Is it time to take Korean cars seriously?
Discussion
daemon said:
With the Optima, definitely. Quite a pretty car, but dynamically below average and you can spend £25,000 on one with a bit of spec. If you really need a big saloon, theres plenty of mainstream alternatives - Mondeo, Passat, etc that are excellent cars with little added financial cost in doing so.
The lower end cars seem to be better - closer to the mainstream stuff. They're still a budget brand car though and personally i couldnt end sentences about my car with "but its got a long warranty" or "but its got a great spec" if i was in a position to have to justify my car to myself or company.
A friend of mine many moons ago very nearly bought a 1.8T Toledo when they werent long out. Everyone he told that he was thinking of buying one he felt obliged to finish the sentence "but its got a VW engine in it". I pointed this out that thats what he'd end up doing for the duration of his ownership of the car, so he spent £1000 more and bought the car he really wanted - the 1.8T Passat.
And to me, thats where these cars are - they dont really stand (yet) on their own merits, so you're buying them because they're a bit cheaper or a bit longer warranty, or because the spec is a bit better not really because they excel at anything in particular.
Of course you are buying them becuase they are cheaper or have a longer warranty or have better spec as standard. It isn't having to justify it, its more of saying 'look what I got for my money'. That's what we are talking about on here, normal cars, not performance varients. Why buy a 1.6 diesel golf when you can try an equivilant Kia that is; cheaper, longer warranty and comes higher specced as standard. Your argument isn't making much sense to me?The lower end cars seem to be better - closer to the mainstream stuff. They're still a budget brand car though and personally i couldnt end sentences about my car with "but its got a long warranty" or "but its got a great spec" if i was in a position to have to justify my car to myself or company.
A friend of mine many moons ago very nearly bought a 1.8T Toledo when they werent long out. Everyone he told that he was thinking of buying one he felt obliged to finish the sentence "but its got a VW engine in it". I pointed this out that thats what he'd end up doing for the duration of his ownership of the car, so he spent £1000 more and bought the car he really wanted - the 1.8T Passat.
And to me, thats where these cars are - they dont really stand (yet) on their own merits, so you're buying them because they're a bit cheaper or a bit longer warranty, or because the spec is a bit better not really because they excel at anything in particular.
Edited by daemon on Monday 4th May 17:43
Edited by daemon on Monday 4th May 17:48
Devil2575 said:
daemon said:
People who buy a Fiat 500 do so because they "want" a fashion accessory.
EFAI liked it so much, that I'm swapping it for another one in a month or so. This time a Twin Air cabriolet. I bought the new one because the colour matches that of my eyes.
neil1jnr said:
As you said in another post that people would be forever justifying their choice by going on about the 7 year warranty etc, I hear people justifying their choice when they buy VW's; the interior quality is 'better' and they are 'better' made. I think you look more bizaare justifying why you paid a premium for perceived quality rather than why you spent less bought have yourself a 7 year warranty.
I didnt pay a premium for perceived quality, nor did i when i had the golf ever tell people i bought it because it was "better" made or because its interior quality is "better".I bought it because it was the better car.
Having a good car was more important to me than having the longest warranty.
Blib said:
I bought my 500 because I needed a London runabout. The car is a Twin Air & so, it is road tax free and is congestion charge exempt too. At least until next year. It's perfect for nipping around town. Is very frugal with petrol and generally is an excellent place to be.
I liked it so much, that I'm swapping it for another one in a month or so. This time a Twin Air cabriolet. I bought the new one because the colour matches that of my eyes.
I'm sure the 500 is a decent car, but if you took the same car and put a different badge on the front, say Hyundai, they would have sold a fraction of the numbers.I liked it so much, that I'm swapping it for another one in a month or so. This time a Twin Air cabriolet. I bought the new one because the colour matches that of my eyes.
neil1jnr said:
Of course you are buying them becuase they are cheaper or have a longer warranty or have better spec as standard. It isn't having to justify it, its more of saying 'look what I got for my money'. That's what we are talking about on here, normal cars, not performance varients. Why buy a 1.6 diesel golf when you can try an equivilant Kia that is; cheaper, longer warranty and comes higher specced as standard. Your argument isn't making much sense to me?
Because overall its dynamically the better car. I'm not sure why you're not getting this. If you're doing 25K per year you want to be in the right car. For me it was either the Focus of the Golf as i didnt need the size of an Octavia, as they are the two best cars in their class. Personally it came down to looks - the focus looks odd to me with its extended wheelbase. I can see why people would buy the Kia Ceed, but it wasnt for me.
If you look at any of what might be considered the best in class cars, they arent there because they are the cheapest or have the longest warranties. They are all round good cars.
THATS what KIA lacks at the moment, particularly with the Optima. Its an average at best car in a hugely competitive market in which buyers have the choice of other excellent cars.
As i've said already though, i'd probably have the IX35 and KIA Sorento in my top three if i was buying a 4x4 as i think they are good cars.
Devil2575 said:
Blib said:
I bought my 500 because I needed a London runabout. The car is a Twin Air & so, it is road tax free and is congestion charge exempt too. At least until next year. It's perfect for nipping around town. Is very frugal with petrol and generally is an excellent place to be.
I liked it so much, that I'm swapping it for another one in a month or so. This time a Twin Air cabriolet. I bought the new one because the colour matches that of my eyes.
I'm sure the 500 is a decent car, but if you took the same car and put a different badge on the front, say Hyundai, they would have sold a fraction of the numbers.I liked it so much, that I'm swapping it for another one in a month or so. This time a Twin Air cabriolet. I bought the new one because the colour matches that of my eyes.
neil1jnr said:
Of course you are buying them becuase they are cheaper or have a longer warranty or have better spec as standard.
And therefore ultimately thats their USP in a crowded marketplace with some excellent cars in it - NOT we make the best cars, but we make average cars with a bit of extra kit and warranty.daemon said:
Devil2575 said:
Blib said:
I bought my 500 because I needed a London runabout. The car is a Twin Air & so, it is road tax free and is congestion charge exempt too. At least until next year. It's perfect for nipping around town. Is very frugal with petrol and generally is an excellent place to be.
I liked it so much, that I'm swapping it for another one in a month or so. This time a Twin Air cabriolet. I bought the new one because the colour matches that of my eyes.
I'm sure the 500 is a decent car, but if you took the same car and put a different badge on the front, say Hyundai, they would have sold a fraction of the numbers.I liked it so much, that I'm swapping it for another one in a month or so. This time a Twin Air cabriolet. I bought the new one because the colour matches that of my eyes.
daemon said:
neil1jnr said:
As you said in another post that people would be forever justifying their choice by going on about the 7 year warranty etc, I hear people justifying their choice when they buy VW's; the interior quality is 'better' and they are 'better' made. I think you look more bizaare justifying why you paid a premium for perceived quality rather than why you spent less bought have yourself a 7 year warranty.
I didnt pay a premium for perceived quality, nor did i when i had the golf ever tell people i bought it because it was "better" made or because its interior quality is "better".I bought it because it was the better car.
Having a good car was more important to me than having the longest warranty.
daemon said:
neil1jnr said:
Of course you are buying them becuase they are cheaper or have a longer warranty or have better spec as standard.
And therefore ultimately thats their USP in a crowded marketplace with some excellent cars in it - NOT we make the best cars, but we make average cars with a bit of extra kit and warranty.kiseca said:
daemon said:
neil1jnr said:
Of course you are buying them becuase they are cheaper or have a longer warranty or have better spec as standard.
And therefore ultimately thats their USP in a crowded marketplace with some excellent cars in it - NOT we make the best cars, but we make average cars with a bit of extra kit and warranty.daemon said:
Devil2575 said:
Blib said:
I bought my 500 because I needed a London runabout. The car is a Twin Air & so, it is road tax free and is congestion charge exempt too. At least until next year. It's perfect for nipping around town. Is very frugal with petrol and generally is an excellent place to be.
I liked it so much, that I'm swapping it for another one in a month or so. This time a Twin Air cabriolet. I bought the new one because the colour matches that of my eyes.
I'm sure the 500 is a decent car, but if you took the same car and put a different badge on the front, say Hyundai, they would have sold a fraction of the numbers.I liked it so much, that I'm swapping it for another one in a month or so. This time a Twin Air cabriolet. I bought the new one because the colour matches that of my eyes.
They have reinvented a part of their own history and marketed it very well.
It's also competetively priced and playing very much on it's cute looks.
I still maintain that had it been made in Korea it would have sold a lot less units. Fiat may not be the coolest brand in the world but it has a lot more cachet than Hyundia or Kia. I actually think a lot of it is down to exposure and in ten years time people will think of them in the same way as they do Ford, Vauxhall, Citroen etc.
Devil2575 said:
I think that in the small car market Fiat are anything but naff.
They have reinvented a part of their own history and marketed it very well.
I actually meant 'were' not are. The 500 was a god send for them. Apparently it makes up something like 70% of their sales. The rest of their range at the time was poor, therefore the 500s success wasnt down to the FIAT brand at the time.They have reinvented a part of their own history and marketed it very well.
Devil2575 said:
I still maintain that had it been made in Korea it would have sold a lot less units. Fiat may not be the coolest brand in the world but it has a lot more cachet than Hyundia or Kia. I actually think a lot of it is down to exposure and in ten years time people will think of them in the same way as they do Ford, Vauxhall, Citroen etc.
Yes, totally agree. I have said since page 4 that in ten years time the market will look very different for KIA and Hyundai. I'd say they will be up there with the best AND have top warranties and spec.
daemon said:
Devil2575 said:
I think that in the small car market Fiat are anything but naff.
They have reinvented a part of their own history and marketed it very well.
I actually meant 'were' not are. The 500 was a god send for them. Apparently it makes up something like 70% of their sales. The rest of their range at the time was poor, therefore the 500s success wasnt down to the FIAT brand at the time.They have reinvented a part of their own history and marketed it very well.
In any case, the 500 has become a very fashionable car to own and i'd bet a great many people buy one based purely on that.
Fattyfat said:
daemon said:
From the man with the Passat?
Yep, because my Alfa is broken. Italian 'reliability' eh?Also your history is packed with mainstream brands offering some would argue style / image over substance?
And you have owned a Golf - probably the worst of the lot, the mk4 2.0 GTI.
So why have a swipe at the golf on here?
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