HGV vs caravan smash on the M6
Discussion
I was once driving an Army TM (a big old slab fronted truck), on the Peripherique in Paris on the way to an exercise in the Massif Central, when it suddenly ground to a halt in the middle of rush hour.
I checked the gauges automatically, but knew that i'd only filled up a couple of hours ago, and so discounted that as a reason for my sudden stop.
On releasing my seat belt and peering over the dashboard, I found a red Renault 5, that was wedged sideways across the front of my wagon.
There was no discernible impact, no warning at all, just somebody who had attempted to cut in front of me with minimal room.
The Gendarmes appeared and luckily enough there was a fully manned fire engine alongside, and the Gendarmes just ordered the firemen to essentially pick up the Renault and toss it on to the pavement and then got the traffic moving again.
Oddly enough, I never heard anything further about the incident.
I checked the gauges automatically, but knew that i'd only filled up a couple of hours ago, and so discounted that as a reason for my sudden stop.
On releasing my seat belt and peering over the dashboard, I found a red Renault 5, that was wedged sideways across the front of my wagon.
There was no discernible impact, no warning at all, just somebody who had attempted to cut in front of me with minimal room.
The Gendarmes appeared and luckily enough there was a fully manned fire engine alongside, and the Gendarmes just ordered the firemen to essentially pick up the Renault and toss it on to the pavement and then got the traffic moving again.
Oddly enough, I never heard anything further about the incident.
Issi said:
I was once driving an Army TM (a big old slab fronted truck), on the Peripherique in Paris on the way to an exercise in the Massif Central, when it suddenly ground to a halt in the middle of rush hour.
I checked the gauges automatically, but knew that i'd only filled up a couple of hours ago, and so discounted that as a reason for my sudden stop.
On releasing my seat belt and peering over the dashboard, I found a red Renault 5, that was wedged sideways across the front of my wagon.
One of these?I checked the gauges automatically, but knew that i'd only filled up a couple of hours ago, and so discounted that as a reason for my sudden stop.
On releasing my seat belt and peering over the dashboard, I found a red Renault 5, that was wedged sideways across the front of my wagon.
Surprised you didn't crush the Renault!
GC8 said:
heebeegeetee said:
The problem with your poll imo is that you are addressing the question to people who might never be in the position of the trucker.
As I've said on many threads before, the position of an hgv driver and of a car driver is completely and totally different, an the way you are treated by other road users is *completely* different, and simply no comparison can be made between their respective experiences imo.
I used to truck up and down the m'ways in that region, I did so on one particular contract just before giving up on trucking some 6 years ago or so. I would do a a round trip from Castle Bromwich to Rubery in the daytime using the M6 and M5 and junction of the two.
The way other drivers would behave at every single junction, at each slip road on and off, was so bad that I took to moving into lane 2 before each junction just so that I can maintain my own safety and speed. The dive-bombing off, the robbing of forward space, the pushing in in front when all space has already been lost (and there is nothing behind me), then the forcing on to the m'way instead of merging, and, rather like the caravanner, the absolute insistence in having the tarmac that you're already occupying, seriously I say to you guys, until you've seen and experienced for a period of time yourselves, you have no idea what it's like or how you'd behave.
Now, the trucker in the video might not have been pushed around all day and all week, or he might have been. Indeed he might not even be an hgv driver and in fact his vehicle seems to have a bit of room to move within his lane so might not even be more than a van, I don't know.
I just know that the numerous pages on two threads and the poll are all populated by people who drive cars, and thus have opinions that really don't matter or count in this regard imo.
I'm not in any way defending the trucker, for all I know he might be a total a
hole who relishes in causing trouble, I don't know, but I do know that I can understand someone who just every once in a blue moon, gets absolutely titssed right off with being pushed around as though he doesn't count for anything. 
I don't disagree with anything written here. It will fall on car-only drivers deaf ears, though.As I've said on many threads before, the position of an hgv driver and of a car driver is completely and totally different, an the way you are treated by other road users is *completely* different, and simply no comparison can be made between their respective experiences imo.
I used to truck up and down the m'ways in that region, I did so on one particular contract just before giving up on trucking some 6 years ago or so. I would do a a round trip from Castle Bromwich to Rubery in the daytime using the M6 and M5 and junction of the two.
The way other drivers would behave at every single junction, at each slip road on and off, was so bad that I took to moving into lane 2 before each junction just so that I can maintain my own safety and speed. The dive-bombing off, the robbing of forward space, the pushing in in front when all space has already been lost (and there is nothing behind me), then the forcing on to the m'way instead of merging, and, rather like the caravanner, the absolute insistence in having the tarmac that you're already occupying, seriously I say to you guys, until you've seen and experienced for a period of time yourselves, you have no idea what it's like or how you'd behave.
Now, the trucker in the video might not have been pushed around all day and all week, or he might have been. Indeed he might not even be an hgv driver and in fact his vehicle seems to have a bit of room to move within his lane so might not even be more than a van, I don't know.
I just know that the numerous pages on two threads and the poll are all populated by people who drive cars, and thus have opinions that really don't matter or count in this regard imo.
I'm not in any way defending the trucker, for all I know he might be a total a
hole who relishes in causing trouble, I don't know, but I do know that I can understand someone who just every once in a blue moon, gets absolutely titssed right off with being pushed around as though he doesn't count for anything. .Issi said:
I was once driving an Army TM (a big old slab fronted truck), on the Peripherique in Paris on the way to an exercise in the Massif Central, when it suddenly ground to a halt in the middle of rush hour.
I checked the gauges automatically, but knew that i'd only filled up a couple of hours ago, and so discounted that as a reason for my sudden stop.
On releasing my seat belt and peering over the dashboard, I found a red Renault 5, that was wedged sideways across the front of my wagon.
There was no discernible impact, no warning at all, just somebody who had attempted to cut in front of me with minimal room.
The Gendarmes appeared and luckily enough there was a fully manned fire engine alongside, and the Gendarmes just ordered the firemen to essentially pick up the Renault and toss it on to the pavement and then got the traffic moving again.
Oddly enough, I never heard anything further about the incident.
What about the caravan I checked the gauges automatically, but knew that i'd only filled up a couple of hours ago, and so discounted that as a reason for my sudden stop.
On releasing my seat belt and peering over the dashboard, I found a red Renault 5, that was wedged sideways across the front of my wagon.
There was no discernible impact, no warning at all, just somebody who had attempted to cut in front of me with minimal room.
The Gendarmes appeared and luckily enough there was a fully manned fire engine alongside, and the Gendarmes just ordered the firemen to essentially pick up the Renault and toss it on to the pavement and then got the traffic moving again.
Oddly enough, I never heard anything further about the incident.
All that jazz said:
You're wasting your time lads. Saaby93 is on a witch hunt and won't let it drop until everyone agrees with him in this thread. From his posts in other threads (particularly any that involve merging from 2 lanes to 1) it's abundantly clear that he's never read a copy of the Highway Code and is generally a bit of a thick .
Jeez there's no helping some people .
I asked what would help solve the issue and listened to what Noneed a typical road user there, was saying in the other thread. I'd like to hear more from Mr Grimnasty too.
I quoted some relevant overiding bits from the HC
'Always give way if it can help to avoid an incident' - when did either do that?
'The rules in The Highway Code do not give you the right of way in any circumstance'
'be patient; remember that anyone can make a mistake'
'try to be understanding if other road users cause problems; they may be inexperienced or not know the area well'
'do not allow yourself to become agitated or involved if someone is behaving badly on the road. This will only make the situation worse. Pull over, calm down and, when you feel relaxed, continue your journey'
'slow down and hold back if a road user pulls out into your path at a junction. Allow them to get clear. Do not over-react by driving too close behind to intimidate them'
So how could I not have read it?
https://www.gov.uk/general-rules-all-drivers-rider...
https://www.gov.uk/general-rules-all-drivers-rider...
And I'm particularly not on a witch hunt. If I was I'd need at least a large scales and a duck
I'd suggest that in this case the lorry driver will be found to be at fault (ref' the original post video - not the HGV from the traffic lights). The dash cam evidence will work against him.
Question M'lud; Faced with the evidence of the unfolding situation, what would a normal person have done?
The answer is that they would have braked.
So, Mr Professional HGV driver, can you explain why chose not to brake?
HGV at fault. Case closed.
Question M'lud; Faced with the evidence of the unfolding situation, what would a normal person have done?
The answer is that they would have braked.
So, Mr Professional HGV driver, can you explain why chose not to brake?
HGV at fault. Case closed.
Edited by dfen5 on Sunday 26th April 10:08
saaby93 said:
Jeez there's no helping some people
I asked what would help solve the issue and listened to what Noneed a typical road user there, was saying in the other thread. I'd like to hear more from Mr Grimnasty too.
I quoted some relevant overiding bits from the HC
'Always give way if it can help to avoid an incident' - when did either do that?
'The rules in The Highway Code do not give you the right of way in any circumstance'
'be patient; remember that anyone can make a mistake'
'try to be understanding if other road users cause problems; they may be inexperienced or not know the area well'
'do not allow yourself to become agitated or involved if someone is behaving badly on the road. This will only make the situation worse. Pull over, calm down and, when you feel relaxed, continue your journey'
'slow down and hold back if a road user pulls out into your path at a junction. Allow them to get clear. Do not over-react by driving too close behind to intimidate them'
So how could I not have read it?
https://www.gov.uk/general-rules-all-drivers-rider...
https://www.gov.uk/general-rules-all-drivers-rider...
And I'm particularly not on a witch hunt. If I was I'd need at least a large scales and a duck
I asked what would help solve the issue and listened to what Noneed a typical road user there, was saying in the other thread. I'd like to hear more from Mr Grimnasty too.
I quoted some relevant overiding bits from the HC
'Always give way if it can help to avoid an incident' - when did either do that?
'The rules in The Highway Code do not give you the right of way in any circumstance'
'be patient; remember that anyone can make a mistake'
'try to be understanding if other road users cause problems; they may be inexperienced or not know the area well'
'do not allow yourself to become agitated or involved if someone is behaving badly on the road. This will only make the situation worse. Pull over, calm down and, when you feel relaxed, continue your journey'
'slow down and hold back if a road user pulls out into your path at a junction. Allow them to get clear. Do not over-react by driving too close behind to intimidate them'
So how could I not have read it?
https://www.gov.uk/general-rules-all-drivers-rider...
https://www.gov.uk/general-rules-all-drivers-rider...
And I'm particularly not on a witch hunt. If I was I'd need at least a large scales and a duck
Just give it up, seriously. You've made your point(s) about 200 times now. We hear you. A large number of us don't agree with you and never will so stop continuing to force your opinions upon us. Just get a life and move on to the next topic. This one is done.
dfen5 said:
I'd suggest that in this case the lorry driver will be found to be at fault (ref' the original post video - not the HGV from the traffic lights). The dash cam evidence will work against him.
Question M'lud; Faced with the evidence of the unfolding situation, what would a normal person have done?
The answer is that they would have braked.
So, Mr Professional HGV driver, can you explain why chose not to brake?
HGV at fault. Case closed.
I'd put blame 50/50 with the video, all on the CRV without the video.Question M'lud; Faced with the evidence of the unfolding situation, what would a normal person have done?
The answer is that they would have braked.
So, Mr Professional HGV driver, can you explain why chose not to brake?
HGV at fault. Case closed.
Edited by dfen5 on Sunday 26th April 10:08
So. Mr caravan, can you explain why you chose to sideswipe the truck? A normal person wouldn't do that.
LocoCoco said:
I'd put blame 50/50 with the video, all on the CRV without the video.
So. Mr caravan, can you explain why you chose to sideswipe the truck? A normal person wouldn't do that.
I think there's a proven, by the video, difference in intent. The caravan intends to merge, the lorry driver intends to block and leave the shed-dragger in a precarious situation - fast moving traffic approaching etc.So. Mr caravan, can you explain why you chose to sideswipe the truck? A normal person wouldn't do that.
I reckon the HGV's insurers will be ripped a new one if they try to defend that.
getawayturtle said:
Issi said:
I was once driving an Army TM (a big old slab fronted truck), on the Peripherique in Paris on the way to an exercise in the Massif Central, when it suddenly ground to a halt in the middle of rush hour.
I checked the gauges automatically, but knew that i'd only filled up a couple of hours ago, and so discounted that as a reason for my sudden stop.
On releasing my seat belt and peering over the dashboard, I found a red Renault 5, that was wedged sideways across the front of my wagon.
One of these?I checked the gauges automatically, but knew that i'd only filled up a couple of hours ago, and so discounted that as a reason for my sudden stop.
On releasing my seat belt and peering over the dashboard, I found a red Renault 5, that was wedged sideways across the front of my wagon.
Surprised you didn't crush the Renault!
Issi said:
getawayturtle said:
Issi said:
I was once driving an Army TM (a big old slab fronted truck), on the Peripherique in Paris on the way to an exercise in the Massif Central, when it suddenly ground to a halt in the middle of rush hour.
I checked the gauges automatically, but knew that i'd only filled up a couple of hours ago, and so discounted that as a reason for my sudden stop.
On releasing my seat belt and peering over the dashboard, I found a red Renault 5, that was wedged sideways across the front of my wagon.
One of these?I checked the gauges automatically, but knew that i'd only filled up a couple of hours ago, and so discounted that as a reason for my sudden stop.
On releasing my seat belt and peering over the dashboard, I found a red Renault 5, that was wedged sideways across the front of my wagon.
Surprised you didn't crush the Renault!
https://youtu.be/8n7m_7e8vxE
https://youtu.be/miI7bZOgczk
https://youtu.be/8ZfxbI7TZRg
https://youtu.be/NN651j5kp4k
Not as touching as clips with bursting caravans though
All that jazz said:
Just give it up, seriously. You've made your point(s) about 200 times now. We hear you. A large number of us don't agree with you and never will so stop continuing to force your opinions upon us. Just get a life and move on to the next topic. This one is done.
I started to think he was watching a different clip
Why you shouldn't give way to a shed puller. Many moons ago we were driving around the west coast of Scotland, a shed puller was coming our way, so we being nice people pulled over to give him some room.
Unfortunately the verges were quite soft as you can see. We unloaded most of the diving equipment, but to no avail. We couldn't get our Bedford RL, even with four wheel drive low ratio, we couldn't get out.
In those days four wheel drive didn't lock the diffs, it only engaged all axels, so one wheel on each could spin, which it did. Luckily we found a local farmer with a tractor.
Unfortunately the verges were quite soft as you can see. We unloaded most of the diving equipment, but to no avail. We couldn't get our Bedford RL, even with four wheel drive low ratio, we couldn't get out.
In those days four wheel drive didn't lock the diffs, it only engaged all axels, so one wheel on each could spin, which it did. Luckily we found a local farmer with a tractor.
NoNeed said:
All that jazz said:
Just give it up, seriously. You've made your point(s) about 200 times now. We hear you. A large number of us don't agree with you and never will so stop continuing to force your opinions upon us. Just get a life and move on to the next topic. This one is done.
I started to think he was watching a different clip
PorkInsider said:
Yes, but he's used the term 'duty of care' loads of times, so surely that negates any differing opinions. It's almost like 'end of' isn't it?
The problem with that term in this instance is we have no idea what the lorry was carrying or how far up his rear a petrol tanker was as things can get close when slowish moving, maybe a sideswipe was the best option. N ot that I think the lorry had an option for the intial scrape.NoNeed said:
PorkInsider said:
Yes, but he's used the term 'duty of care' loads of times, so surely that negates any differing opinions. It's almost like 'end of' isn't it?
The problem with that term in this instance is we have no idea what the lorry was carrying or how far up his rear a petrol tanker was as things can get close when slowish moving, maybe a sideswipe was the best option. N ot that I think the lorry had an option for the intial scrape.And that's without even considering the fact that 'duty of care' isn't just some catch-all phrase to be used randomly as seen fit by anyone wishing to convince us they're correct.
As with all these cases, the full facts are not there (such as his dis-ability to get in the signposted slip road much earlier), to make a true determination over whether the CRV driver was the architect of the scenario - that subsequently unfolded.
However, I do wonder about some the contributors on here, and their affinity with the sort of people who wait until the last second to join a busy slip road.
However, I do wonder about some the contributors on here, and their affinity with the sort of people who wait until the last second to join a busy slip road.
Vipers said:
LocoCoco said:
I'd put blame 50/50 with the video, all on the CRV without the video.
So. Mr caravan, can you explain why you chose to sideswipe the truck? A normal person wouldn't do that.
But he isn't a normal person, he is a caravaner m'lud. So. Mr caravan, can you explain why you chose to sideswipe the truck? A normal person wouldn't do that.
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