Is it time to take Korean cars seriously?
Discussion
I was at a motorshow in Bournemouth yesterday and sat in a lot of mainstream cars, including plenty of Kias and it really opened my eyes to how far the Koreans have come. In terms of build quality and interior ambience, there is really little to separate Kia from Skoda, Ford, Vauxhall, Nissan etc. In terms of styling, I'd say the current Kia range is a lot more pleasing on the eye than most of the French stuff and plenty of Ford, Vauxhsll, VAG and Jap cars. I didn't get a chance to drive anything but cant imagine there's much in it on the road either, but I doubt many people on here would seriously consider anything Korean. When you look at the Honda, Toyota and Nissan ranges you could argue that Kia have a stronger line up for family buyers than the big Jap firms so I believe the Koreans might even overtake the Japanese as the big volume far east players. However, its got to be said that they don't YET build many sporty cars, the Pro'Ceed GT being the only thing remotely hot hatish. So do you think that's all it needs now, an investment in range topping drivers cars and then we will all take them serious?
When even the likes of Lotus are turning out SUVs to balance the books I can't see a player like Kia, who are already making great strides in the volume market, bothering too hard to court the affections of petrolheads. There just ain't much money in it. I see a lot of Kias about as there's a dealership in my town and the new ones do look smart, and I was very impressed with the Sportage I drove a few thousand miles around the American Midwest last year, so if I were in the market for new A-to-B transport they could well get my money.
Exactly, I agree.
The target demographic for Kia/Hyundai is sensible middle-class people who want a family car for private use to pop to the shops.
Unless you are manufacturing a niche performance car (Ariel, Noble) then the only reason to produce something like, say, the GTR is because of the "halo" effect on the rest of your range. In the past, there was an element of needing a "hooligan" car for the motoring journalists to write about, in order to garner positive reviews for your bread-and-butter models. But the internet and pandering to a certain big manufacturing bloc has pretty much wiped out the print magazine's relevance to normal private motorists and even to fleet buyers. Particularly now where, VAG group excepted (see the thread elsewhere on 50K for a clutch being good), you can pretty much guarantee any car will last for the 4 years/100K miles that the fleet buyer cares about.
Kia and Hyundai aren't going after the demographic who will aspire to an "S30" but can only afford the i30. They don't seem to be pitching overly hard at the fleet buyers either, but perhaps there is a longer term strategy in play there.
So, we need to take them seriously for the 95% of people who treat their car as a way to get from A to B without engaging in any exercise. If they squeeze out the manufacturers who do make performance cars then we'll be left with niche models only for people who enjoy a "spirited" drive.
Might be time to learn how to build a kit-car ...
The target demographic for Kia/Hyundai is sensible middle-class people who want a family car for private use to pop to the shops.
Unless you are manufacturing a niche performance car (Ariel, Noble) then the only reason to produce something like, say, the GTR is because of the "halo" effect on the rest of your range. In the past, there was an element of needing a "hooligan" car for the motoring journalists to write about, in order to garner positive reviews for your bread-and-butter models. But the internet and pandering to a certain big manufacturing bloc has pretty much wiped out the print magazine's relevance to normal private motorists and even to fleet buyers. Particularly now where, VAG group excepted (see the thread elsewhere on 50K for a clutch being good), you can pretty much guarantee any car will last for the 4 years/100K miles that the fleet buyer cares about.
Kia and Hyundai aren't going after the demographic who will aspire to an "S30" but can only afford the i30. They don't seem to be pitching overly hard at the fleet buyers either, but perhaps there is a longer term strategy in play there.
So, we need to take them seriously for the 95% of people who treat their car as a way to get from A to B without engaging in any exercise. If they squeeze out the manufacturers who do make performance cars then we'll be left with niche models only for people who enjoy a "spirited" drive.
Might be time to learn how to build a kit-car ...
The Kia Pro_C'eed GT is quite a good 'warm hatch'. Certainly comes with plenty of kit for the circa 20k price tag. It just was never going to make waves with 200 hp in a market that passed that several years ago.
They've been putting out good vanilla cars for 5 or more years now. Certainly comparable with the daily Fords and Vauxhalls, but now without the smaller price tag (generally you get a little more kit)
They've been putting out good vanilla cars for 5 or more years now. Certainly comparable with the daily Fords and Vauxhalls, but now without the smaller price tag (generally you get a little more kit)
My father has one of the latest Kia C'eeds. I think it is a much better looking car than the equivalent Focus/Astra/Golf/etc.
I wonder whether there is the chance for them to do like Subaru did in the mid-90s with the Impreza and stick a decent engine in the C'eed and Pro-ceed and sell it for much less than the Golf GTi or Focus ST and gain a bit chunk of the enthusiast market.
I wonder whether there is the chance for them to do like Subaru did in the mid-90s with the Impreza and stick a decent engine in the C'eed and Pro-ceed and sell it for much less than the Golf GTi or Focus ST and gain a bit chunk of the enthusiast market.
I doubt they'll ever be a serious player with high level/top end cars in terms of performance, with all the well established brands in just about every marketplace/area to contend with I doubt they'll even try - but as a mass market contender they have to be taken very seriously indeed IMO, they can only get better, look at the Kias of today compared to ten years ago, they have come on in leaps and bounds.
There is a black Kia Ceed GT kicking around on the street I live on and it looks very good indeed, definitely a step in the right direction.
There is a black Kia Ceed GT kicking around on the street I live on and it looks very good indeed, definitely a step in the right direction.
The pro ceed gt may be the size of a focus but it's got the price tag and power of a fiesta St.
I took a focus st and a ceed gt out for a drive. The ford was quicker because of the 50bhp advantage, but the kias interior quality is impeccable. The Lower down plastics in the ford where filmsey and in the kia everything was damped, good plastic. Fully loaded for £18k i was offered one at. That's work heated seats sat nav, xenons etc.
Ide have any kia IMO. Ide place them better than ford and certainly on a par with vw.
Just a shame the finance figures didn't quite add up, the ceed was around 85 more a month than a focus st. But I guess that's down to poor residuals.
It was great to drive but lacking a bit of sound proofing but that's in comparison to a e60 530d
I took a focus st and a ceed gt out for a drive. The ford was quicker because of the 50bhp advantage, but the kias interior quality is impeccable. The Lower down plastics in the ford where filmsey and in the kia everything was damped, good plastic. Fully loaded for £18k i was offered one at. That's work heated seats sat nav, xenons etc.
Ide have any kia IMO. Ide place them better than ford and certainly on a par with vw.
Just a shame the finance figures didn't quite add up, the ceed was around 85 more a month than a focus st. But I guess that's down to poor residuals.
It was great to drive but lacking a bit of sound proofing but that's in comparison to a e60 530d
To be perfectly honest, they've been doing the A to B runabout stuff really well for a while. Had a go in a Cee'd diesel a couple of years ago. Perfectly decent car. It wasn't exciting in any way but then neither would an equivalent spec Focus, Astra, Golf etc have been. It drove in that same effortless, light, easy, slightly disconnected way all modern cars do, was smooth, quiet, comfortable, well equipped, well put together etc. And for a car like this, that you buy to do a job, a 7 year warranty is a really nice touch.
The biggest problem the Koreans face, at least as far as the UK market goes, is badge snobbery. There's really nothing wrong with the product itself, in the context of mainstream family transportation. I think the Cee'd is as good as a Focus or Golf in equivalent diesel / mid-spec petrol trim.
The biggest problem the Koreans face, at least as far as the UK market goes, is badge snobbery. There's really nothing wrong with the product itself, in the context of mainstream family transportation. I think the Cee'd is as good as a Focus or Golf in equivalent diesel / mid-spec petrol trim.
Edited by Limpet on Sunday 3rd May 09:58
)I was about to buy a LR Evoque last year. I thought I'd just check out the Kia Sportage before I took the plunge to see what I could get for less money.
The new Sportage in the showroom, with a 2.0 diesel engine & auto option & leather came to over £28K, without much inclination from the dealer to haggle. For the same money I could have bought a 1 year old Evoque, which, without going into too much detail, is a better proposition for quite a few reasons.
In the end I bought a new Evoque, but the new Sportage vs one year old Evoque equation meant there could only be one outcome, for me at least.
However, consider this, the new Sportage was £28K & I paid £32.5K for the new Evoque. Both new, but the LR IMHO is better in every area, including resale.
The Kia is a fine car, as long as it keeps price from more desirable competition as a big differentiator. In my case the potential saving was simply not enough
The new Sportage in the showroom, with a 2.0 diesel engine & auto option & leather came to over £28K, without much inclination from the dealer to haggle. For the same money I could have bought a 1 year old Evoque, which, without going into too much detail, is a better proposition for quite a few reasons.
In the end I bought a new Evoque, but the new Sportage vs one year old Evoque equation meant there could only be one outcome, for me at least.
However, consider this, the new Sportage was £28K & I paid £32.5K for the new Evoque. Both new, but the LR IMHO is better in every area, including resale.
The Kia is a fine car, as long as it keeps price from more desirable competition as a big differentiator. In my case the potential saving was simply not enough
Edited by volvos60s60 on Sunday 3rd May 10:10
My neighbour's Evoque seems to spend more time back in the dealer being fixed than it does on their drive. The advantage of course is that they get to try various other models in the range. Various Range Rover Sports and Disco 4s over the past year.
I take your point on desirability and residuals though.
I take your point on desirability and residuals though.
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