HGV vs caravan smash on the M6

[Mave]

Willy Nilly said:

Mave said:

Martin4x4 said:

The HGV was in the correct lane and had the right of way. The Caravan driver was trying to queue jump and push in and came a cropper anybody that thinks he was in the right is also moron that needs to read the highway code.

Nobody has said the Honda driver was in the right. But if you don't think the HGV driver was also in the wrong, then it's you that needs to read the highway code.

The HGV didn't have to give way to the CRV, he had priority over the CRV.

The big rule of the highway code. Written at the front. Takes precedence over everything that follows;

"always give way if it can help to avoid an incident"

So yes, if it would have avoided an incident, he should have given way. Doesn't matter whether he had priority, whether the CRV driver was being a bell end, whether he had been queuing for a mile and was hacked off. If you knowingly and deliberately drive your vehicle into a crash which you could have avoided, you are in the wrong.

[Matthen]

RobM77 said:

How do you know the caravan driver wa deliberately trying to jump the queue? He may have been, but it's just as likely he's on holiday (pretty obvious that actually!) and at a junction he doesn't know and realised at the last minute he needed to come off. He wasn't crossing any solid white lines or anything and was indicating. He could have been trying for ages. Two idiots there I'm afraid, not one. Caravan guy does something dangerous, lorry driver sees it happening and does nothing whatsoever to avoid it, and what's more, can't see the error of his ways and swears at the other guy - what a rude prick.

I agree, he probably wasn't deliberately jumping the queue. More likely he'd been sat in the middle lane for the past 300 miles and only at that point woke up and realised he needed to leave. Complete numbskull. Lorry driver is just as big a prat however.

[RobM77]

Martin4x4 said:

The Caravan driver was trying to queue jump and push in

How do you know that?!? The poor guy might have been trying to get across for ages, or he might have suddenly worked out that he needed that junction, or yes, he might have been trying to queue jump. You don't know. You can't just invent reasons for things happening without evidence! (unless you're religious, but that's another discussion for another time!).

Nobody's pretending the caravan guy didn't cause the accident, but the lorry driver was either not paying attention or knowingly allowed an accident to happen, both of which are also dangerous driving. The fact that he then posted this video, presumably proud of what happened, just makes him a total tool to be honest, and in my mind worse than the caravan guy who simply got desperate and a bit pushy - anyone who has control of a big heavy vehicle and doesn't brake when he thinks he's about to hit a family car is an idiot - anyone who actually accelerates into am accident is inexcusably aggressive and plain stupid.

[Vipers]

At the end of the day, caravan man won't try that again. He put himself and passenger in considerable danger, no nookie for him for a while

Probably wrote his caravan and holiday off as well, even more no nookie for him

[MGJohn]

NoNeed said:

I pass this junction everyday and can safely say that if you get that far in the wrong lane you shouldn't be driving at all. The M5 is split with a dotted line for about 1 mile and lanes are signposted for several miles from before the previous junction.


My conclusion is caravan man should not be on the road at all ever again. Lorry man needs anger management.I hope the insurance companies concerned see the video and refuse to pay out to either of them as it was clearly no accident.

You drive it every day so local knowledge plays a part. A stranger to any area may get caught out. Even so, when new to any area or driving on a long journey on roads and Motorways strange to you, best to have a good look at the route before leaving. Even an old road map atlas helps. Then you can identify any possible problems and prepare for it well in advance. Driving blindly by SatNav can cause all kinds of problems. Even fatalities by blindly following SatNav with mind in neutral and eyes elsewhere.... 'appens.

The very sad thing about this video footage is that such behaviour is far from rare. Time and again I see near misses or have to take action to avoid other liberty taking road users. Light commercial drivers are worse offenders based on what I see most ties I'm out and about behind the steering wheel. Bad attitudes rather than bad driving. Deliberately causing problems rather than genuine mistakes for whatever reason.

Both drivers to blame 50-50 and the fact that the commercial driver appears to press on when a collision is a certainty is typical of far too many folks chasing money on our roads.

Even if neither are brought to book for this really bad road behaviour, the lengthy aggravation of all the collision aftermath mullarkey should encourage both to think more clearly next time a situation like that shapes up again.

[ging84]

lorry driver makes me laugh
i've got it all on camera! you're in the st now.... etc

did he honestly think he would be able to show the video to rational people, and them to turn around and say, yeah that was totally the other guy's fault, nothing you could have done

[Mr Tidy]

RobM77 said:

Put yourself in his shoes. He may not have known he had to come off there to get where he was going. He might be driving from one end of the country to the other, and in typical UK road sign style, you don't get given 'M6 North' or something simple like that, it just gives a local town you've never heard of. It was late, but not last second stuff, and he was indicating clearly and well in advance. i'm not saying he's in the right, because he moved into a non existent gap, but for the lorry driver to assume the caravan tower is trying to cut in and block him is totally stupid, short sighted and aggressive - it's people like the caravan guy who make the roads dodgy, but it's people like the lorry driver who complete the picture and make the roads downright dangerous - it takes two to tango.

I couldn't put myself in his jumper, never mind his shoes!
All he had to do was go to the next junction (they are pretty close on that stretch of the M6) and come back - why does he seem to think everyone else has to get out of his way? Ft!
Lorry driver could have let him in; while not condoning what he did maybe Mr CRV was the last straw that day!
At the end of the day if CRV driver didn't make the roads dodgy none of this would happen.
Must admit though that if I was in my car I would grudgingly let him in, but when I drove a Sainsburys Sprinter I may (as in would) not have - T**t!

Edited by Mr Tidy on Wednesday 22 April 01:05

[getawayturtle]

Vipers said:

At the end of the day, caravan man won't try that again. He put himself and passenger in considerable danger, no nookie for him for a while

Probably wrote his caravan and holiday off as well, even more no nookie for him

Hopefully next years premium will price him out of caravan dragging altogether.

[longshot]

Perhaps when the truck driver was calling him a wker, he gave him the hand sign too and caravan man mistook it for him inviting him in.

[With these feet]

Willy Nilly said:

The HGV didn't have to give way to the CRV, he had priority over the CRV. The CRV pushed in and lost, it will be a seminal moment in the driving career of the CRV driver. See how he never again pushes into queues of traffic, particularly when the traffic in the queue is quite a bit bigger than he is.

This is exactly why the incident turned into an accident.

"I dont need to let you in so Im not, I will physically prevent you from pulling on front of me because I have right of way".

How do you know that the CRV driver hadnt been indicating and trying to get in for 100's of yards? We dont, we all assume he is jumping the queue. Though in reality think about it, how many caravans do you see being driven by doddery old bds going more than 45?

The removal of the video is the truck driver having time to rethink his actions and see the reactions of others which has not gone as he expected. I wonder if this is his own camera and not fitted by his work - interesting if its his and not the employers...

[Mave]

Mr Tidy said:

Lorry driver could have let him in; while not condoning what he did maybe Mr CRV was the last straw that day!
At the end of the day if CRV driver didn't make the roads dodgy none of this would happen.

If the lorry driver has got to the point where someone trying to push in is "the last straw" before he deliberately allows a crash to happen, then maybe he's not fit to be on the road

And maybe idiots deliberately allowing avoidable situations to deteriorate just to prove a point, to look for an opportunity to take the moral high ground, to post indignant videos on you tube, are also guilty of making the roads dodgy.

[Keep it stiff]

It's about time they reopened the 2nd south-bound lane on the M5, it has been closed for a couple of months and both the tail back for the exit and the knock-on to the M6 south-bound lanes is absolutely appalling. I use this junction every week, the congestion has added an hour+ to my journey and there is no sign of any urgency to get the repairs finished and the lane reopened. And on the issue of the collision, how Mr Caravan thought he was going to get into that gap is beyond me!

[kiseca]

Willy Nilly said:

Mave said:

Martin4x4 said:

The HGV was in the correct lane and had the right of way. The Caravan driver was trying to queue jump and push in and came a cropper anybody that thinks he was in the right is also moron that needs to read the highway code.

Nobody has said the Honda driver was in the right. But if you don't think the HGV driver was also in the wrong, then it's you that needs to read the highway code.

The HGV didn't have to give way to the CRV, he had priority over the CRV. The CRV pushed in and lost, it will be a seminal moment in the driving career of the CRV driver. See how he never again pushes into queues of traffic, particularly when the traffic in the queue is quite a bit bigger than he is.

He did have to give way. By intentionally driving into an accident he could have avoided, he broke the law. Vonhosen has explained this in detail in a number of previous posts. The actions of the caravan driver have no influence on this result. If the truck driver had tried to avoid him but failed, he'd be blameless. The caravan driver also broke the law and should not have tried to change lanes, but in the cases of both drivers involved, the actions of the one do not excuse the actions of the other.

Both drivers are in the wrong.

[DonkeyApple]

It's interesting to see a thread where almost everyone is in precise agreement as to which parties are in the wrong and why. Strange that the thread is so long.

What has interested me is the fact that it seems like the caravan hits the side of the truck some time before that final and baffling T-boning event. I'm sure you can hear the car or the caravan hitting the side and yet the truck driver doesn't even flinch, deviate or make a noise about it as if he is absolutely determined to not back down and have his manhood challenged. While at the same time the old boy you'd think would have noticed he'd already hit the side of the truck and give up at that point?

Or am I hearing things?

[RobM77]

DonkeyApple said:

It's interesting to see a thread where almost everyone is in precise agreement as to which parties are in the wrong and why. Strange that the thread is so long.

What has interested me is the fact that it seems like the caravan hits the side of the truck some time before that final and baffling T-boning event. I'm sure you can hear the car or the caravan hitting the side and yet the truck driver doesn't even flinch, deviate or make a noise about it as if he is absolutely determined to not back down and have his manhood challenged. While at the same time the old boy you'd think would have noticed he'd already hit the side of the truck and give up at that point?

Or am I hearing things?

I heard that too, and it's why the thread is so long! Yes, the caravan guy caused the accident, but the truck driver seemed to actually want to crash!

[With these feet]

Here's how I see it in an everyday scenario.
Driver 1 wants to pull out of a T junction and turn right onto the main road.
Driver 2 is on the main road approaching from the left, wanting to turn right off of the main road.
Driver 1 sees no traffic from his right, only driver 2 approaching from his left, and decided to pull out a little, blocking the traffic from the right to allow him to get out. In doing so he partially blocks driver 2's way.

Driver 2 can either:

Allow the guy to pull out.
Attempt to drive around him.
Drive straight into him.

From what some of you are saying, the last option, like the option the truck driver took, would be fine.

[KrazyIvan]

Why is this thread still going.

The crv driver caused the accident and I would be amazed if his insurance didnt get landed with a 100% of the bill.

The truck driver is a moron, and I suspect his boss had a few choice words with him.

As for the theory abut Mr CRV just missing his junction, on balance of probabilities that is unlikely. For that to be the case he would have had to
A) miss all the signs, and that junction is well signed.
B) not questioned the long queue in lane 1.
C) Not have used one of the busiest junction on the uks motorway network.
D) Not own a Sat nav telling him a mile earlier this was his junction.
E) Had no idea where he was.

It is much more likely he was jumping the queue.

[heebeegeetee]

RobM77 said:

How do you know that?!? The poor guy might have been trying to get across for ages, or he might have suddenly worked out that he needed that junction, or yes, he might have been trying to queue jump. You don't know. You can't just invent reasons for things happening without evidence! (unless you're religious, but that's another discussion for another time!).

Nobody's pretending the caravan guy didn't cause the accident, but the lorry driver was either not paying attention or knowingly allowed an accident to happen, both of which are also dangerous driving. The fact that he then posted this video, presumably proud of what happened, just makes him a total tool to be honest, and in my mind worse than the caravan guy who simply got desperate and a bit pushy - anyone who has control of a big heavy vehicle and doesn't brake when he thinks he's about to hit a family car is an idiot - anyone who actually accelerates into am accident is inexcusably aggressive and plain stupid.

Rob, those junctions in the West Midlands grind to a halt, as does the motorway network in the area, every peak period because of people like that caravan man. The M5, which they're going onto, is signposted for miles. I'll say again: the network pretty much stops, because of people like the caravanner (and the minibus driver ahead of him).

Another example further afield, is the M40 south at J9. Each peak period sees a long queue of traffic leaving the M40 to join the A34, but thanks to the prolific numbers of drivers such as caravan man, it's actually lane 3 of the M40 that comes to a halt first.

I've seen other drivers simply stop in a flowing live lane because the lane to their left is full of stationary traffic and they want to join it. They don't care about the traffic behind that suddenly has to contend with a vehicle stopped in a live lane. Authorities have had to spend millions to make the roads safer whilst these people are making them as unsafe as they can.

These people know what they're doing and they're incredibly selfish.

I join the A38M in central Brum most evenings, and it is normally near stationary. It has four lanes, lanes 1&2 join the m'ways and lanes 3&4 continue on the A38 which is where I am going. Every evening lanes 3&4 are stationary simply because of the queue jumpers who join 1&2 at the last second and stop (or almost stop) to do so. They don't give a fig for anyone else.

For those who say the trucker drove into a collision, is that really whats happening here?


If the truck stops, I can't see that caravan outfit getting through there. I realise he could have let him in earlier, but this is where the collision happens.

[DonkeyApple]

RobM77 said:

DonkeyApple said:

It's interesting to see a thread where almost everyone is in precise agreement as to which parties are in the wrong and why. Strange that the thread is so long.

What has interested me is the fact that it seems like the caravan hits the side of the truck some time before that final and baffling T-boning event. I'm sure you can hear the car or the caravan hitting the side and yet the truck driver doesn't even flinch, deviate or make a noise about it as if he is absolutely determined to not back down and have his manhood challenged. While at the same time the old boy you'd think would have noticed he'd already hit the side of the truck and give up at that point?

Or am I hearing things?

I heard that too, and it's why the thread is so long! Yes, the caravan guy caused the accident, but the truck driver seemed to actually want to crash!

It's definitely, as everyone is saying, a meeting of absolute morons regardless. The caravan driver is clearly a retired civil servant judging by his inability to understand how a simple process works and having spent a lifetime of not being responsible for anything he probably forgot that it was his caravan and car he destroying rather than someone else's. . The truck driver is clearly one of those downtrodden, angry loser types whose wife wears the trousers so he needs to prove what little masculinity he has by speeding up and not letting a fellow idiot in who's made yet another error of judgement

But, if that noise early on is the caravan side swiping the van it's really surprising that there is no deviation or verbal reaction from the truck driver. That almost seems abnormal mental behaviour to me?

[Vipers]

I am indicating so I have the right of way, how many times have we heard that.

I was at the lights once, going straight over a box junction, car facing me was indicating right, as the lights changed I pulled away, the other driver started to turn across my bows, conversation went like this, me kicking off.

"What are you doing"

"I am turning right"

"I have the right of way"

"No you don't I do"

"How do you work that out"

"I got on the box first"

They are all out there somewhere, be safe guys.