HGV vs caravan smash on the M6
Discussion
hornetrider said:
No one grabbed the video in 17 pages?!?!
Ah, jeez!
Theres a youtube link but that's taken down tooAh, jeez!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFeBIxRyxag&t=...
I was hoping to check the photo where the car/van first pulls up alongside the car in front
and where the van driver pulls in ahead
Edited by saaby93 on Tuesday 21st April 10:17
And here: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Idiot-UK-Drivers-Ex...
Other dashcam examples on that page as well.
Other dashcam examples on that page as well.
Spangles said:
hornetrider said:
No one grabbed the video in 17 pages?!?!
Ah, jeez!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ETm9rqOEvAAh, jeez!
Both a pair of idiots. HGV should have let him in on the first go really as otherwise the caravan would have been stranded. However what the caravan driver was thinking on the second dib god only knows. As bad as the one the other week away from the traffic lights.
I see two people pulling in
First the professional van driver who looks like he knows what hes doing and has done this before to try to make up time.
Secondly the guy with the car caravan and family on board, who may have never been here before and doesnt quite know what hes doing, except hes in the wrong lane and is asking for help to move over.
The trouble with these motorway junctions is
a) theyre not like roundabouts so you cant go around and have another go
b) if you miss one it could be 10 miles before you can come off at the next one
c) even if you do there's no guarantee you can turn around there
d) if you do turn around theres no guarantee you wont make the same mistake coming the other way
e) assuming there is an option to take the turning from the other direction
So to many people it's best to try to get off while you can
However if you are caught out it does rely on other drivers being courteous and driving with due care
which it looks like the truck driver was lacking that day
As it looks posters here 50:50 one way or the other I opened a poll
First the professional van driver who looks like he knows what hes doing and has done this before to try to make up time.
Secondly the guy with the car caravan and family on board, who may have never been here before and doesnt quite know what hes doing, except hes in the wrong lane and is asking for help to move over.
The trouble with these motorway junctions is
a) theyre not like roundabouts so you cant go around and have another go
b) if you miss one it could be 10 miles before you can come off at the next one
c) even if you do there's no guarantee you can turn around there
d) if you do turn around theres no guarantee you wont make the same mistake coming the other way
e) assuming there is an option to take the turning from the other direction
So to many people it's best to try to get off while you can
However if you are caught out it does rely on other drivers being courteous and driving with due care
which it looks like the truck driver was lacking that day
As it looks posters here 50:50 one way or the other I opened a poll
Edited by saaby93 on Tuesday 21st April 10:56
Kawasicki said:
I honestly believe that many so called accidents are completely intentional, just like this one.
I often see people not wishing to back down, they would prefer to teach the other party a lesson. Then it all goes wrong, to varying degrees.
I think the proportion of "teach the other party a lesson" accidents is way higher than most would imagine.
Agreed. I was told by my driving instructor on the way home from passing my test many moons ago: 'work on the basis that everyone is an idiot and your job is to get home safely. No point shouting 'I was technically in the right' as you are heading for an impact'. I often see people not wishing to back down, they would prefer to teach the other party a lesson. Then it all goes wrong, to varying degrees.
I think the proportion of "teach the other party a lesson" accidents is way higher than most would imagine.
I still work to this theory and its served me well enough so far.
Riktoid said:
Legally, caravan driver fault.
Morally, lorry driver is a f
king bellend and his vocabulary proves it.
Why not let the guy in? We've all been there or thereabouts.
You only have to listen to the lorry driver to imagine he's a knuckle dragging, window licking neanderthal. Morally, lorry driver is a f
king bellend and his vocabulary proves it. Why not let the guy in? We've all been there or thereabouts.
CRV driver is obviously mentally challenged because he woke up that morning and thought that jumper was a good look.
Edited by Ali_T on Tuesday 21st April 11:42
saaby93 said:
The trouble with these motorway junctions is
a) theyre not like roundabouts so you cant go around and have another go
b) if you miss one it could be 10 miles before you can come off at the next one
c) even if you do there's no guarantee you can turn around there
d) if you do turn around theres no guarantee you wont make the same mistake coming the other way
e) assuming there is an option to take the turning from the other direction
If you assume someone is going to make way for you there's no guarantee you won't collide, in fact a strong possibility that you will collide. Getting to your destination in one piece and preferably without upsetting anyone is more important than saving a few miles. What's the worst thing that could happen if the caravan man had simply carried on to the next junction? He might have ended up in Birmingham, but wherever he was going I'm sure you can get there from Birmingham.a) theyre not like roundabouts so you cant go around and have another go
b) if you miss one it could be 10 miles before you can come off at the next one
c) even if you do there's no guarantee you can turn around there
d) if you do turn around theres no guarantee you wont make the same mistake coming the other way
e) assuming there is an option to take the turning from the other direction
saaby93 said:
So to many people it's best to try to get off while you can
That's the problem.People slating the lorry driver I think are wrong. Yes, he might be 'morally' wrong, but what if he's got 35 tonner up his arse? (We all know how close lorries like to get).
Are you going to start braking to let some plastic shed in, and risk getting hit yourself?
Even if the lorry let the caravan through when it first appeared, it's debatable if he would have made it without crossing the solid line. The caravan should have slowed right down until someone let him in, not just try and force himself in.
I agree that maybe the wagon is mildly dickish, but this collision has been caused by the caravan and caravan alone.
Let's also remember:
[i]133
If you need to change lane, first use your mirrors and if necessary take a quick sideways glance to make sure you will not force another road user to change course or speed. When it is safe to do so, signal to indicate your intentions to other road users and when clear, move over.[/i]
Are you going to start braking to let some plastic shed in, and risk getting hit yourself?
Even if the lorry let the caravan through when it first appeared, it's debatable if he would have made it without crossing the solid line. The caravan should have slowed right down until someone let him in, not just try and force himself in.
I agree that maybe the wagon is mildly dickish, but this collision has been caused by the caravan and caravan alone.
Let's also remember:
[i]133
If you need to change lane, first use your mirrors and if necessary take a quick sideways glance to make sure you will not force another road user to change course or speed. When it is safe to do so, signal to indicate your intentions to other road users and when clear, move over.[/i]
un1corn said:
People slating the lorry driver I think are wrong. Yes, he might be 'morally' wrong, but what if he's got 35 tonner up his arse? (We all know how close lorries like to get).
Are you going to start braking to let some plastic shed in, and risk getting hit yourself?
Even if the lorry let the caravan through when it first appeared, it's debatable if he would have made it without crossing the solid line. The caravan should have slowed right down until someone let him in, not just try and force himself in.
I agree that maybe the wagon is mildly dickish, but this collision has been caused by the caravan and caravan alone.
Let's also remember:
[i]133
If you need to change lane, first use your mirrors and if necessary take a quick sideways glance to make sure you will not force another road user to change course or speed. When it is safe to do so, signal to indicate your intentions to other road users and when clear, move over.[/i]
The only flaw I can see with that is, instead of possibly slowing following traffic down by braking for the caravan he crashed and DID shut the junction, so the hypothetical 35 tonnes up the arse crashed into him anyway.Are you going to start braking to let some plastic shed in, and risk getting hit yourself?
Even if the lorry let the caravan through when it first appeared, it's debatable if he would have made it without crossing the solid line. The caravan should have slowed right down until someone let him in, not just try and force himself in.
I agree that maybe the wagon is mildly dickish, but this collision has been caused by the caravan and caravan alone.
Let's also remember:
[i]133
If you need to change lane, first use your mirrors and if necessary take a quick sideways glance to make sure you will not force another road user to change course or speed. When it is safe to do so, signal to indicate your intentions to other road users and when clear, move over.[/i]
I wrote earlier 'pair of pricks' still stands for me.
saaby93 said:
ooked pretty deliberate to me
He'd decided no way was he going to let the car/caravan in and prefer to have a collision than be courteous.
Isnt that incompetent too
This. It's 50:50 for me. He'd decided no way was he going to let the car/caravan in and prefer to have a collision than be courteous.
Isnt that incompetent too
Day-in, day-out, we all face moments where we choose not to have a collision even when another driver has stupidly/aggressively/blindly created the initial problem.
The caravanner was negligent, for sure, but the HGV driver decided on brinkmanship instead of avoiding an accident.
They both could have avoided it but ultimately it's the caravan man's fault.
In the same way that the dotted line on a slip road onto a motorway means give way if there isn't a safe space to enter, for me the dotted line on an exit slip road means the same thing.
He hadn't got a gap, he hadn't planned ahead and got into the inside lane in plenty of time and was hoping for someone to let him in.
The lorry driver was under no obligation to let him in. Very poor road manners by the lorry driver but maybe he drives an Audi in his leisure time.
In the same way that the dotted line on a slip road onto a motorway means give way if there isn't a safe space to enter, for me the dotted line on an exit slip road means the same thing.
He hadn't got a gap, he hadn't planned ahead and got into the inside lane in plenty of time and was hoping for someone to let him in.
The lorry driver was under no obligation to let him in. Very poor road manners by the lorry driver but maybe he drives an Audi in his leisure time.
andy-xr said:
vonhosen said:
Nobody is saying it wasn't poor planning by the caravaner. The caravaner is potentially committing offences. But none of that absolves the lorry driver from his responsibilities. He fell short of what is expected of him, his driving was below standard too. Instead of trying to teach the caravaner a lesson about their poor driving by using his own poor driving, he should have left it to the authorities to deal with the caravaner if he believes there were offences & provided evidence as a witness. All he has potentially done is left himself open to prosecution & financial loss for no benefit.
This didn't all happen suddenly, it was easily avoidable by either party but they were both just too bloody minded & foolish.
I'm nodding at this one. This didn't all happen suddenly, it was easily avoidable by either party but they were both just too bloody minded & foolish.
Separately, the guy in the lorry really didnt need to be such a w
ker about it, if he'd left the guy to get in, caravan stan would probably have had a better holiday, Trucker Dave probably would have been more productive for the rest of the day and none of the people behind him would have been held up as long as they were. And that woman wouldnt have gone for a jog down the road, which really really confused me.
Edited by andy-xr on Tuesday 21st April 10:01
un1corn said:
People slating the lorry driver I think are wrong. Yes, he might be 'morally' wrong, but what if he's got 35 tonner up his arse? (We all know how close lorries like to get).
Are you going to start braking to let some plastic shed in, and risk getting hit yourself?
Even if the lorry let the caravan through when it first appeared, it's debatable if he would have made it without crossing the solid line. The caravan should have slowed right down until someone let him in, not just try and force himself in.
I agree that maybe the wagon is mildly dickish, but this collision has been caused by the caravan and caravan alone.
Let's also remember:
[i]133
If you need to change lane, first use your mirrors and if necessary take a quick sideways glance to make sure you will not force another road user to change course or speed. When it is safe to do so, signal to indicate your intentions to other road users and when clear, move over.[/i]
There was no secondary impact after the collision, so my guess is no 35 tonner was up the lorry driver's chuff.Are you going to start braking to let some plastic shed in, and risk getting hit yourself?
Even if the lorry let the caravan through when it first appeared, it's debatable if he would have made it without crossing the solid line. The caravan should have slowed right down until someone let him in, not just try and force himself in.
I agree that maybe the wagon is mildly dickish, but this collision has been caused by the caravan and caravan alone.
Let's also remember:
[i]133
If you need to change lane, first use your mirrors and if necessary take a quick sideways glance to make sure you will not force another road user to change course or speed. When it is safe to do so, signal to indicate your intentions to other road users and when clear, move over.[/i]
Europa1 said:
There was no secondary impact after the collision, so my guess is no 35 tonner was up the lorry driver's chuff.
Also they were crawling along at walking pace in an exit queue, not duking it out at 70mph on the open road. If the caners trucker had of eased to a halt, whatever was behind would have eased to a halt also, no risk of collision.
Bodo said:
Here's another https://youtu.be/rAGNDfXSRHY
Bonus points for having the caravan bursting on camera.
Is the caravan equivalent of "It will buff out" actually " I bit of Mr Sheen will sort that right " ?Bonus points for having the caravan bursting on camera.
Riktoid said:
Legally, caravan driver fault.
Morally, lorry driver is a fking bellend and his vocabulary proves it.
Why not let the guy in? We've all been there or thereabouts.
According to vonhosen, who knows about these things, and if I understood him correctly, the truck driver is legally also at fault for failing to avoid an avoidable accident.Morally, lorry driver is a f
king bellend and his vocabulary proves it. Why not let the guy in? We've all been there or thereabouts.
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