Driverless Cars + Insurance???
Discussion
SuperPav said:
I'm thinking along similar lines... It's no different to if you're driving today and your brand new car has catastrophic wheel failure due to a manufacturing defect, causing you to plough into the car in front. Your insurance pays out to the third party, then you/your insurers go chasing the manufacturer for the defect, manufacturer then pays you/your insurance.
The real change will be to the manufacturers, who will need different level of cover to protect themselves against such claims where the autonomous system malfunctions.
Thats a good way of looking at it. I'm enjoying this discussion The real change will be to the manufacturers, who will need different level of cover to protect themselves against such claims where the autonomous system malfunctions.
otolith said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
otolith said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Agree. As any collision will not be the driver's fault, it will be a product liability claim, and down to the manufacturer. So they will need product liability cover to be provided by the manufacturer.
I don't see it that way. I think the person who wishes to use the car on the road will be immediately liable for the consequences, just as with manually driven cars. If you choose to use a vehicle on the road which may conceivably pose a risk to third parties, you'll have to insure it. You would have to insure it even to park it on the road. I can't see why our insurance framework would be altered for autonomous cars - the person choosing to use it would remain responsible for the consequences of doing so.
A driverless car might be stolen, but in theory it couldn't hit anything. The safety systems would come into play. And it couldn't roll down a hill like a manually controlled car. One assumes it sets its own handbrake when reaching its destination. And even if it did roll away, it wouldn't hit anything else.
Much of this is speculation based on what we think these driverless cars will and won't do.
otolith said:
Indeed. I just don't see that it will be perceived as necessary to change the basis of third party insurance in the UK as a response to autonomous vehicles - the current framework will work perfectly well.
You could be right. But the reason we have compulsory tp insurance is because of the risk of injury or damage to others caused by operator negligence. If these new wonder vehicles remove that possibility, why do you need the insurance? aww999 said:
You can delegate authority, but never responsibility. If you, as a driver, choose to use a computer to operate your vehicle, it is still your fault if goes wrong!
How? If the manufacturer seals the unit, what can you do? It'll do what the manufacturer programmed it to do and nothing else, so if it fails it's the manufacturer's fault.TwigtheWonderkid said:
otolith said:
Indeed. I just don't see that it will be perceived as necessary to change the basis of third party insurance in the UK as a response to autonomous vehicles - the current framework will work perfectly well.
You could be right. But the reason we have compulsory tp insurance is because of the risk of injury or damage to others caused by operator negligence. If these new wonder vehicles remove that possibility, why do you need the insurance? Monty Python said:
aww999 said:
You can delegate authority, but never responsibility. If you, as a driver, choose to use a computer to operate your vehicle, it is still your fault if goes wrong!
How? If the manufacturer seals the unit, what can you do? It'll do what the manufacturer programmed it to do and nothing else, so if it fails it's the manufacturer's fault.Cars are currently filled with plenty of sealed non servicable parts that if they fail the manufacturer takes no responsibility for unless it's within the warranty period, the ECU for example.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
You could be right. But the reason we have compulsory tp insurance is because of the risk of injury or damage to others caused by operator negligence. If these new wonder vehicles remove that possibility, why do you need the insurance?
Hopefully there will come a day when these things are so safe that we decide that mandatory third party cover is no longer needed - but I don't think that will be the starting point. I think it's going to be moot in some senses anyway - I think young drivers are going to think it's Christmas when they get insurance quotes for cars that they don't actually drive.
akirk said:
if you have seen the recent footage of an Audi autonomous drive on the autobahn it is a little scary - the car nearly killed a number of people - didn't notice road workers or slow down / would have hit another vehicle / etc. - just imagine the same car around Marble Arch Even if you only had autonomous cars on the road, you can't ban humans / birds / wild animals etc.
I want a link to this? Even if you only had autonomous cars on the road, you can't ban humans / birds / wild animals etc.Imagine the fun a team of hackers could have or the chaos they could cause if there was a gateway into the autonomous cars brains, brings a new dimension into hijacking or how about the car bombers they could just set it to drive or park where it is needed.
How about motoring offences or parking offenses who would be liable for them.
The car chose the speed or missed the change in limit, or it parked in that spot I didn't tell it too.
How about motoring offences or parking offenses who would be liable for them.
The car chose the speed or missed the change in limit, or it parked in that spot I didn't tell it too.
otolith said:
Gavin0478 said:
How about motoring offences or parking offenses who would be liable for them.
You think they'll be programmed to commit motoring offences? I guess you'll be able to overstay in parking, in which case you'll be liable like you are now.
aww999 said:
You can delegate authority, but never responsibility. If you, as a driver, choose to use a computer to operate your vehicle, it is still your fault if goes wrong!
Why do firms have product liability then insurance then. If the Docklands Light Railway crashed tomorrow, you think the the system manufacturers would have no liability?Devil2575 said:
Is it still the manufacturers fault?
Cars are currently filled with plenty of sealed non servicable parts that if they fail the manufacturer takes no responsibility for unless it's within the warranty period, the ECU for example.
But the ECU isn't driving the car - you are. Cars are currently filled with plenty of sealed non servicable parts that if they fail the manufacturer takes no responsibility for unless it's within the warranty period, the ECU for example.
The question comes down to what causes the accident. If you're simply a passenger in the vehicle, then if something goes wrong over which you have no control then you cannot be held liable.
Terminator X said:
Kill them with fire, frightful contraptions.
TX
Why? You wouldn't think twice about jumping on a tram or a bus to get from A to B. It'll be the same thing except you won't have to share the space with the great unwashed. And you can choose your radio station and temperature.TX
In the right circumstances it'll be fine.
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