RE: Smart motorways are dumb: Tell Me I'm Wrong
Discussion
bri_the_fly said:
No, you are wrong. 'Smart' motorways are not dumb but very clever, subtle, control mechanisms. It's the drivers that pass underneath those signs that are dumb. Or rather ignorant of their real purpose.
It might seem a bit heavy for some, but these things don't really have much to do with safety. I see their main purpose is to control the numpties driving along underneath those gantries. The object of governments is to control the masses, and we've entered into a new level of government control. Not quite 1984 yet, but getting there.
Oh and by the way VAT is going up another per cent too.
People are so confused by the lies that are spread by the main stream media they forget that they possess a free will.
For those that think these control mechanisms are a good thing, may I remind you that VAT used to be 12%. Because all the numpties out their prefer their lives to be controlled by government, you won't complain when VAT goes up to 25% will you. You'll even say it's a good thing that people pay their taxes.
As well as controlling the tiny minds of people, Smart motorways can also create almost instantaneous traffic jams. Thousands of cars slowed down, changing gear or stopped, uses much more fuel that cars cruising along unhampered. Traffic jams = more tax for goverment coffers
Just do not slow down for these stupid signs on the motorway.
Better still, if there are enough of us who are fed up of this government control of our driving, just cover up or remove the car number plate and put two fingers up to Big Brother.
Must be cosy in that tin foil house/hat combo you've got going on there.It might seem a bit heavy for some, but these things don't really have much to do with safety. I see their main purpose is to control the numpties driving along underneath those gantries. The object of governments is to control the masses, and we've entered into a new level of government control. Not quite 1984 yet, but getting there.
Oh and by the way VAT is going up another per cent too.
People are so confused by the lies that are spread by the main stream media they forget that they possess a free will.
For those that think these control mechanisms are a good thing, may I remind you that VAT used to be 12%. Because all the numpties out their prefer their lives to be controlled by government, you won't complain when VAT goes up to 25% will you. You'll even say it's a good thing that people pay their taxes.
As well as controlling the tiny minds of people, Smart motorways can also create almost instantaneous traffic jams. Thousands of cars slowed down, changing gear or stopped, uses much more fuel that cars cruising along unhampered. Traffic jams = more tax for goverment coffers
Just do not slow down for these stupid signs on the motorway.
Better still, if there are enough of us who are fed up of this government control of our driving, just cover up or remove the car number plate and put two fingers up to Big Brother.
I WISH said:
trashbat said:
I WISH said:
I just don't get it. Would someone mind explaining how artificially limiting speeds by the use of variable speed limits can possibly result in faster journey times.
Not to mention the danger of accidents caused by drivers having to quickly react to a different limit every other hundred yards or so.
It's not that hard to imagine, is it?Not to mention the danger of accidents caused by drivers having to quickly react to a different limit every other hundred yards or so.
People aren't robots. They brake too late and too hard, and then when everyone else sees their brake lights, they too slow down and before long everyone behind comes to a stop.
If you can pre-emptively slow the people arriving at the back of already slowed traffic, then the effect is diminished and the whole road comes to a halt less.
Plus variance in speed is what causes problems. If everyone's actually doing 50mph, then it's very likely a better flow than a mixture of people targeting 50 through 80+, but getting in each other's way and actually doing much less.
It's also not helped by idiots who don't know how to get up to speed on a slip road, idiots who slow down before an exit and the frankly amazing idiocy of the Highways agency who put traffic lights at the *end* of motorway slip roads.
I WISH said:
That seems illogical. The argument you are making for the 70mph limit leading to bunching or even the traffic stopping could presumably be equally applied to 60mph (or any other speed for that matter).
To a lesser extent. If you're going along at 100mph, and have to brake for something ahead doing half your speed, you probably won't do an optimal job of it, either braking too hard too early, or not hard enough soon enough.It's not so hard to get it right at 50mph vs 25mph, is it?
Mr Tidy said:
And now they are spending 2 years turning the approaching stretch of the M3 into a smart (apparently a simile for fecked-up) motorway - how long does some paint and a few gantries take FFS!
The drains are all fecked as well, so they are all having to be replaced as well as the emergency refuge points built and a 'few' gantries stuck up!! 
NelsonP said:
Fastdruid said:
Or for that matter the worry that you've been blissfully on cruse control at 60 only to spot at the last moment that the next sign is 50 (which still looks all too much like 60). Is that a change in limit? Has it been 50 for the last umpteen and you've missed them?
....and then you spend the next day or two worrying about an NIP in the post. When if fact you've probably done nothing wrong.This definitely makes driving more stressful than it used to be, and can be very distracting or worse, lead to sudden braking / aggressive driving.
I WISH said:
I just don't get it. Would someone mind explaining how artificially limiting speeds by the use of variable speed limits can possibly result in faster journey times.
Not to mention the danger of accidents caused by drivers having to quickly react to a different limit every other hundred yards or so.
Just seems like a particularly strange form of madness to me.
Oh ..... and I'm guessing that there is a revenue raising dimension to this ...... there usually is.
Just watch this and then say you still don't get it. The effects are exacerbated at higher speeds, which seems logical enough to me.Not to mention the danger of accidents caused by drivers having to quickly react to a different limit every other hundred yards or so.
Just seems like a particularly strange form of madness to me.
Oh ..... and I'm guessing that there is a revenue raising dimension to this ...... there usually is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Suugn-p5C1M#t=19
zebedee said:
NelsonP said:
Fastdruid said:
Or for that matter the worry that you've been blissfully on cruse control at 60 only to spot at the last moment that the next sign is 50 (which still looks all too much like 60). Is that a change in limit? Has it been 50 for the last umpteen and you've missed them?
....and then you spend the next day or two worrying about an NIP in the post. When if fact you've probably done nothing wrong.This definitely makes driving more stressful than it used to be, and can be very distracting or worse, lead to sudden braking / aggressive driving.
50 and 60 limit signs are so close in appearance that unless you're concentrating on them (rather than the road) you can question if you missed the change.
Fastdruid said:
zebedee said:
NelsonP said:
Fastdruid said:
Or for that matter the worry that you've been blissfully on cruse control at 60 only to spot at the last moment that the next sign is 50 (which still looks all too much like 60). Is that a change in limit? Has it been 50 for the last umpteen and you've missed them?
....and then you spend the next day or two worrying about an NIP in the post. When if fact you've probably done nothing wrong.This definitely makes driving more stressful than it used to be, and can be very distracting or worse, lead to sudden braking / aggressive driving.
50 and 60 limit signs are so close in appearance that unless you're concentrating on them (rather than the road) you can question if you missed the change.
zebedee said:
Time to realise that driving at 50 or 60 should never be blissful or considered safe and/or an eyesight test I think. At any speed on a motorway your senses should be on overload, just as they would be on any other road as you pilot 1.5 tons of metal at life-ending speeds. Sorry but these arguments just don't wash.
I think they do wash.Try concentrating hard when there is an external stressor in the environment. Now do the same thing when you are relaxed.
The presence of variable limits and speed cameras, in addition to everything else must increase levels of stress to the driver.
Don't believe me? This is from the University of Maryland...
Effects on Long- and Short-Term Memory. During the stressful event, catecholamines also suppress activity in areas at the front of the brain concerned with short-term memory, concentration, inhibition, and rational thought. This sequence of mental events allows a person to react quickly, either to fight the bear or to flee from it. It also interferes with the ability to handle difficult social or intellectual tasks and behaviors during that time.
Source: Stress | University of Maryland Medical Center http://umm.edu/health/medical/reports/articles/str...
University of Maryland Medical Center
Follow us: @UMMC on Twitter | MedCenter on Facebook
zebedee said:
Fastdruid said:
zebedee said:
NelsonP said:
Fastdruid said:
Or for that matter the worry that you've been blissfully on cruse control at 60 only to spot at the last moment that the next sign is 50 (which still looks all too much like 60). Is that a change in limit? Has it been 50 for the last umpteen and you've missed them?
....and then you spend the next day or two worrying about an NIP in the post. When if fact you've probably done nothing wrong.This definitely makes driving more stressful than it used to be, and can be very distracting or worse, lead to sudden braking / aggressive driving.
50 and 60 limit signs are so close in appearance that unless you're concentrating on them (rather than the road) you can question if you missed the change.
- sigh*
Then you glance at the next one and realise that the its 50 you question the ones before. Is this the first 50? Was the last one 50? Have you passed a bunch of them showing 50.
It's nothing to do with being able to see them and everything to do with the way the human brain works plus that your peripheral vision is actually quite poor, certainly poor enough to wonder if that was really a 5 or a 6 on the sign you just passed when you didn't give it your full attention.
zebedee said:
Time to realise that driving at 50 or 60 should never be blissful or considered safe and/or an eyesight test I think. At any speed on a motorway your senses should be on overload, just as they would be on any other road as you pilot 1.5 tons of metal at life-ending speeds. Sorry but these arguments just don't wash.
Professional drivers covering large distances must be on the verge of meltdown then, what with the sensory overload for hours on end.witko999 said:
zebedee said:
Time to realise that driving at 50 or 60 should never be blissful or considered safe and/or an eyesight test I think. At any speed on a motorway your senses should be on overload, just as they would be on any other road as you pilot 1.5 tons of metal at life-ending speeds. Sorry but these arguments just don't wash.
Professional drivers covering large distances must be on the verge of meltdown then, what with the sensory overload for hours on end.witko999 said:
zebedee said:
Time to realise that driving at 50 or 60 should never be blissful or considered safe and/or an eyesight test I think. At any speed on a motorway your senses should be on overload, just as they would be on any other road as you pilot 1.5 tons of metal at life-ending speeds. Sorry but these arguments just don't wash.
Professional drivers covering large distances must be on the verge of meltdown then, what with the sensory overload for hours on end.There is no place for relaxing behind the wheel of a car and I do question if someone starts ignoring the speed limit signs after passing 50 of them, then what else are they ignoring? The only reason you would start to ignore them is if you are already struggling on processing what else is going on around you (in which case the driver should probably be slowing down anyway) or if they can't be bothered. And if you can't be bothered to concentrate on everything going on in front of you, to the sides and behind you when on the road, then you shouldn't have a driving licence. Simple.
zebedee said:
witko999 said:
zebedee said:
Time to realise that driving at 50 or 60 should never be blissful or considered safe and/or an eyesight test I think. At any speed on a motorway your senses should be on overload, just as they would be on any other road as you pilot 1.5 tons of metal at life-ending speeds. Sorry but these arguments just don't wash.
Professional drivers covering large distances must be on the verge of meltdown then, what with the sensory overload for hours on end.There is no place for relaxing behind the wheel of a car and I do question if someone starts ignoring the speed limit signs after passing 50 of them, then what else are they ignoring? The only reason you would start to ignore them is if you are already struggling on processing what else is going on around you (in which case the driver should probably be slowing down anyway) or if they can't be bothered. And if you can't be bothered to concentrate on everything going on in front of you, to the sides and behind you when on the road, then you shouldn't have a driving licence. Simple.
zebedee said:
There is no place for relaxing behind the wheel of a car and I do question if someone starts ignoring the speed limit signs after passing 50 of them, then what else are they ignoring? The only reason you would start to ignore them is if you are already struggling on processing what else is going on around you (in which case the driver should probably be slowing down anyway) or if they can't be bothered. And if you can't be bothered to concentrate on everything going on in front of you, to the sides and behind you when on the road, then you shouldn't have a driving licence. Simple.
This shows a basic lack of knowledge of how humans work.We humans thrive in variable environments and struggle to concentrate in places
where things stay the same.
Dumb things down sufficiently with dangerously low speed limits and folks get
bored and don't concentrate.
Give them something continuously variable to do and they will (mostly) happily cope.
This is precisely why driving in the UK is a boring task
and driving in Germany is such fun.
Landshark said:
Mr Tidy said:
And now they are spending 2 years turning the approaching stretch of the M3 into a smart (apparently a simile for fecked-up) motorway - how long does some paint and a few gantries take FFS!
The drains are all fecked as well, so they are all having to be replaced as well as the emergency refuge points built and a 'few' gantries stuck up!! Fastdruid said:
zebedee said:
witko999 said:
zebedee said:
Time to realise that driving at 50 or 60 should never be blissful or considered safe and/or an eyesight test I think. At any speed on a motorway your senses should be on overload, just as they would be on any other road as you pilot 1.5 tons of metal at life-ending speeds. Sorry but these arguments just don't wash.
Professional drivers covering large distances must be on the verge of meltdown then, what with the sensory overload for hours on end.There is no place for relaxing behind the wheel of a car and I do question if someone starts ignoring the speed limit signs after passing 50 of them, then what else are they ignoring? The only reason you would start to ignore them is if you are already struggling on processing what else is going on around you (in which case the driver should probably be slowing down anyway) or if they can't be bothered. And if you can't be bothered to concentrate on everything going on in front of you, to the sides and behind you when on the road, then you shouldn't have a driving licence. Simple.
dcb said:
This shows a basic lack of knowledge of how humans work.
We humans thrive in variable environments and struggle to concentrate in places
where things stay the same.
Dumb things down sufficiently with dangerously low speed limits and folks get
bored and don't concentrate.
Give them something continuously variable to do and they will (mostly) happily cope.
This is precisely why driving in the UK is a boring task
and driving in Germany is such fun.
So should we thrive in variable speed limits? Maybe they keep changing the speed limits to wake people up from their middle lane hogging, coffee drinking, make-up applying, book-reading fug of absence of concentration then? If people were just better at driving then so many problems would go away but if part of that poor driving is an ability to concentrate, then the driver needs to work on that just as they do cornering and braking technique in my opinion.We humans thrive in variable environments and struggle to concentrate in places
where things stay the same.
Dumb things down sufficiently with dangerously low speed limits and folks get
bored and don't concentrate.
Give them something continuously variable to do and they will (mostly) happily cope.
This is precisely why driving in the UK is a boring task
and driving in Germany is such fun.
zebedee said:
Fastdruid said:
zebedee said:
witko999 said:
zebedee said:
Time to realise that driving at 50 or 60 should never be blissful or considered safe and/or an eyesight test I think. At any speed on a motorway your senses should be on overload, just as they would be on any other road as you pilot 1.5 tons of metal at life-ending speeds. Sorry but these arguments just don't wash.
Professional drivers covering large distances must be on the verge of meltdown then, what with the sensory overload for hours on end.There is no place for relaxing behind the wheel of a car and I do question if someone starts ignoring the speed limit signs after passing 50 of them, then what else are they ignoring? The only reason you would start to ignore them is if you are already struggling on processing what else is going on around you (in which case the driver should probably be slowing down anyway) or if they can't be bothered. And if you can't be bothered to concentrate on everything going on in front of you, to the sides and behind you when on the road, then you shouldn't have a driving licence. Simple.
In the case of the managed motorway after you've passed maybe 100's of 60's your brain filters them out (especially as you should be concentrating on the road) and a little bit of brain just looks for *changes*.
The 50 limit sign is too similar to 60 so that you *QUESTION* if you didn't notice the change, it's not that you didn't or you can't read it or indeed that you have missed a sign. You are just not sure and *that* is where the worry comes in.
I've just counted them on google maps. 33 gantries I passed every day each way. So say it's been a good week, 60mph all the time and then there is one 50mph limit comes on Friday, that's 300 gantries *all* saying 60mph I'll have passed. Are you suggesting you are so godly and observant that you will check each and every one of those 300 every single time and be 100% confident you have never made a mistake? Especially when the traffic is light and you are not expecting the limit to be changed downwards.
Personally I would have them flash if they were different (downwards) to the previous limit.
Edited by Fastdruid on Wednesday 22 April 15:43
zebedee said:
dcb said:
This shows a basic lack of knowledge of how humans work.
We humans thrive in variable environments and struggle to concentrate in places
where things stay the same.
Dumb things down sufficiently with dangerously low speed limits and folks get
bored and don't concentrate.
Give them something continuously variable to do and they will (mostly) happily cope.
This is precisely why driving in the UK is a boring task
and driving in Germany is such fun.
So should we thrive in variable speed limits? Maybe they keep changing the speed limits to wake people up from their middle lane hogging, coffee drinking, make-up applying, book-reading fug of absence of concentration then? If people were just better at driving then so many problems would go away but if part of that poor driving is an ability to concentrate, then the driver needs to work on that just as they do cornering and braking technique in my opinion.We humans thrive in variable environments and struggle to concentrate in places
where things stay the same.
Dumb things down sufficiently with dangerously low speed limits and folks get
bored and don't concentrate.
Give them something continuously variable to do and they will (mostly) happily cope.
This is precisely why driving in the UK is a boring task
and driving in Germany is such fun.
Whilst some stress is a good thing and keeps us alert, too much is a bad thing as it ruins our ability to concentrate and it puts us into fight or flight mode, responding intuitively (and not necessarily rationally) to the nearest threat. It is that intuitive response (whether to brake lights, speed signs or cameras) that 'forces' us to slam on the anchors.
Of course, this is all theory. I'm sure that the smart systems were tested before implementation to ensure that there wasn't an adverse impact on driver behaviour <sniggers>.
Well, they were probably going to do that until someone showed them how much money could be made from it.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff