Is it time to take Korean cars seriously?

[kinghottinger]

CrgT16 said:

Also you are bang on... cheap runaround! That is the selling point and in your example the more expensive 500 is more desirable so even being cheaper, decently built you bought the 500. If the Kia was that fantastic you should have bought it.

The missus bought the 500 before I had the Picanto, but it's like handbags, isn't it? The most functional and best value handbag can't compete with the funky, expensive one that makes you look pretty*

I told her to get a Suzuki Swift Sport, but does she ever listen to me? (A: No)
Kia sell a surprising amount of cars so not everyone cares about perceived badge issues.

(*I've been told

[daemon]

ZX10R NIN said:

I said find me some equivalents for under 18k 64/15 less than 100 miles on the clock.

2015, Insignia 2.0 CDTI Limited Edition, 50 miles, £17495

That would make it a year YOUNGER than the KIA examples, for £500 less.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

Another one in black....

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

Latest model 64 plate Mondeo 1.6 TDCI Zetec 115BHP, just 11 miles on it, for £497 more....

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

Mazda 6 2.2D SE with NAV, 2015, 1 mile on it, £17499

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

[kiseca]

daemon said:

ZX10R NIN said:

I was referring to new

All your examples are for 2014 registered cars.

New the basic KIA Optima 1 is £18995.

The KIA Optima 3 is over £25,000.

Thats a lot of money for a budget brand car.

Edited by daemon on Monday 4th May 15:20

You'll pay over 18 grand for a high spec Nissan Note. I'm really interested what in the showroom has a sticker price to make the 25k Kia look expensive?

[ORD]

daemon said:

2015, Insignia 2.0 CDTI Limited Edition, 50 miles, £17495

That would make it a year YOUNGER than the KIA examples, for £500 less.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

Another one in black....

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

Latest model 64 plate Mondeo 1.6 TDCI Zetec 115BHP, just 11 miles on it, for £497 more....

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

Bingo! I do enjoy st Car Bingo.

If anyone can find a worse car than the insignia for £17k, I'll be impressed.

[daemon]

kiseca said:

You'll pay over 18 grand for a high spec Nissan Note. I'm really interested what in the showroom has a sticker price to make the 25k Kia look expensive?

For £25,000 the world is your lobster really...

Off the top of my head -

Qashqai new model, £21,500
Mazda 6 2.2D £23,500
Octavia 2.0TDI VRS
Scirocco 2.0TDI 150
New Model Passat 2.0TDI GT
Pretty much ANY Mondeo
Audi A3 Saloon

Are you really saying spending £25K of your hard earned on a KIA is a good idea?

[daemon]

ORD said:

Bingo! I do enjoy st Car Bingo.

If anyone can find a worse car than the insignia for £17k, I'll be impressed.

The KIA rates lower than it in most tests.....

Edited by daemon on Monday 4th May 16:12

[ORD]

daemon said:

The KIA rates lower than it in most tests.....

Edited by daemon on Monday 4th May 16:12

There is the answer to the OP, then.

Korean cars are still worse than what you might have thought was the worst car you could buy at the relevant price point. So, no, we shouldn't take them seriously.

I have thought for a while that the difference in price between premium and budget brands is not big enough given how crap a car you can still buy!

[daemon]

ORD said:

daemon said:

The KIA rates lower than it in most tests.....

Edited by daemon on Monday 4th May 16:12

There is the answer to the OP, then.

Korean cars are still worse than what you might have thought was the worst car you could buy at the relevant price point. So, no, we shouldn't take them seriously.

I have thought for a while that the difference in price between premium and budget brands is not big enough given how crap a car you can still buy!

With the Optima, definitely. Quite a pretty car, but dynamically below average and you can spend £25,000 on one with a bit of spec. If you really need a big saloon, theres plenty of mainstream alternatives - Mondeo, Passat, etc that are excellent cars with little added financial cost in doing so.

The lower end cars seem to be better - closer to the mainstream stuff. They're still a budget brand car though and personally i couldnt end sentences about my car with "but its got a long warranty" or "but its got a great spec" if i was in a position to have to justify my car to myself or company.

A friend of mine many moons ago very nearly bought a 1.8T Toledo when they werent long out. Everyone he told that he was thinking of buying one he felt obliged to finish the sentence "but its got a VW engine in it". I pointed this out that thats what he'd end up doing for the duration of his ownership of the car, so he spent £1000 more and bought the car he really wanted - the 1.8T Passat.

And to me, thats where these cars are - they dont really stand (yet) on their own merits, so you're buying them because they're a bit cheaper or a bit longer warranty, or because the spec is a bit better not really because they excel at anything in particular.

Edited by daemon on Monday 4th May 17:43

Edited by daemon on Monday 4th May 17:48

[ZX10R NIN]

daemon said:

64 plate passat, 2.0TDI, DSG, 12 miles, £17,000

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

So a same year, same plate passat, auto, 2.0 diesel, same miles, for £1000 less than the KIA auto?

Thank you. I'm here all week.

Yes & I'd take the Kia over that Passat every time, the spec & looks make the Passat a none starter for me, but if you about badge over substance then yes get the Passat

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

Edited by ZX10R NIN on Monday 4th May 17:45

[daemon]

ZX10R NIN said:

daemon said:

64 plate passat, 2.0TDI, DSG, 12 miles, £17,000

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

So a same year, same plate passat, auto, 2.0 diesel, same miles, for £1000 less than the KIA auto?

Thank you. I'm here all week.

Yes & I'd take the Kia over that Passat every time, the spec & looks make the Passat a none starter for me, but if you about badge over substance then yes get the Passat

Edited by daemon on Monday 4th May 15:17

Well then i guess we'll have to agree to disagree - I'd take the Passat because its the better car.

[cptsideways]

It seems some on here still think Korean cars are a decade behind the rest, think again folks this is 2015 not 2005. Bearing in mind in about 3 years Hyundai will be making more cars than Toyota. Many of the designers & engineers of these Kia/Hyundai's are European, most of the cars use European developed electronics & safety systems all the same as everything else.

Styling aside, so just from an engineering perspective, longevity & reliability factor I'd be choosing them over the VAG brands any day of the week.

[ZX10R NIN]

daemon said:

Well then i guess we'll have to agree to disagree - I'd take the Passat because its the better car.

On that one we will, wouldn't the world be boring if everyone liked the same thing.

[ORD]

daemon said:

Well then i guess we'll have to agree to disagree - I'd take the Passat because its the better car.

It cracks me up that 90% of posters on a car forum are more interested in spec and appearance than they are in how a car drives.

Another example - every SUV thread descends into banging on about whether or not the Quashqai is good looking. Nobody mentions that it is not available with a decent Diesel engine or even, bid forbid, a petrol engine that is remotely credible.

[Willy Nilly]

daemon said:

Willy Nilly said:

daemon said:

And a plastic fantastic interior

all car interiors are made predominantly of plastic

Different grades / types of plastic.

Are you telling me that interior of that KIA looked like a nice place to be?

I'll be honest, when I see a German cars interior described, I can't see the difference between any other brand, Vauxhalls look cheap, but looks are very subjective. Also I don't drive any other car than my own though I do use mini cabs from time to time and my observations are the VAG cars, mainly Octavias and Passats, are by far the rattliest. They always sound like something is dragging along the ground. The Avensis interiors are always the quietest, no matter how many miles the car has. So I'm not going to judge too much on looks. Things that are important are:

Are the switches where you want them?
Does it have enough features to be up to date?
Does it rattle?

[ZX10R NIN]

ORD said:

It cracks me up that 90% of posters on a car forum are more interested in spec and appearance than they are in how a car drives.

Another example - every SUV thread descends into banging on about whether or not the Quashqai is good looking. Nobody mentions that it is not available with a decent Diesel engine or even, bid forbid, a petrol engine that is remotely credible.

It handles well enough for his A Road & Motorway commute more roll than a Mondeo (which wins most handling tests in this segment) but it's not shocking plus when he want's handling he'll take the M3

[off_again]

Korean cars to be taken seriously?

Well, let me put it this way - moved to the USA and work with a guy who is classic cut-him-in-half-and-see-the-stars-and-stripes. He served in the US Airforce to the rank of Major, always driven US cars, always ridden Harleys and buys American when and where he can.

He bought a Kia. Loves it. In fact, raves about it and the fact that its a complete and utter turn around for him!

Though, to be fair, Kia's are cheaper in the USA and they have been very clever here. For example, they are just a smidge more expensive than domestic and around the same price as the Japanese manufacturers, but offer more equipment and "that" warranty. Ok, so Toyota and Honda do offer similar / same warranties, but they haven't marketed them as hard and hence the average punter on the street associates the 5 year thing with the Koreans.

[kiseca]

daemon said:

kiseca said:

You'll pay over 18 grand for a high spec Nissan Note. I'm really interested what in the showroom has a sticker price to make the 25k Kia look expensive?

For £25,000 the world is your lobster really...

Off the top of my head -

Qashqai new model, £21,500
Mazda 6 2.2D £23,500
Octavia 2.0TDI VRS
Scirocco 2.0TDI 150
New Model Passat 2.0TDI GT
Pretty much ANY Mondeo
Audi A3 Saloon

Are you really saying spending £25K of your hard earned on a KIA is a good idea?

Audi A3 is a smaller class of vehicle. Scirocco is a coupe. Why would I even be comparing that to a sedan? Qashqai is more equivalent to the Sportage and is £26k for a decent spec. £21k gets you a tiny engine or bare bones spec. Pricing is comparable to the sportage but then the sportage gets decent reviews. Mondeo might be alright but the interior had better be a step up from the Focus. Mazda 6 would probably get my cash. Octavia and Passat might be good alternatives, I didn't bother to look because neither float my boat.

I don't like the styling of the Optima so wouldn't buy one, but if the Forte was available for 25k I'd consider it seriously against any of the cars you mention.

[daemon]

kiseca said:

daemon said:

kiseca said:

You'll pay over 18 grand for a high spec Nissan Note. I'm really interested what in the showroom has a sticker price to make the 25k Kia look expensive?

For £25,000 the world is your lobster really...

Off the top of my head -

Qashqai new model, £21,500
Mazda 6 2.2D £23,500
Octavia 2.0TDI VRS
Scirocco 2.0TDI 150
New Model Passat 2.0TDI GT
Pretty much ANY Mondeo
Audi A3 Saloon

Are you really saying spending £25K of your hard earned on a KIA is a good idea?

Audi A3 is a smaller class of vehicle. Scirocco is a coupe. Why would I even be comparing that to a sedan? Qashqai is more equivalent to the Sportage and is £26k for a decent spec. £21k gets you a tiny engine or bare bones spec. Pricing is comparable to the sportage but then the sportage gets decent reviews. Mondeo might be alright but the interior had better be a step up from the Focus. Mazda 6 would probably get my cash. Octavia and Passat might be good alternatives, I didn't bother to look because neither float my boat.

I don't like the styling of the Optima so wouldn't buy one, but if the Forte was available for 25k I'd consider it seriously against any of the cars you mention.

You asked what made a £25K KIA Optima look expensive and i gave you a list. You didnt ask for viable alternatives.

In fact, i've given you those already anyway with the Passat, Mondeo, Mazda 6 even the Insignia. All of those have very capable well spec'd models available at that price point that make the KIA look expensive, given its a budget brand.

[daemon]

cptsideways said:

It seems some on here still think Korean cars are a decade behind the rest, think again folks this is 2015 not 2005. Bearing in mind in about 3 years Hyundai will be making more cars than Toyota. Many of the designers & engineers of these Kia/Hyundai's are European, most of the cars use European developed electronics & safety systems all the same as everything else.

Styling aside, so just from an engineering perspective, longevity & reliability factor I'd be choosing them over the VAG brands any day of the week.

I think they've come a long way in 20 years. However i think it will take them 10 years before they are dynamically as good as the best of the european equivalents. But it will come.

I dont think anyone has said they're 10 years behind? Can you point us to where?

[kiseca]

daemon said:

You asked what made a £25K KIA Optima look expensive and i gave you a list. You didnt ask for viable alternatives.

daemon said:

In fact, i've given you those already anyway with the Passat, Mondeo, Mazda 6 even the Insignia. All of those have very capable well spec'd models available at that price point that make the KIA look expensive, given its a budget brand.

Only expensive if you're expecting them to sell you the same car for less money than anyone else. They were a budget brand, the question here is should they now be taken seriously? Noone takesxa budget brand seriously.