RE: Lotus 'Small Car Platform' production landmark

[otolith]

jl34 said:

I love N/A engines, but there isnt anything suitable to really make this car go as fast as the customer demands for £30-£40K with the packaging available. If you drive a VX220 Turbo with a good map , you will be staggered how capable it is

Oh, I know how capable they are, they're bloody quick with a remap. I just don't enjoy the characteristics of turbocharged engines and wouldn't want one in something like an Elise.

[zebedee]

jl34 said:

Cant think of anything worse than BMW buying up Lotus after the hash they made at running Rover group. Plus how did Tata make a success of Landrover and BMW couldn't? Reason is a board of directors that dont understand the brand or customers and try to shape into the same mould as their own.

They just need to fit this car with a decent engine, the best of the bunch, the VX220 Turbo was a supercar slayer when mildly mapped. I think a cheap off the shelf turbo unit, such as the ford ecoboost (like the zenos) would be great boost in performance

the vx220 turbo slayed itself quite often too - simple mid engined car with fine chassis poise suddenly getting a big boost of power when already on the limit = straight to the scene of the accident

[Matt Bird]

otolith said:

About a quarter of that volume would be Teslas or VX220s.

Good point, I'll add a note to the story now. Not included in the press release surprisingly enough...


Matt

[saaby93]

jl34 said:

Cant think of anything worse than BMW buying up Lotus after the hash they made at running Rover group. Plus how did Tata make a success of Landrover and BMW couldn't?

BMW got Mini out of it, the 1 series and the 4WD engineering.
They got want they wanted out of it then parked the rest

[otolith]

Matt Bird said:

Good point, I'll add a note to the story now. Not included in the press release surprisingly enough...

See the comment above - not clear whether that 40k figure includes them or not.

[Europa1]

Boydie88 said:

Al U said:

Genuinely didn't know modern Europa's existed! I have done a bit of research but can't seem to find much, how man were sold, why they stopped making them etc. Can anyone tell me more?

A VX220 Turbo in drag. Got slammed for being a bit ugly on launch but it's grown on me over time. The squeaks, knocks and rattles are starting to get to me after 4 years of VX daily use so I might well look at the slightly more 'GT' Europa next.

Do it! I loved mine. When I saw the launch photos, I was sceptical but they look much better in the flesh, and when they upgraded the interior I took the plunge and bought one. Secondhand prices are starting to strengthen. I heard somewhere they only sold about 45 in the UK. AO57 CNA, where are you now?!

[moribund]

Did anyone else see the "off the record" comments in Autocar the other week from the Tobias Moers, head of AMG? He thought that Lotus would make a good pairing with Aston Martin. He was also very dismissive of Jean-Marc Gales (unfairly I think given his plans and actions so far).

[BibsTLF]

otolith said:

Matt Bird said:

Good point, I'll add a note to the story now. Not included in the press release surprisingly enough...

See the comment above - not clear whether that 40k figure includes them or not.

BibsTLF said:

The 40,000 doesn't include anything other than Elise, Exige, Europa, 2-Eleven and 340R.

Lotus built 7,700 cars for GM (VX220/Speedster) and 2,500 cars for Tesla (Roadster) and they're not included in this figure. It doesn't include any of the one or two-offs either such as the Elise Type 115 Racer or the Pininfarina Enjoy Concept etc. If you did count them, the total would be well over 50,000...

[jl34]

Agreed some of the stage 4 cars running 350+ ft/lb torque can be a bit of a challenge ! but a well mapped stage 2 car has a really nice smooth power transition that was just lovely. The standard car also had quite a spiky map in the mid range, but with modern turbo's they could be made better still. The only thing they really lack is a nice exhaust note, but on the plus side you can get some nice breathing a popping noises from the turbo. Its the best way to get a small sports cars quickly down the road to excite the enthusiast , keep costs low to lotus and obtain acceptable emmisions for world markets, and good economy for owners. The turbo love it or loath it seems to be the default choice for Zenos owners, and lotus need to get on this bandwagon quick

zebedee said:

the vx220 turbo slayed itself quite often too - simple mid engined car with fine chassis poise suddenly getting a big boost of power when already on the limit = straight to the scene of the accident

[Matt Bird]

BibsTLF said:

otolith said:

Matt Bird said:

Good point, I'll add a note to the story now. Not included in the press release surprisingly enough...

See the comment above - not clear whether that 40k figure includes them or not.

BibsTLF said:

The 40,000 doesn't include anything other than Elise, Exige, Europa, 2-Eleven and 340R.

Lotus built 7,700 cars for GM (VX220/Speedster) and 2,500 cars for Tesla (Roadster) and they're not included in this figure. It doesn't include any of the one or two-offs either such as the Elise Type 115 Racer or the Pininfarina Enjoy Concept etc. If you did count them, the total would be well over 50,000...

Right, final clarification and an admission of a mistake! 40,000 is definitely just the Lotus cars produced on the Small Car Platform. I've had an email from Lotus stressing the point... Figures quoted from BibsTLF are spot on too.

Cheers!


Matt

[otolith]

[BibsTLF]

[JB!]

Whats the difference between the S1 and S2 other than appearance?

[otolith]

JB! said:

Whats the difference between the S1 and S2 other than appearance?

Interior is a bit different. Sills are a bit lower in the S2 making access easier. Roof design is different between S1s and early S2s, and different again in later cars. S1s and early S2s have Rover engines and unassisted brakes. Later S2s have Toyota engines, assisted brakes and ABS. Earlier cars are (generally, there are exceptions) lighter and less powerful and less refined - this happened over time, late S1s and early S2s aren't that far apart. S2 wheels are an inch larger. Most S2s have narrower front tyres than S1s (175/16 rather than 185/15). Suspension was revised for the S2 and again for the Toyota engines. S2s have more understeer but seem less likely to bite you on the arse - this is geometry sensitive, so if you want an S2 set up for arse-biting, you can have it.

Full model history;

http://wiki.seloc.org/a/Elise_model_history

[zebedee]

S2 saw the Toyota engine rather than K Series although I think some early S2 cars did have the K Series. Other than that and appearance, they are quite similar really, the main difference being that the S2 had skinnier tyres on the front to make them a bit more predictable in the handling department (although most purists preferred the s1).

Someone will probably correct me in a minute, I never followed the S2 much!

[Oddball RS]

saaby93 said:

jl34 said:

Cant think of anything worse than BMW buying up Lotus after the hash they made at running Rover group. Plus how did Tata make a success of Landrover and BMW couldn't?

BMW got Mini out of it, the 1 series and the 4WD engineering.
They got want they wanted out of it then parked the rest

The 1 Series? I don't follow, its a shortened 3 Series.

[Impasse]

Matt Bird said:

Right, final clarification and an admission of a mistake! 40,000 is definitely just the Lotus cars produced on the Small Car Platform. I've had an email from Lotus stressing the point... Figures quoted from BibsTLF are spot on too.

Cheers!


Matt

Funny how some manufacturers differ in their approach to things. Compare Lotus wanting clarification of the figures to Ferrari wanting to correct an inaccurate homologation assumption about the LaF on a post elsewhere in PH:

A Ferrari spokesman said:

“The LaFerrari has been homologated for all markets worldwide. This includes the USA, which remains Ferrari’s largest market. Any other indication is false and Ferrari will consider pursuing those who suggest otherwise for misrepresentation of the brand.”

[JB!]

otolith said:

JB! said:

Whats the difference between the S1 and S2 other than appearance?

Interior is a bit different. Sills are a bit lower in the S2 making access easier. Roof design is different between S1s and early S2s, and different again in later cars. S1s and early S2s have Rover engines and unassisted brakes. Later S2s have Toyota engines, assisted brakes and ABS. Earlier cars are (generally, there are exceptions) lighter and less powerful and less refined - this happened over time, late S1s and early S2s aren't that far apart. S2 wheels are an inch larger. Most S2s have narrower front tyres than S1s (175/16 rather than 185/15). Suspension was revised for the S2 and again for the Toyota engines. S2s have more understeer but seem less likely to bite you on the arse - this is geometry sensitive, so if you want an S2 set up for arse-biting, you can have it.

Full model history;

http://wiki.seloc.org/a/Elise_model_history

Nice.

Was the S2 chassis changed for the toyota engine or just the mounts, looking at swapping a TFSI in an S2 for GT86/BRZ money and doing a little homework the "toyota" cars are deemed the best base, but they are headed out of my price range for something to rip apart...

[otolith]

The rear subframe is different on the Toyota models;

http://elise-spares.com/Lotus-Genuine-Parts?produc...

http://elise-spares.com/Lotus-Genuine-Parts?produc...

[saaby93]

Oddball RS said:

saaby93 said:

jl34 said:

Cant think of anything worse than BMW buying up Lotus after the hash they made at running Rover group. Plus how did Tata make a success of Landrover and BMW couldn't?

BMW got Mini out of it, the 1 series and the 4WD engineering.
They got want they wanted out of it then parked the rest

The 1 Series? I don't follow, its a shortened 3 Series.

Ask which company was better at small car packaging?
Rover had a new FWD model R30 about ready to go into production, BMW swapped it to RWD rebadged it. Job done



Full Part story here
http://www.aronline.co.uk/blogs/concepts/concepts-...
The peculiar thing is many 1 series owners think their car is FWD

Sorry off topic

Edited by saaby93 on Wednesday 22 April 15:29