
Dave
I wouldn't expect them to do that. I would expect them to monitor volume and speed of traffic and when the volume was such that it was likely to start to cause tailbacks, to start to gradually reduce the limit to a speed where everyone can keep moving and avoid stop-starting.
Isn't that what they do?
If you don't want to get fined, just don't go under the cameras at more than the indicated speed and they won't make any money that way will they?
Isn't that what they do?
If you don't want to get fined, just don't go under the cameras at more than the indicated speed and they won't make any money that way will they?
zebedee said:
If you don't want to get fined, just don't go under the cameras at more than the indicated speed and they won't make any money that way will they?
Last time I went down the M1 south of Sheffield, these things were popping on and off at 50mph randomly.It was a quiet motorway but they were on/off and everyone was seemingly baffled and slowing down/speeding up, or panic braking.
Around Birmingham they kinda work I suppose. You add some capacity slowing people down and bunching them up. But since everyone has a different speedo and tolerance to overrunning the speed limit, you get banks of traffic that can't move. You can be blocked out of a junction exit miles before it, and need to slow down and cause a shockwave of slowing down through the traffic.
Given you usually do the whole Birmingham SE part in the day time at 50mph, it begs the question if they really just need another motorway that essentially by-passes Birmingham proper... so all the by-pass volume doesn't need to even go near.
Dave
the shockwaves are nowhere near as bad as they are on sections where some people are doing 70 and others 20, if everyone is doing 40-50 in a 50 restriction (and I would say most are doing 45-50) then in my experience you only get ripples if someone wants to change lane and exit, probably not even noticed by the time you get 5 or 6 cars back.
Fastdruid said:
Or for that matter the worry that you've been blissfully on cruse control at 60 only to spot at the last moment that the next sign is 50 (which still looks all too much like 60). Is that a change in limit? Has it been 50 for the last umpteen and you've missed them?
....and then you spend the next day or two worrying about an NIP in the post. When if fact you've probably done nothing wrong.This definitely makes driving more stressful than it used to be, and can be very distracting or worse, lead to sudden braking / aggressive driving.
Why has there been no info on this to the public.
My 2 drives round the m25 since it started, I saw 3 rear end accidents.
No one knows if there is a grace period (even this site), so people slam on the anchors when the see a speed limit change.
Surely whole point of these is to get people to drive at a more consistent speed to stop the brake light concertina effect and improve the flow of traffic.
Almost every gantry had a different speed limit, how does that help.
I agree with one of the posts here, if the info the highway agency has got is not verified then there should be a warning and not a blanket speed limit.
Very confused by the comment that until 4 cars break the arbitrary limit then it will stay as it is. Go on, do something for your fellow man, break the speed limit. WTF.
Finally concerning the mums-net comments, "honey, you didn't speed, so you did nothing wrong". Sorry but as far as I am concerned what you did was attempted murder. Your actions directly resulted in a head on car crash for someone. Accelerating when someone is trying to overtake is about the most dangerous and selfish things you can do.
My 2 drives round the m25 since it started, I saw 3 rear end accidents.
No one knows if there is a grace period (even this site), so people slam on the anchors when the see a speed limit change.
Surely whole point of these is to get people to drive at a more consistent speed to stop the brake light concertina effect and improve the flow of traffic.
Almost every gantry had a different speed limit, how does that help.
I agree with one of the posts here, if the info the highway agency has got is not verified then there should be a warning and not a blanket speed limit.
Very confused by the comment that until 4 cars break the arbitrary limit then it will stay as it is. Go on, do something for your fellow man, break the speed limit. WTF.
Finally concerning the mums-net comments, "honey, you didn't speed, so you did nothing wrong". Sorry but as far as I am concerned what you did was attempted murder. Your actions directly resulted in a head on car crash for someone. Accelerating when someone is trying to overtake is about the most dangerous and selfish things you can do.
Taita said:
A lot of the problems (from drivers and indeed from Highways England staff) seem to be due to MIDAS setting limits and QUEUE symbols based on flow.
If it so gash, why haven't we fecked it off?
Well maybe because no fecker ever takes any fecking notice of those who have to actually use their fecking bright ideas I imagine!If it so gash, why haven't we fecked it off?
I join the M25 southbound from the eastbound M3 at least once a week and there are invariably 3 different limits displayed between J12 and J11 - it can't be more than 2 miles and that just has variable speed limits!
And now they are spending 2 years turning the approaching stretch of the M3 into a smart (apparently a simile for fecked-up) motorway - how long does some paint and a few gantries take FFS!
Problem seems to be they are not managed, someone just takes a look at them now and again perhaps when they aren't texting their mates, updating their social media or getting a coffee!
Dagz said:
Yay make a bit of money from the speeders!
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/m60-motorway-speeding-fines-worth-9088761Dagz said:
But lets be honest, is it really the speeders who cause accidents? As someone who spends a fair amount of time at alot of rtc's, i would suggest only 2 to 3 percent of them are a result of speed. The other 98 percent are a result of intoxication, inexperience, poor judgement, distraction, lack of attention or plain stupidness! But we cant catch that on a camera!!!! But neither can the bobby on the beat because there isnt any!!!
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/video-woman-reading-while-driving-9093030 There you go, right on both counts
No, you are wrong. 'Smart' motorways are not dumb but very clever, subtle, control mechanisms. It's the drivers that pass underneath those signs that are dumb. Or rather ignorant of their real purpose.
It might seem a bit heavy for some, but these things don't really have much to do with safety. I see their main purpose is to control the numpties driving along underneath those gantries. The object of governments is to control the masses, and we've entered into a new level of government control. Not quite 1984 yet, but getting there.
Oh and by the way VAT is going up another per cent too.
People are so confused by the lies that are spread by the main stream media they forget that they possess a free will.
For those that think these control mechanisms are a good thing, may I remind you that VAT used to be 12%. Because all the numpties out their prefer their lives to be controlled by government, you won't complain when VAT goes up to 25% will you. You'll even say it's a good thing that people pay their taxes.
As well as controlling the tiny minds of people, Smart motorways can also create almost instantaneous traffic jams. Thousands of cars slowed down, changing gear or stopped, uses much more fuel that cars cruising along unhampered. Traffic jams = more tax for goverment coffers
Just do not slow down for these stupid signs on the motorway.
Better still, if there are enough of us who are fed up of this government control of our driving, just cover up or remove the car number plate and put two fingers up to Big Brother.
It might seem a bit heavy for some, but these things don't really have much to do with safety. I see their main purpose is to control the numpties driving along underneath those gantries. The object of governments is to control the masses, and we've entered into a new level of government control. Not quite 1984 yet, but getting there.
Oh and by the way VAT is going up another per cent too.
People are so confused by the lies that are spread by the main stream media they forget that they possess a free will.
For those that think these control mechanisms are a good thing, may I remind you that VAT used to be 12%. Because all the numpties out their prefer their lives to be controlled by government, you won't complain when VAT goes up to 25% will you. You'll even say it's a good thing that people pay their taxes.
As well as controlling the tiny minds of people, Smart motorways can also create almost instantaneous traffic jams. Thousands of cars slowed down, changing gear or stopped, uses much more fuel that cars cruising along unhampered. Traffic jams = more tax for goverment coffers
Just do not slow down for these stupid signs on the motorway.
Better still, if there are enough of us who are fed up of this government control of our driving, just cover up or remove the car number plate and put two fingers up to Big Brother.
bri_the_fly said:
No, you are wrong. 'Smart' motorways are not dumb but very clever, subtle, control mechanisms. It's the drivers that pass underneath those signs that are dumb. Or rather ignorant of their real purpose.
It might seem a bit heavy for some, but these things don't really have much to do with safety. I see their main purpose is to control the numpties driving along underneath those gantries. The object of governments is to control the masses, and we've entered into a new level of government control. Not quite 1984 yet, but getting there.
Oh and by the way VAT is going up another per cent too.
People are so confused by the lies that are spread by the main stream media they forget that they possess a free will.
For those that think these control mechanisms are a good thing, may I remind you that VAT used to be 12%. Because all the numpties out their prefer their lives to be controlled by government, you won't complain when VAT goes up to 25% will you. You'll even say it's a good thing that people pay their taxes.
As well as controlling the tiny minds of people, Smart motorways can also create almost instantaneous traffic jams. Thousands of cars slowed down, changing gear or stopped, uses much more fuel that cars cruising along unhampered. Traffic jams = more tax for goverment coffers
Just do not slow down for these stupid signs on the motorway.
Better still, if there are enough of us who are fed up of this government control of our driving, just cover up or remove the car number plate and put two fingers up to Big Brother.
May as well get on with the full blown "free man" crackpot spiel now you've started...It might seem a bit heavy for some, but these things don't really have much to do with safety. I see their main purpose is to control the numpties driving along underneath those gantries. The object of governments is to control the masses, and we've entered into a new level of government control. Not quite 1984 yet, but getting there.
Oh and by the way VAT is going up another per cent too.
People are so confused by the lies that are spread by the main stream media they forget that they possess a free will.
For those that think these control mechanisms are a good thing, may I remind you that VAT used to be 12%. Because all the numpties out their prefer their lives to be controlled by government, you won't complain when VAT goes up to 25% will you. You'll even say it's a good thing that people pay their taxes.
As well as controlling the tiny minds of people, Smart motorways can also create almost instantaneous traffic jams. Thousands of cars slowed down, changing gear or stopped, uses much more fuel that cars cruising along unhampered. Traffic jams = more tax for goverment coffers
Just do not slow down for these stupid signs on the motorway.
Better still, if there are enough of us who are fed up of this government control of our driving, just cover up or remove the car number plate and put two fingers up to Big Brother.
bri_the_fly said:
No, you are wrong. 'Smart' motorways are not dumb but very clever, subtle, control mechanisms. It's the drivers that pass underneath those signs that are dumb. Or rather ignorant of their real purpose.
It might seem a bit heavy for some, but these things don't really have much to do with safety. I see their main purpose is to control the numpties driving along underneath those gantries. The object of governments is to control the masses, and we've entered into a new level of government control. Not quite 1984 yet, but getting there.
Oh and by the way VAT is going up another per cent too.
People are so confused by the lies that are spread by the main stream media they forget that they possess a free will.
For those that think these control mechanisms are a good thing, may I remind you that VAT used to be 12%. Because all the numpties out their prefer their lives to be controlled by government, you won't complain when VAT goes up to 25% will you. You'll even say it's a good thing that people pay their taxes.
As well as controlling the tiny minds of people, Smart motorways can also create almost instantaneous traffic jams. Thousands of cars slowed down, changing gear or stopped, uses much more fuel that cars cruising along unhampered. Traffic jams = more tax for goverment coffers
Just do not slow down for these stupid signs on the motorway.
Better still, if there are enough of us who are fed up of this government control of our driving, just cover up or remove the car number plate and put two fingers up to Big Brother.
Well.. that escalated quickly! It might seem a bit heavy for some, but these things don't really have much to do with safety. I see their main purpose is to control the numpties driving along underneath those gantries. The object of governments is to control the masses, and we've entered into a new level of government control. Not quite 1984 yet, but getting there.
Oh and by the way VAT is going up another per cent too.
People are so confused by the lies that are spread by the main stream media they forget that they possess a free will.
For those that think these control mechanisms are a good thing, may I remind you that VAT used to be 12%. Because all the numpties out their prefer their lives to be controlled by government, you won't complain when VAT goes up to 25% will you. You'll even say it's a good thing that people pay their taxes.
As well as controlling the tiny minds of people, Smart motorways can also create almost instantaneous traffic jams. Thousands of cars slowed down, changing gear or stopped, uses much more fuel that cars cruising along unhampered. Traffic jams = more tax for goverment coffers
Just do not slow down for these stupid signs on the motorway.
Better still, if there are enough of us who are fed up of this government control of our driving, just cover up or remove the car number plate and put two fingers up to Big Brother.
I just don't get it. Would someone mind explaining how artificially limiting speeds by the use of variable speed limits can possibly result in faster journey times.
Not to mention the danger of accidents caused by drivers having to quickly react to a different limit every other hundred yards or so.
Just seems like a particularly strange form of madness to me.
Oh ..... and I'm guessing that there is a revenue raising dimension to this ...... there usually is.
Not to mention the danger of accidents caused by drivers having to quickly react to a different limit every other hundred yards or so.
Just seems like a particularly strange form of madness to me.
Oh ..... and I'm guessing that there is a revenue raising dimension to this ...... there usually is.
I WISH said:
I just don't get it. Would someone mind explaining how artificially limiting speeds by the use of variable speed limits can possibly result in faster journey times.
Not to mention the danger of accidents caused by drivers having to quickly react to a different limit every other hundred yards or so.
It's not that hard to imagine, is it?Not to mention the danger of accidents caused by drivers having to quickly react to a different limit every other hundred yards or so.
People aren't robots. They brake too late and too hard, and then when everyone else sees their brake lights, they too slow down and before long everyone behind comes to a stop.
If you can pre-emptively slow the people arriving at the back of already slowed traffic, then the effect is diminished and the whole road comes to a halt less.
Plus variance in speed is what causes problems. If everyone's actually doing 50mph, then it's very likely a better flow than a mixture of people targeting 50 through 80+, but getting in each other's way and actually doing much less.
trashbat said:
I WISH said:
I just don't get it. Would someone mind explaining how artificially limiting speeds by the use of variable speed limits can possibly result in faster journey times.
Not to mention the danger of accidents caused by drivers having to quickly react to a different limit every other hundred yards or so.
It's not that hard to imagine, is it?Not to mention the danger of accidents caused by drivers having to quickly react to a different limit every other hundred yards or so.
People aren't robots. They brake too late and too hard, and then when everyone else sees their brake lights, they too slow down and before long everyone behind comes to a stop.
If you can pre-emptively slow the people arriving at the back of already slowed traffic, then the effect is diminished and the whole road comes to a halt less.
Plus variance in speed is what causes problems. If everyone's actually doing 50mph, then it's very likely a better flow than a mixture of people targeting 50 through 80+, but getting in each other's way and actually doing much less.
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