RE: Alfa 4C: The Comeback
Discussion
Slippydiff said:
I'd suggest you wouldn't know a pure driving machine if it smacked you in the face. Furthermore, your display of cognitive bias makes you look distinctly pathetic.
As for driving one, I wouldn't waste my time, I know it would be found wanting in so many key areas, the drive would be utterly hopeless.
But get back to me when you've driven even a few of the cars I've listed below, then we can discuss "Pure driving machines".
Mk1 Escort Mexico (1st car)
Chevette HS
Opel Ascona 400
E30 M3 Evo 2
Sapphire Cosworth 2WD
Impreza 22B One of the 16 UK cars
964 RS Midnight Blue
964 RS Guards Red
993 RS Guards Red
Impreza P1
Mk1 996 GT3 Zanzibar
964 RS Rubystone
996 GT2 Midnight Blue
Gen 1997 GT3 Meteor Grey
Subaru Impreza WRC car (the 2nd WRC car Prodrive built)
Mk1 996 GT3 Zanzibar (I bought it back ! !)
M3 CSL
996 GT2 Basalt Black (Ohlins, remap, Ruf exhaust)
996 GT3 RS White with Red
Gen 1 997 GT3 Slate Grey
1M Coupe Orange
1M Coupe White AP 6 pots, Sparco race seats install, decat, custom geo set up.
M6 V10
964 RS Ferrari Yellow
Mk1 996 GT3 Black
Until then, keep enjoying what you perceive to be your "Pure drivers car". And perhaps change your username to ParochialJuve
You are what I refer to as a complete tosser!As for driving one, I wouldn't waste my time, I know it would be found wanting in so many key areas, the drive would be utterly hopeless.
But get back to me when you've driven even a few of the cars I've listed below, then we can discuss "Pure driving machines".
Mk1 Escort Mexico (1st car)
Chevette HS
Opel Ascona 400
E30 M3 Evo 2
Sapphire Cosworth 2WD
Impreza 22B One of the 16 UK cars
964 RS Midnight Blue
964 RS Guards Red
993 RS Guards Red
Impreza P1
Mk1 996 GT3 Zanzibar
964 RS Rubystone
996 GT2 Midnight Blue
Gen 1997 GT3 Meteor Grey
Subaru Impreza WRC car (the 2nd WRC car Prodrive built)
Mk1 996 GT3 Zanzibar (I bought it back ! !)
M3 CSL
996 GT2 Basalt Black (Ohlins, remap, Ruf exhaust)
996 GT3 RS White with Red
Gen 1 997 GT3 Slate Grey
1M Coupe Orange
1M Coupe White AP 6 pots, Sparco race seats install, decat, custom geo set up.
M6 V10
964 RS Ferrari Yellow
Mk1 996 GT3 Black
Until then, keep enjoying what you perceive to be your "Pure drivers car". And perhaps change your username to ParochialJuve
You haven't even driven the 4C! Meaning your pathetic comments regarding the 4C are utterly worthless!
Ha ha! I won't bother to list what I have owned/driven in the past as I don't need to stroke my ego to prove a point!
But I'll give you one example mr know it all!
The 4C is a lot more fun to drive than my previous Ferrari F430.
Enough said!
Best you continue dreaming! Fool!
Edited by Juve on Monday 18th May 15:17
cheddar said:
Maybe Alfa will let Autocar have a test car sometime in the near future Dagnut said:
Why is it mental?
The Boxster is far more highly rated, has a more prestigious badge (which sadly matters hugely with buyers), has a proper engine, has a proper gearbox, etc.It's suicide to not price below a car that 90% of idiots will assume is better and the 10% will know is better.
ORD said:
Dagnut said:
Why is it mental?
The Boxster is far more highly rated, has a more prestigious badge (which sadly matters hugely with buyers), has a proper engine, has a proper gearbox, etc.It's suicide to not price below a car that 90% of idiots will assume is better and the 10% will know is better.
It doesn't carry any kudos with me as I think most Alfas were junk but the badge has appeal in the market.
If you think Porsche would produce a car with a carbon tub and sell it for less than the 4c you're mental.
Look how the Cayman was received when it was introduced, and that was from a company would had been making sports cars for 50 years, had boxster already to base it on.
For a first attempt at a sports car(nothing from the 80's is relevant today) I think they've done a pretty good job..a mini super car for 50k..this car is in a different league to a Cayman and boxster in terms of curb appeal.
Dagnut said:
It's not suicide, the car is doing OK..not everyone wants a Porsche, amazing isn't it? I think a lot of people would disagree with the badge statement, in fact I think the Alfa badge on sports car would carry far more kudous with the right person..Fiat were banking on that, people are buying this car despite the journalists reviews and the Porsche fanboys.
It doesn't carry any kudos with me as I think most Alfas were junk but the badge has appeal in the market.
If you think Porsche would produce a car with a carbon tub and sell it for less than the 4c you're mental.
Look how the Cayman was received when it was introduced, and that was from a company would had been making sports cars for 50 years, had boxster already to base it on.
For a first attempt at a sports car(nothing from the 80's is relevant today) I think they've done a pretty good job..a mini super car for 50k..this car is in a different league to a Cayman and boxster in terms of curb appeal.
I would be amazed if that is right.It doesn't carry any kudos with me as I think most Alfas were junk but the badge has appeal in the market.
If you think Porsche would produce a car with a carbon tub and sell it for less than the 4c you're mental.
Look how the Cayman was received when it was introduced, and that was from a company would had been making sports cars for 50 years, had boxster already to base it on.
For a first attempt at a sports car(nothing from the 80's is relevant today) I think they've done a pretty good job..a mini super car for 50k..this car is in a different league to a Cayman and boxster in terms of curb appeal.
We are a tiny minority of buyers. "Sports cars" are not really a category that matters to 90% of the people with enough money to buy a £50k car - they just want an expensive car that will impress the neighbours, etc and be fast. To most such people, "Alfa" is pretty much a meaningless badge - it adorns turds like the Mito!
You would be surprised how many buyers of these kind of cars couldn't tell you which wheels are driven or where the engine is, let alone how it is constructed!
ORD said:
I would be amazed if that is right.
We are a tiny minority of buyers. "Sports cars" are not really a category that matters to 90% of the people with enough money to buy a £50k car - they just want an expensive car that will impress the neighbours, etc and be fast. To most such people, "Alfa" is pretty much a meaningless badge - it adorns turds like the Mito!
You would be surprised how many buyers of these kind of cars couldn't tell you which wheels are driven or where the engine is, let alone how it is constructed!
You're amazed that people love the Alfa badge? Are you new to the car world?We are a tiny minority of buyers. "Sports cars" are not really a category that matters to 90% of the people with enough money to buy a £50k car - they just want an expensive car that will impress the neighbours, etc and be fast. To most such people, "Alfa" is pretty much a meaningless badge - it adorns turds like the Mito!
You would be surprised how many buyers of these kind of cars couldn't tell you which wheels are driven or where the engine is, let alone how it is constructed!
ORD said:
I would be amazed if that is right.
We are a tiny minority of buyers. "Sports cars" are not really a category that matters to 90% of the people with enough money to buy a £50k car - they just want an expensive car that will impress the neighbours, etc and be fast. To most such people, "Alfa" is pretty much a meaningless badge - it adorns turds like the Mito!
You would be surprised how many buyers of these kind of cars couldn't tell you which wheels are driven or where the engine is, let alone how it is constructed!
I Agree with this, wether people on here like it or not, Alfa Romeo is not a prestige brand, to the majority of people they are just run of the mill cars, and Id be surprised if the majority of people know that Alfa Make the 4C, which IMO is a shame but they've done that all to themselves having just 2 average cars available in their range for such a long time.We are a tiny minority of buyers. "Sports cars" are not really a category that matters to 90% of the people with enough money to buy a £50k car - they just want an expensive car that will impress the neighbours, etc and be fast. To most such people, "Alfa" is pretty much a meaningless badge - it adorns turds like the Mito!
You would be surprised how many buyers of these kind of cars couldn't tell you which wheels are driven or where the engine is, let alone how it is constructed!
The other thing to consider is the 4C is the top of the range Alfa and a Boxster is the bottom of the range, as I say wether people agree with it or not, Porsche is far more prestigious brand.
ORD said:
I would be amazed if that is right.
We are a tiny minority of buyers. "Sports cars" are not really a category that matters to 90% of the people with enough money to buy a £50k car - they just want an expensive car that will impress the neighbours, etc and be fast. To most such people, "Alfa" is pretty much a meaningless badge - it adorns turds like the Mito!
You would be surprised how many buyers of these kind of cars couldn't tell you which wheels are driven or where the engine is, let alone how it is constructed!
As somebody who is seriously considering buying one(trying to arrange a test drive at the moment), I am fully aware of all the details of the car and my experience of Alfa owners is that they tend to be very knowledgeable about cars. We are a tiny minority of buyers. "Sports cars" are not really a category that matters to 90% of the people with enough money to buy a £50k car - they just want an expensive car that will impress the neighbours, etc and be fast. To most such people, "Alfa" is pretty much a meaningless badge - it adorns turds like the Mito!
You would be surprised how many buyers of these kind of cars couldn't tell you which wheels are driven or where the engine is, let alone how it is constructed!
The Alfa badge is far more iconic to me than the Porsche badge and the car has a want one factor for me that the Caymen does not have.
I agree that lots of people do not share this view but there are more than enough people who do, for Alfa to be able to sell every 4C they can make and to ensure that second hand 8c prices are still higher than list.
Pooh said:
my experience of Alfa owners is that they tend to be very knowledgeable about cars.
I know someone with an Alfa Mito - they don't know anything about cars, otherwise they might not have bought an Alfa Mito ;-)But to be serious, I know what you are saying, I just personally think you're in a minority. And yes the car is selling out but how many are they making?
chrispmartha said:
ORD said:
I would be amazed if that is right.
We are a tiny minority of buyers. "Sports cars" are not really a category that matters to 90% of the people with enough money to buy a £50k car - they just want an expensive car that will impress the neighbours, etc and be fast. To most such people, "Alfa" is pretty much a meaningless badge - it adorns turds like the Mito!
You would be surprised how many buyers of these kind of cars couldn't tell you which wheels are driven or where the engine is, let alone how it is constructed!
I Agree with this, wether people on here like it or not, Alfa Romeo is not a prestige brand, to the majority of people they are just run of the mill cars, and Id be surprised if the majority of people know that Alfa Make the 4C, which IMO is a shame but they've done that all to themselves having just 2 average cars available in their range for such a long time.We are a tiny minority of buyers. "Sports cars" are not really a category that matters to 90% of the people with enough money to buy a £50k car - they just want an expensive car that will impress the neighbours, etc and be fast. To most such people, "Alfa" is pretty much a meaningless badge - it adorns turds like the Mito!
You would be surprised how many buyers of these kind of cars couldn't tell you which wheels are driven or where the engine is, let alone how it is constructed!
The other thing to consider is the 4C is the top of the range Alfa and a Boxster is the bottom of the range, as I say wether people agree with it or not, Porsche is far more prestigious brand.
Such a typical Porsche owner attitude.."I have a Porsche because its the best car, EVO said so..why would you choose anything else?"
I bet a million quid I would get a far more interesting conversation out of the average 4c owner than a Cayman/Boxster owner.
Dagnut said:
That's not what the point is! the point is Alfa still has appeal to car certain car nuts..to these people ( not me but I get it) the badge is worth far more than Porsche..they don't want a Porsche or give sh!t about people who own them and their opinions.
Such a typical Porsche owner attitude.."I have a Porsche because its the best car, EVO said so..why would you choose anything else?"
I bet a million quid I would get a far more interesting conversation out of the average 4c owner than a Cayman/Boxster owner.
I know Alfa appeals to certain people, and I think its a crying shame what they've done to the line up over the last few years and I hope the 4C brings them back round. Unfortunately from the reviews they've not nailed it as yet, I hope they do in the future.Such a typical Porsche owner attitude.."I have a Porsche because its the best car, EVO said so..why would you choose anything else?"
I bet a million quid I would get a far more interesting conversation out of the average 4c owner than a Cayman/Boxster owner.
I know a few Porsche owners and none of them are as you describe ( I also owned a Porsche and intend to get another next year) the reverse snobbery on here is ridiculous at times.
chrispmartha said:
I know Alfa appeals to certain people, and I think its a crying shame what they've done to the line up over the last few years and I hope the 4C brings them back round. Unfortunately from the reviews they've not nailed it as yet, I hope they do in the future.
I know a few Porsche owners and none of them are as you describe ( I also owned a Porsche and intend to get another next year) the reverse snobbery on here is ridiculous at times.
I've no prejudices against any owners, I'm not brand loyal never will be, but it's always the Porsche owners you go on the attack against new sports cars.I know a few Porsche owners and none of them are as you describe ( I also owned a Porsche and intend to get another next year) the reverse snobbery on here is ridiculous at times.
370z - "Too noisy and cheaply made not as good as Cayman!" - no sh!t its 15 k cheaper!
GT 86 - "No power terrible badge- get a second hand Cayman!" - no sh!t its 20k cheaper!
4C- "no manual way over priced , tram lines and rides terrible (none of them having driven the thing)" - A 50k car with carbon tub and DSG with those looks is over priced? Compared to a Cayman?
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