RE: Alfa 4C: The Comeback
Discussion
Juve said:
ORD said:
I've driven the Guiletta and the Mito (both very poor).
I drive a Cayman and a 3 series.
(The Skoda Yeti is actually not too bad.)
I had a Guiletta on loan for a week. Very well put together.
How is it you classify it poor is beyond belief!
My last 2 cars were Caymens. Brilliant cars but at the same time very conservative! The 4C has shown me what it truly means to drive a car.
You drive a Skoda Yetti right? Come on! Tell the truth!
I drive a lot of hire cars so I have driven most of its competitors including the Golf and 3 series and I have always been glad to get back in the Alfa. I have never driven a Cayman but I have driven a 911, Nissan GTR, Ferrari F430, Aston DB9 Volante, Spyker, Konigseggggg, Zonda and Gumpert Apollo if that is relevant.
Slippydiff said:
I do, did you actually read the piece ? Others clearly did :
"The tram-lining and heavy then light steering sounds like a geometry issue that should be sortable without too much fuss and the throttle response via software.
Those seats though! what were they thinking!"
That might be good execution in your books (and clearly is the Italians, bless 'em), it's not in mine. The end.
Have you driven the 4C? "The tram-lining and heavy then light steering sounds like a geometry issue that should be sortable without too much fuss and the throttle response via software.
Those seats though! what were they thinking!"
That might be good execution in your books (and clearly is the Italians, bless 'em), it's not in mine. The end.
If not! Your post is utterly worthless. Or, are you the kind of person who makes decisions based around what the other person said!
The end.
Edited by Juve on Sunday 10th May 14:27
Haven't driven one yet, and I have been intrigued to read the global reviews of this car and I must say I am amazed by the differences of opinion.
Those that have actually spent the money and bought in to the 4C experience seem to love the car once familiar with the its characteristics, (which really do seem to be just that i.e. not really any real flaws, but particular tendencies which give the car its own personality).
Personally, I look forward to going for at least an extended drive in one. Cars like these that speak and respond to your inputs to make you smile and laugh are few and far between these days, so I am glad this car exists and as some others have said, the 'dartiness' of the car can be addressed by resetting the geo - something many Lotus Elise/Exige owners seem to be keen to do anyhow (and one wonders why, when it is reported in the British Press 'to have the best ride handling' of any car???).
Its also worth noting that many people who present themselves as 'reviewers' have their own preconceptions and expectations based on their own allegiances and/or what they have become accustomed to. Others have other agendas. (I wouldn't trust an EVO article on it for example - it seems to me it might as well be rebranded 'Porsche Owners Club Magazine').
Some others are saying 'its not an everyday car -pootling along in town is frustrating - so deduct a point etc' Well, who said it was intended to be taken to TESCO??? Its a raw sports car ffs, one to take out on a Sunday, for an unforgettable blast! Take it, or if its too much for you, go for the more conservative alternative.
Take the reviews with a pinch of salt in any event and if you really do have the funds to seriously consider buying a 4C (or any car for that matter), go on an extended drive in one! See if it your cup of tea, or whether you could grow to love it.
The design of the 4C does look to me to be far more impressive than any 'kit-car like' elise/exige, and as Richard Porter says, the car overall seems to really get under your skin once you have acquainted with it. The waiting list for it has not abated either, and I can understand why; it seems to be a modern classic, (one that will inevitably hold its value more than any Elise or Cayman) period.
For me as a second car at least, it would be a real contender.
Those that have actually spent the money and bought in to the 4C experience seem to love the car once familiar with the its characteristics, (which really do seem to be just that i.e. not really any real flaws, but particular tendencies which give the car its own personality).
Personally, I look forward to going for at least an extended drive in one. Cars like these that speak and respond to your inputs to make you smile and laugh are few and far between these days, so I am glad this car exists and as some others have said, the 'dartiness' of the car can be addressed by resetting the geo - something many Lotus Elise/Exige owners seem to be keen to do anyhow (and one wonders why, when it is reported in the British Press 'to have the best ride handling' of any car???).
Its also worth noting that many people who present themselves as 'reviewers' have their own preconceptions and expectations based on their own allegiances and/or what they have become accustomed to. Others have other agendas. (I wouldn't trust an EVO article on it for example - it seems to me it might as well be rebranded 'Porsche Owners Club Magazine').
Some others are saying 'its not an everyday car -pootling along in town is frustrating - so deduct a point etc' Well, who said it was intended to be taken to TESCO??? Its a raw sports car ffs, one to take out on a Sunday, for an unforgettable blast! Take it, or if its too much for you, go for the more conservative alternative.
Take the reviews with a pinch of salt in any event and if you really do have the funds to seriously consider buying a 4C (or any car for that matter), go on an extended drive in one! See if it your cup of tea, or whether you could grow to love it.
The design of the 4C does look to me to be far more impressive than any 'kit-car like' elise/exige, and as Richard Porter says, the car overall seems to really get under your skin once you have acquainted with it. The waiting list for it has not abated either, and I can understand why; it seems to be a modern classic, (one that will inevitably hold its value more than any Elise or Cayman) period.
For me as a second car at least, it would be a real contender.
Mave said:
So you've only driven two models, and they are all exclusively s
t except for the model you haven't actually driven?
2 out of, what, about 5 sold in the UK?t except for the model you haven't actually driven?The G isn't that bad, actually, but I wouldn't have one over a Mazda 3 or 1 series - it isn't class leading in my book. Others can have different opinions.
I've read just about every review of the 4C and none of them have persuaded me that it is worth test-driving. And anyone who buys a car without test-driving it probably shouldn't ask to be taken seriously by other car enthusiasts.
ORD said:
I've read just about every review of the 4C and none of them have persuaded me that it is worth test-driving. And anyone who buys a car without test-driving it probably shouldn't ask to be taken seriously by other car enthusiasts.
Doesn't sound like you've read this one for example:http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-alfa-rome...
Carand Driver said:
You couldn’t place the front tires more precisely if you were sitting between them, and the feel of the wheel suddenly going light out of a corner as the static 40/60 weight balance shifts farther rearward is sports-car stuff we’ve nearly forgotten in the age of compu-steer.
Chelme said:
Personally, I look forward to going for at least an extended drive in one. Cars like these that speak and respond to your inputs to make you smile and laugh are few and far between these days, so I am glad this car exists and as some others have said, the 'dartiness' of the car can be addressed by resetting the geo - something many Lotus Elise/Exige owners seem to be keen to do anyhow (and one wonders why, when it is reported in the British Press 'to have the best ride handling' of any car???).
Because out of the box, most of them are optimised for road use, and some people want to use them on track. Opposite problem to the 4C, it would appear. 
TA14 said:
ORD said:
I've read just about every review of the 4C and none of them have persuaded me that it is worth test-driving. And anyone who buys a car without test-driving it probably shouldn't ask to be taken seriously by other car enthusiasts.
Doesn't sound like you've read this one for example:http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-alfa-rome...
Carand Driver said:
You couldn’t place the front tires more precisely if you were sitting between them, and the feel of the wheel suddenly going light out of a corner as the static 40/60 weight balance shifts farther rearward is sports-car stuff we’ve nearly forgotten in the age of compu-steer.
A reviewer I trust would have to say it is awesome for me to be prepared to give it the benefit of the doubt despite having a very uninspiring engine and gearbox combination.
Does anyone seriously contend that their ultimate sports car would have a sub-2l 4 cyl turbo engine and a dry clutch semi-auto? It's highly compromised from the outset.
ORD said:
Mave said:
So you've only driven two models, and they are all exclusively st except for the model you haven't actually driven?
2 out of, what, about 5 sold in the UK?t except for the model you haven't actually driven?The G isn't that bad, actually, but I wouldn't have one over a Mazda 3 or 1 series - it isn't class leading in my book. Others can have different opinions.
I've read just about every review of the 4C and none of them have persuaded me that it is worth test-driving. And anyone who buys a car without test-driving it probably shouldn't ask to be taken seriously by other car enthusiasts.
t but it isn't actually that badThe only Alfa that isn't exclusively s
t is one you haven't tried and all the reviews you've read suggest its not worth a test drive.And people shouldn't buy a car without a test drive on the strength of a magazine review, but a magazine review is enough to persuade you not to try a test drive?
Mave said:
So... the G is exclusively st but it isn't actually that bad
The only Alfa that isn't exclusively st is one you haven't tried and all the reviews you've read suggest its not worth a test drive.
And people shouldn't buy a car without a test drive on the strength of a magazine review, but a magazine review is enough to persuade you not to try a test drive?
I made quite clear that the engine and gearbox choices left it extremely unlikely to ever interest me in the slightest. t but it isn't actually that badThe only Alfa that isn't exclusively s
t is one you haven't tried and all the reviews you've read suggest its not worth a test drive.And people shouldn't buy a car without a test drive on the strength of a magazine review, but a magazine review is enough to persuade you not to try a test drive?
TA14 said:
ORD said:
I've read just about every review of the 4C and none of them have persuaded me that it is worth test-driving. And anyone who buys a car without test-driving it probably shouldn't ask to be taken seriously by other car enthusiasts.
Doesn't sound like you've read this one for example:http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-alfa-rome...
Carand Driver said:
You couldn’t place the front tires more precisely if you were sitting between them, and the feel of the wheel suddenly going light out of a corner as the static 40/60 weight balance shifts farther rearward is sports-car stuff we’ve nearly forgotten in the age of compu-steer.
What seems to me to have happened is that Alfa do the typical car launch thing - fly journalists out somewhere all expenses paid, wine and dine them, glad-hand them and send them on their way dripping with bags of goodies. At some point they are required to drive a car and report back, and not unnaturally the largesse is rewarded.
Then fast forward a few months and the cars have been delivered to their respective home markets, and the cars are put through a far more thorough test, often in a test taken over a few days and in direct comparison with alternative cars in the same price bracket.
And on that basis, here in the UK, the car has had (to quote Monty Python) a right panning.
So then in time-honored fashion, as has always happened in this situation, the people who have sunk their money into the panned car all slate the journalists. The thinking here is that seasoned, highly experienced professionals who drive and work with cars day in, day out, know less than the private owner whose cars remain stationary for 90% of their respective lives.
Does it really matter anyway?
The owners either like them or can sell them (probably making a profit in the process) and Alfa seem to have no problems selling the as many of the things as they can make to people who haven't driven them anyway. The car might or might not drive well but the simple fact is it doesn't need to anyway because that's not what sells sports cars of this ilk.
The owners either like them or can sell them (probably making a profit in the process) and Alfa seem to have no problems selling the as many of the things as they can make to people who haven't driven them anyway. The car might or might not drive well but the simple fact is it doesn't need to anyway because that's not what sells sports cars of this ilk.
kambites said:
Does it really matter anyway?
The owners either like them or can sell them (probably making a profit in the process) and Alfa seem to have no problems selling the as many of the things as they can make to people who haven't driven them anyway. The car might or might not drive well but the simple fact is it doesn't need to anyway because that's not what sells sports cars of this ilk.
True to an extent. It still has a lot going for it - bold styling, very good pace, specialness, etc.The owners either like them or can sell them (probably making a profit in the process) and Alfa seem to have no problems selling the as many of the things as they can make to people who haven't driven them anyway. The car might or might not drive well but the simple fact is it doesn't need to anyway because that's not what sells sports cars of this ilk.
I also don't think the reviews have been that bad. I would call them 'mixed'. Autocar liked it (although that was Steve Coppley and I don't rate his judgment these days).
otolith said:
I think it's generally the case that the standards journalists judge cars buy and the things they think are important are not a great match for what the buying public cares about.
They normally own cars themselves, and drive much more than we do too. You might be right, but I just know that the last word I would take on anything automotive is that Of Joe Public, unless I knew the individual well.
This is Joe Public the car enthusiast. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftEYlrP4Q3w
Hi all,
What a fascinating thread! Great to see such a mix of opinions and owners contributing too.
FWIW I love the idea of the 4C, I want it to be fantastic, but that car during the time we had it was flawed beyond the point of characterful idiosyncrasies. It remains hugely desirable thing regardless, it would just be even more so with a few problems addressed. Obviously it would be very nice to run a car for a little longer to see what everyday life is like but seems unlikely. As and when there are updates to the car you'll be the first to know.
Cheers!
Matt
What a fascinating thread! Great to see such a mix of opinions and owners contributing too.
FWIW I love the idea of the 4C, I want it to be fantastic, but that car during the time we had it was flawed beyond the point of characterful idiosyncrasies. It remains hugely desirable thing regardless, it would just be even more so with a few problems addressed. Obviously it would be very nice to run a car for a little longer to see what everyday life is like but seems unlikely. As and when there are updates to the car you'll be the first to know.
Cheers!
Matt
If you're a proper car nerd you can learn over time which journos are straight shooters and have decent judgment - it helps to drive the cars that they have reviewed and 'compare notes'. You also learn which reviewers have similar tastes - for example, I know that quite a few reviewers won't be bothered at all by (and often won't even mention) things that annoy me like turbo lag and lifeless steering.
Once you adjust for personal preferences and tune out the things that you know they have to say (e.g. fuel economy bks & Audi love), quote a lot of the major journos give very accurate and fair reviews, in my experience.
We can all spot when a journo is just saying what he has to say because he's been flown halfway around the world and fed and watered by the PR team. A lot of them almost have a code for it - it does 'Blah blah. Interested to try it on British roads'.
Once you adjust for personal preferences and tune out the things that you know they have to say (e.g. fuel economy b
ks & Audi love), quote a lot of the major journos give very accurate and fair reviews, in my experience.We can all spot when a journo is just saying what he has to say because he's been flown halfway around the world and fed and watered by the PR team. A lot of them almost have a code for it - it does 'Blah blah. Interested to try it on British roads'.
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