Driverless Cars + Insurance???
Discussion
Ok so I don't know if anyone has covered this before but I was thinking about this the other day. (I'm not a supporter at all of a computer making decisions on the road).
The question: If these driverless cars do ever take off, How would they be insured do you guys think??? In my head it shouldn't be up to the person sitting in the car to have to insure them because essentially they're a taxi. Insurance is to cover human error behind the wheel but if the human isn't in control then surely it's up to the manufacturer to trust their car enough to insure every one they sell.
Just want your views on the matter really. I hope they never take off.
Thanks in advance.
The question: If these driverless cars do ever take off, How would they be insured do you guys think??? In my head it shouldn't be up to the person sitting in the car to have to insure them because essentially they're a taxi. Insurance is to cover human error behind the wheel but if the human isn't in control then surely it's up to the manufacturer to trust their car enough to insure every one they sell.
Just want your views on the matter really. I hope they never take off.
Thanks in advance.
talksthetorque said:
Can see the manufacturers having to bundle the insurance in with the product, once they go totally automated
Agree. As any collision will not be the driver's fault, it will be a product liability claim, and down to the manufacturer. So they will need product liability cover to be provided by the manufacturer.TwigtheWonderkid said:
Agree. As any collision will not be the driver's fault, it will be a product liability claim, and down to the manufacturer. So they will need product liability cover to be provided by the manufacturer.
I don't see it that way. I think the person who wishes to use the car on the road will be immediately liable for the consequences, just as with manually driven cars. Their insurer may wish to pursue the manufacturer if they take a loss as a result of negligence on the manufacturer's part. You still need to insure a car merely to park it on the road, and if it rolls down the hill and kills someone because of a handbrake fault, the first claim will be against your insurer.
I think that some manufacturers are refering to them more as automated cars than driverless cars - with a deliberate slant to ensure that there is no implication that there is no driver - i.e. setting the scene for the ultimate liability to be the driver - certainly initially there will be far more automation than 'driver-less-ness' determined by the driver having the ability to a) turn on automation and b) turn it off
I could only see the manufacturer / government picking up liability at a point when the vehicles give the occupants no choice and take control away from the occupant... even then there will be an expectation of tolerances - i.e. the manual says don't take on a journey in snow, you do - you are liable.
anyone who believes that big corporations won't wrap it in huge amounts of legal disclaimers will have a shock coming! Easy to see scenarios where you give away control, but have to retain responsibility!
if you have seen the recent footage of an Audi autonomous drive on the autobahn it is a little scary - the car nearly killed a number of people - didn't notice road workers or slow down / would have hit another vehicle / etc. - just imagine the same car around Marble Arch
Even if you only had autonomous cars on the road, you can't ban humans / birds / wild animals etc.
I could only see the manufacturer / government picking up liability at a point when the vehicles give the occupants no choice and take control away from the occupant... even then there will be an expectation of tolerances - i.e. the manual says don't take on a journey in snow, you do - you are liable.
anyone who believes that big corporations won't wrap it in huge amounts of legal disclaimers will have a shock coming! Easy to see scenarios where you give away control, but have to retain responsibility!
if you have seen the recent footage of an Audi autonomous drive on the autobahn it is a little scary - the car nearly killed a number of people - didn't notice road workers or slow down / would have hit another vehicle / etc. - just imagine the same car around Marble Arch
Even if you only had autonomous cars on the road, you can't ban humans / birds / wild animals etc.If the driver has no control over the vehicle then how can they be liable for any loss caused by it? Liability in these cases is down to the manufacturer, not the owner of the vehicle (unless the driver fails to do something that contributes to the loss).
Having said that, you'll probably need some insurance to cover accidental damage from vandals etc.
Having said that, you'll probably need some insurance to cover accidental damage from vandals etc.
Monty Python said:
If the driver has no control over the vehicle then how can they be liable for any loss caused by it? Liability in these cases is down to the manufacturer, not the owner of the vehicle (unless the driver fails to do something that contributes to the loss).
The question of who is at fault is subtly different to the question of who is liable. Monty Python said:
If the driver has no control over the vehicle then how can they be liable for any loss caused by it? Liability in these cases is down to the manufacturer, not the owner of the vehicle (unless the driver fails to do something that contributes to the loss).
Having said that, you'll probably need some insurance to cover accidental damage from vandals etc.
Can you really ever have no control - do you not have to choose to start the car / stop it / open it / close it? At what point did the manufacturer decide that your car would be on that road at that point in time?Having said that, you'll probably need some insurance to cover accidental damage from vandals etc.
it will get very complex!
Monty Python said:
How would you steal one? If you tried to it would either drive straight back home or to the nearest police station :-)
Personally? I'd probably think about a low loader, but I'm not sure if they'd have to have fingerprint technology, or whether there'd be an imaginary driver called Johnny like in Demolition Man. I'd still say there'd be a requirement to insure against theft even if there might not be one for bangs, scrapes and collisions akirk said:
Can you really ever have no control - do you not have to choose to start the car / stop it / open it / close it? At what point did the manufacturer decide that your car would be on that road at that point in time?
it will get very complex!
If the car knows where it is (and I'm guessing GPS will be part of the way it navigates), then it'll know exactly where it is and will probably be programmed with the owner's home location. I'd imagine that only when the car is actually moving under autonomous control would you be free from any liability - after all, at this point you're basically a passenger.it will get very complex!
otolith said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Agree. As any collision will not be the driver's fault, it will be a product liability claim, and down to the manufacturer. So they will need product liability cover to be provided by the manufacturer.
I don't see it that way. I think the person who wishes to use the car on the road will be immediately liable for the consequences, just as with manually driven cars. TwigtheWonderkid said:
otolith said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Agree. As any collision will not be the driver's fault, it will be a product liability claim, and down to the manufacturer. So they will need product liability cover to be provided by the manufacturer.
I don't see it that way. I think the person who wishes to use the car on the road will be immediately liable for the consequences, just as with manually driven cars. If you choose to use a vehicle on the road which may conceivably pose a risk to third parties, you'll have to insure it. You would have to insure it even to park it on the road. I can't see why our insurance framework would be altered for autonomous cars - the person choosing to use it would remain responsible for the consequences of doing so.
otolith said:
His insurer is liable if it gets nicked and causes damage, though.
If you choose to use a vehicle on the road which may conceivably pose a risk to third parties, you'll have to insure it. You would have to insure it even to park it on the road. I can't see why our insurance framework would be altered for autonomous cars - the person choosing to use it would remain responsible for the consequences of doing so.
I'm thinking along similar lines... It's no different to if you're driving today and your brand new car has catastrophic wheel failure due to a manufacturing defect, causing you to plough into the car in front. Your insurance pays out to the third party, then you/your insurers go chasing the manufacturer for the defect, manufacturer then pays you/your insurance.If you choose to use a vehicle on the road which may conceivably pose a risk to third parties, you'll have to insure it. You would have to insure it even to park it on the road. I can't see why our insurance framework would be altered for autonomous cars - the person choosing to use it would remain responsible for the consequences of doing so.
The real change will be to the manufacturers, who will need different level of cover to protect themselves against such claims where the autonomous system malfunctions.
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