A victim of car-jacking

A victim of car-jacking

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Discussion

Paul O

2,705 posts

182 months

Friday 24th April 2015
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In the films, you would have distracted the attacker with your supreme confidence and vocal talent, before performing an ultimate disarmement tactical manuvre, then beat the crap out of his mate before calling the cops and having them arrested.

In real life however, the odds are on that you'd have been shot/stabbed/hospitalised unless you are a Bruce Lee warrior AND have the luck of a Euro Millions winner.

Letting them get on with it and coming out unscathed to go home to your family and friends was the best course of action I think. Thats the only "what if" scinareo thats worth considering.

You did good, and you did right. smile

Steven_RW

1,727 posts

201 months

Friday 24th April 2015
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Paul O said:
In the films, you would have distracted the attacker with your supreme confidence and vocal talent, before performing an ultimate disarmament tactical maneuver, then beat the crap out of his mate before calling the cops and having them arrested.

In real life however, the odds are on that you'd have been shot/stabbed/hospitalised unless you are a Bruce Lee warrior AND have the luck of a Euro Millions winner.

Letting them get on with it and coming out unscathed to go home to your family and friends was the best course of action I think. That's the only "what if" scenario that's worth considering.

You did good, and you did right. smile
You said it well.

Sorry to hear your crap news and experience OP. The smallest unexpected confrontation can sit with you for ages. Speak up about it and share it with friends and family and in time it will fade down.

Steven RW

Derwins Revenge

316 posts

169 months

Friday 24th April 2015
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OP, sorry to hear what happened. These s deserve nothing more than a bolt through the head.

CYMR0 said:
Very sorry to hear about that - it's extremely traumatic even to read about!

Is it leased? If so, it'd be interesting to see how you deal with the lease company, as VWFS have some interesting clauses in their lease when the car is written off or stolen.
Do you know what the clauses are? I'm genuinely interested, not calling you out smile


CYMR0

3,940 posts

199 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
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Derwins Revenge said:
Do you know what the clauses are? I'm genuinely interested, not calling you out smile
I would have to check my paperwork, but basically:

1. You give the lease company the full insurance settlement value, compensating them for their loss;
2. You also pay the lease price in full;
3. They wander off into the sunset having been paid the current retail value of the car, plus the remaining time on the lease. So if the settlement on this car were £28k and the end of lease, trade price is £20k, they're £8k better off than they expected to be as a result.

GAP insurance would cover this, but the OP wouldn't get his deposit back and likely couldn't source a similar car for the same money.

Of course, just because they have those rights under the contract, it doesn't mean that they always enforce them on that basis - it might just be them trying to minimise their obligations in case they can't provide a product or service until the end of the contract for whatever reason.

thelawnet

1,539 posts

154 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
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CYMR0 said:
I would have to check my paperwork, but basically:

1. You give the lease company the full insurance settlement value, compensating them for their loss;
2. You also pay the lease price in full;
3. They wander off into the sunset having been paid the current retail value of the car, plus the remaining time on the lease. So if the settlement on this car were £28k and the end of lease, trade price is £20k, they're £8k better off than they expected to be as a result.
No, that's not right.

You pay them the remaining lease payments, plus the expected value of the car at the normal END of the lease.

The 'Gap' potentially arises as follows:

You lease a 320d, which has a list cost of £30k

Y1 value - £18k
Y2 value - £15k
Y3 value - £12k

If you are paying £300/month, 3 + 35, then if the car is written off after 1 year, the insurance company pays out £18k to you, which was the value of the car immediately before it was destroyed, and the finance company demands 24 mths * £300, plus the expected final value of the car, i.e. £12,000, which gives £19,200 that you owe.

Hence you have a 'gap' of £1,200 between what the insurance company will pay you, and what you owe the finance company. This you can insure against (prior to the accident!), but frankly if you are that worried about £1200, then it begs the question of what you are doing leasing a BMW in the first place.....

In some situations you could end up in the reverse situation, e.g.,

Range Rover Evoque, £300/month, 2 year lease, 9 + 23
Sticker price £30k
Y1 value £29k
Y2 value £24k

Car written off after Y1, insurance pays out £29k, you owe £3,600 in lease payments, plus £24k final value, which leaves you £1,400 in pocket. Albeit of course that with the 9+23 you did shell out a lot up front.

brunbread

4,636 posts

107 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
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Terrible experience.

Wonder how many st insurance companies would refuse a payout on the grounds that you essentially handed them the keys under threat of violence.

lord trumpton

7,321 posts

125 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
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I can't offer anything of merit OP but please accept my sympathy though.

As a father of 3 and owner of a couple of tasty cars I know what is the more important to me. Those little children are the most important thing in the world and thank goodness yours are OK.

Unfortunately the Golf R is a big ticket car with 'look at me' exhaust pipes that get the thieving scum all hot and wet.

My dad had a MK4 golf R32 years ago and they did the same. It really affected him though and he spent loads on extra home security - it made him paranoid. Since then he's just owned run of the mill cars and sleeps better for it.

FWIW I would duck on getting another car like the Golf R and get something that is tasty but off the radar. Hot golfs have a history of association with the scumbags - Gti 16v, Vr6, R32, R, All have been thief magnets.


S8QUATTRO

843 posts

149 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
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Awful story, there are sadly plenty of scum about.

My two cars got nicked 7 months ago, and like you all I thought was buy a plain old car, stay under the radar. That lasted about a month. Don't let them stop you having what you want. Mine were stolen from home, so I added cc tv, big gates, a post etc, just to make it more difficult if there is a next time.

Ultimately. You did the right thing. You're still around for your kids and you can get another car...

Plus every tw@t thinks they're a bloody cage fighter these days,so it's not worth it unless it's life or death.

loskie

5,144 posts

119 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
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I know for the op it's too late. But surely if you buy/lease a fast desirable car you would be wise to fit a Tracker too. This would help locate and catch the gangs which are committing multiple crimes and hopefully long term reduce such incidents.
Or are the leases for these cars becoming too cheap that folks don't bother about the value till something happens?

Hoofy

76,253 posts

281 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
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As someone who is a company director, powerfully-built(ish) and has trained in martial arts (including military-based unarmed combat and traditional weapons)... I would have done the same thing. So stop replaying it in your head - you made the right decision. Ultimately, it's just a car (admittedly a nice one) and not worth ending up in hospital over.

TBH I'm at that point in my life where I just want to drive a st car that nobody cares about because people are st and I cba to deal with the hassle whether it's a carjacking or someone putting a dent in your car because they can't park properly in a car park.

If you'd fought back, you'd have ended up in a hospital bed for 6 weeks, and if you'd seriously injured someone in the fracas, you'd no doubt be having to pay for a lawyer to defend yourself from ending up behind bars. Chances are, you have more to lose than them - them being a misunderstood 20-something who never had the chance, promising footballer etc.

(And before someone posts that "we got a bad ass" pic, I'm just speaking the truth.)

dave_s13

13,813 posts

268 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
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So in cases like these has the initial payment just been lost to the ether?

When the OP gets paid out and opts for a new lease he'll have to shell out again for the 3x, 6x, 9x etc upfront lease payment?

Bad luck btw.

Edited by dave_s13 on Saturday 25th April 09:00

lord trumpton

7,321 posts

125 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
quotequote all
Hoofy said:
As someone who is a company director, powerfully-built(ish) and has trained in martial arts (including military-based unarmed combat and traditional weapons)... I would have done the same thing. So stop replaying it in your head - you made the right decision. Ultimately, it's just a car (admittedly a nice one) and not worth ending up in hospital over.

TBH I'm at that point in my life where I just want to drive a st car that nobody cares about because people are st and I cba to deal with the hassle whether it's a carjacking or someone putting a dent in your car because they can't park properly in a car park.

If you'd fought back, you'd have ended up in a hospital bed for 6 weeks, and if you'd seriously injured someone in the fracas, you'd no doubt be having to pay for a lawyer to defend yourself from ending up behind bars. Chances are, you have more to lose than them - them being a misunderstood 20-something who never had the chance, promising footballer etc.

(And before someone posts that "we got a bad ass" pic, I'm just speaking the truth.)
That's all very well, but from what you have said you don't have the essential goatee beard. This is a PH pre-requisite and without one you are a soft maggot type bloke with no more right to grace this planet than a glass of tepid tap water.

Grow a beard and then come back to the thread with the macho talk, Ok soft lad?

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
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brunbread said:
Wonder how many st insurance companies would refuse a payout on the grounds that you essentially handed them the keys under threat of violence.
None of them. Not a single one.

ackbullchang

270 posts

209 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
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I guess OP, the fact that you keep replaying the scenario in your head is part of the emotional coming to terms with a psychological damaging event. I wonder if this thread is part of that process in that you are seeking affirmation from others that you did the right thing.

Take some consolation then, that almost everyone that has posted so far would have taken exactly the same course of action and handed the keys over. You didn't make a mistake, that was absolutely the correct course of action. The type of people that plan these attacks are well organised and very much likely to refer to heavy violence if the scenario arises.

Depending on your disposition, it may take weeks, months or even years to heal from this trauma. I got mugged badly for a laptop and certain situations still trigger bad memories and dumps of adrenaline. That was over 3 years ago. What you need to determine going forward, as one other poster has said, is whether you make the decisions in your life going forward (I.e. future car choices) or you let your attackers make those decisions for you for fear of a similar event in the future.

Best of luck in your recovery.

Hoofy

76,253 posts

281 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
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lord trumpton said:
Hoofy said:
As someone who is a company director, powerfully-built(ish) and has trained in martial arts (including military-based unarmed combat and traditional weapons)... I would have done the same thing. So stop replaying it in your head - you made the right decision. Ultimately, it's just a car (admittedly a nice one) and not worth ending up in hospital over.

TBH I'm at that point in my life where I just want to drive a st car that nobody cares about because people are st and I cba to deal with the hassle whether it's a carjacking or someone putting a dent in your car because they can't park properly in a car park.

If you'd fought back, you'd have ended up in a hospital bed for 6 weeks, and if you'd seriously injured someone in the fracas, you'd no doubt be having to pay for a lawyer to defend yourself from ending up behind bars. Chances are, you have more to lose than them - them being a misunderstood 20-something who never had the chance, promising footballer etc.

(And before someone posts that "we got a bad ass" pic, I'm just speaking the truth.)
That's all very well, but from what you have said you don't have the essential goatee beard. This is a PH pre-requisite and without one you are a soft maggot type bloke with no more right to grace this planet than a glass of tepid tap water.

Grow a beard and then come back to the thread with the macho talk, Ok soft lad?
It is just as well I would hand over the keys, then!

Wills2

22,669 posts

174 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
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Hoofy said:
lord trumpton said:
Hoofy said:
As someone who is a company director, powerfully-built(ish) and has trained in martial arts (including military-based unarmed combat and traditional weapons)... I would have done the same thing. So stop replaying it in your head - you made the right decision. Ultimately, it's just a car (admittedly a nice one) and not worth ending up in hospital over.

TBH I'm at that point in my life where I just want to drive a st car that nobody cares about because people are st and I cba to deal with the hassle whether it's a carjacking or someone putting a dent in your car because they can't park properly in a car park.

If you'd fought back, you'd have ended up in a hospital bed for 6 weeks, and if you'd seriously injured someone in the fracas, you'd no doubt be having to pay for a lawyer to defend yourself from ending up behind bars. Chances are, you have more to lose than them - them being a misunderstood 20-something who never had the chance, promising footballer etc.

(And before someone posts that "we got a bad ass" pic, I'm just speaking the truth.)
That's all very well, but from what you have said you don't have the essential goatee beard. This is a PH pre-requisite and without one you are a soft maggot type bloke with no more right to grace this planet than a glass of tepid tap water.

Grow a beard and then come back to the thread with the macho talk, Ok soft lad?
It is just as well I would hand over the keys, then!
And by traditional weapons I hope you mean a can of red bull and/or frozen sausages?

Fire99

9,844 posts

228 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
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As others have said, you made the right decision. Sometimes Pride likes to give us a dig and make us feel we should have done more etc etc but at the end of the day the only thing you have lost is your car and gained a bit of hassle changing locks, credit cards etc.

Once again I'm only really repeating others comments but if it got violent you could have got hurt or you may have ended up defending yourself again in front of the law (which is mega stressful I have to admit). The second it turns violent, you're into a whole new 'ballpark'.

Don't shy away from using Victim Support if the event is still troubling you. There's no shame in it whatsoever.

Jakdaw

291 posts

209 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
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Gio G said:
I know I made the right decision to hand over the keys, as the consequences could have put me into hospital or worse.
Purely out of interest - and not in any way intending to suggest that you didn't make the best decision; but what other options did you consider in that brief moment? I find it interesting, that to me, if I wanted to separate someone from their keys (say in some hypothetical road rage situation) I'd instinctively take them and throw them as far as I could - yet in the situation you describe I don't think that throwing my own keys would even cross my mind...

Taking a step back to think of hypothetical situations, there might be a few where throwing your own keys over a wall/onto a roof or [not really] in front of an HGV (hoping for a very emotionally thick-skinned driver) might not be the worst idea?

andymc

7,334 posts

206 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
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Was there a tracking device on the car?

dbdb

4,311 posts

172 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
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A horrible situation to be in OP - and it is no surprise you are feeling traumatised by it. PTSD is a very unpleasant thing and I suspect you may have problems reliving it for a little while, sadly. I agree with everyone else: the only course of action to take in the situation is to hand over the keys.

A neighbour of mine once had an M5 stolen in similar circumstances from their drive. This time at gunpoint, but the actual threat of violence is immaterial - really the only thing that matters is the threat/promise of violence.

After some thought, they did replace the car with another high value car. They were similarly traumatised, but the thieves did not return. This gang was simply following 'target' cars home on their way back from Central Manchester, rather than staking out a particular house.

Edited by dbdb on Saturday 25th April 14:42