RE: Volkswagen Golf R: PH Fleet
Discussion
nunpuncher said:
I owned an m135i for almost 2 years and recently picked up a Golf R. Both cars manual 5 door with bog standard suspension.
Despite the differences in configuration they feel remarkably similar. The most notable difference in terms of drive is when pushing on on your average British b road. The golf is a lot better set up for this. The BMW just never settles with a wierd accumulated wallow type sensation like the damper rebound and spring rate aren't matched. I'm led to believe the adaptive suspension sorts this.
All in you can't really go wrong with either. However, if you really want hot hatch fun I recon you need to go down a size to a fiesta St, pug 208 gti etc. The bigger cars aren't really like hot hatched anymore.
Interesting to hear from someone who has run both cars and I agree with your quote "if you really want hot hatch fun you need to go down a size" As you said they are both very good cars. Personally I don't view these as 'hot hatches' although technically that's what they are. These are both far more grown up/all rounders, almost mini GT cars with their all round abilities and relative refinement. I am 40 something and these are the only 2 'hot hatches' or performance cars of this size I would consider as all the others are a little - shall we say less discreet? Despite the differences in configuration they feel remarkably similar. The most notable difference in terms of drive is when pushing on on your average British b road. The golf is a lot better set up for this. The BMW just never settles with a wierd accumulated wallow type sensation like the damper rebound and spring rate aren't matched. I'm led to believe the adaptive suspension sorts this.
All in you can't really go wrong with either. However, if you really want hot hatch fun I recon you need to go down a size to a fiesta St, pug 208 gti etc. The bigger cars aren't really like hot hatched anymore.
Small/fast/classy & practical for around £30k-ish - bargain...
I'm not far off that age and have all the associated baggage (young kids). I would have had a Fiesta ST but part of the reason for the change was that the M135i was just a little claustrophobic with all 4 of the family onboard so the fiesta only made that problem worse. (cost cutting and just fancying a change were the other reasons).
Despite being the equivalent size the Golf does have a fair bit more space for both passengers and the driver. Rear leg room is better, the rear bench doesn't have the silly big wheel arch clearing bulge of the BMW so much better for child seats/boosters. The rear door aperture is much more accessible for buckling kids in and out. In the front the car feels wider, you don't feel almost squashed in by the door and the footwell space is much better. There is also a fair bit more storage in the golf. However, I will say that surprisingly the BMW does have a much more useful boot. The golf boot is deceptively useless in that it looks reasonable until you put a few things in and realise it's almost full.
Despite being the equivalent size the Golf does have a fair bit more space for both passengers and the driver. Rear leg room is better, the rear bench doesn't have the silly big wheel arch clearing bulge of the BMW so much better for child seats/boosters. The rear door aperture is much more accessible for buckling kids in and out. In the front the car feels wider, you don't feel almost squashed in by the door and the footwell space is much better. There is also a fair bit more storage in the golf. However, I will say that surprisingly the BMW does have a much more useful boot. The golf boot is deceptively useless in that it looks reasonable until you put a few things in and realise it's almost full.
I think its the best all round performance car in general... hear me out.
Its a 32K car with DSG. (lets ignore the de-valuing lease deals)
0-60 - 4.5s as tested by top gear and others.
AWD makes the performance usable ALL YEAR, it was incredibly good in the snow even on summer tyres something RWD cars just cannot compete with.
It does the boring stuff very well with absolutely no drama, it doesn't do it flamboyantly or in your face its all very very German.
Its not the most exciting to drive day-to-day, its certainly not a straight line monster but when you really try and push this car far beyond your limits on a B-Road it truly stands out.
The R's far more capable than I and although some may say an M135i has RWD and sounds much better, and there's no doubting it does, it will also make you drive it at 8/10ths mainly because of fear the back end may overtake you and kill everyone in the car, especially in the wet!
Yes the car would have been better with 2 big ovals like the RS3 and with a 5POT like the RS3, heck why not get the RS3.. the 10K + premium that's why.
So to conclude this fan boys reply, for £32k its extremely hard to beat when you factor in all the boring stuff including any all weather driving.
Its a 32K car with DSG. (lets ignore the de-valuing lease deals)
0-60 - 4.5s as tested by top gear and others.
AWD makes the performance usable ALL YEAR, it was incredibly good in the snow even on summer tyres something RWD cars just cannot compete with.
It does the boring stuff very well with absolutely no drama, it doesn't do it flamboyantly or in your face its all very very German.
Its not the most exciting to drive day-to-day, its certainly not a straight line monster but when you really try and push this car far beyond your limits on a B-Road it truly stands out.
The R's far more capable than I and although some may say an M135i has RWD and sounds much better, and there's no doubting it does, it will also make you drive it at 8/10ths mainly because of fear the back end may overtake you and kill everyone in the car, especially in the wet!
Yes the car would have been better with 2 big ovals like the RS3 and with a 5POT like the RS3, heck why not get the RS3.. the 10K + premium that's why.
So to conclude this fan boys reply, for £32k its extremely hard to beat when you factor in all the boring stuff including any all weather driving.
AdamBingley said:
...because of fear the back end may overtake you and kill everyone in the car, especially in the wet!
TBH I find this sort of statement concerning. - The reality is that the M135i is a mainstream model and as such isn't set-up like some knife-edge track car. In my experience their everyday cars won't "try to kill you" etc. and realistically will only really step out of line when you're deliberately taking liberties after turning the stability control off. If you are deliberately provoking it (and I've been there), then surely the point is you want it to start sliding about? If you push the Golf too far with the stability control off, it's tyres too will let go, just in a different way.The reason I say "concerning" is that you imply you're afraid of the car, talking as if you have no control or say in whether it's going to spit you off the road. Does that mean you don't realise when you're pushing too hard?
Personally, and all other things being equal, RWD / rear-biased AWD feels more natural to me & I feel I have more control over the car at the limits of adhesion, even in cases where those limits are lower.
AdamBingley said:
The R's far more capable than I and although some may say an M135i has RWD and sounds much better, and there's no doubting it does, it will also make you drive it at 8/10ths mainly because of fear the back end may overtake you and kill everyone in the car, especially in the wet!
So it's better to drive the golf, which you don't know the limits of at 10/10ths, in the wet, with passengers on board that when it does let go you'll have no idea it was going to go and no clue what to do about it.Sounds like a great plan.
Clivey said:
TBH I find this sort of statement concerning. - The reality is that the M135i is a mainstream model and as such isn't set-up like some knife-edge track car. In my experience their everyday cars won't "try to kill you" etc. and realistically will only really step out of line when you're deliberately taking liberties after turning the stability control off. If you are deliberately provoking it (and I've been there), then surely the point is you want it to start sliding about? If you push the Golf too far with the stability control off, it's tyres too will let go, just in a different way.
The reason I say "concerning" is that you imply you're afraid of the car, talking as if you have no control or say in whether it's going to spit you off the road. Does that mean you don't realise when you're pushing too hard?
Personally, and all other things being equal, RWD / rear-biased AWD feels more natural to me & I feel I have more control over the car at the limits of adhesion, even in cases where those limits are lower.
to be honest i've only witnessed this fear of control in an E46 M3, E92 M3, E60 M5 im guessing its more similar to the E46 and that was very Leary even on a straight in the damp when pushing it so i fail to see the issue..The reason I say "concerning" is that you imply you're afraid of the car, talking as if you have no control or say in whether it's going to spit you off the road. Does that mean you don't realise when you're pushing too hard?
Personally, and all other things being equal, RWD / rear-biased AWD feels more natural to me & I feel I have more control over the car at the limits of adhesion, even in cases where those limits are lower.
If your on a track that's a different matter but to drive for enjoyment on a public road i find the RWD cars more of a hindrance.
Clivey said:
AdamBingley said:
...because of fear the back end may overtake you and kill everyone in the car, especially in the wet!
TBH I find this sort of statement concerning. - The reality is that the M135i is a mainstream model and as such isn't set-up like some knife-edge track car. In my experience their everyday cars won't "try to kill you" etc. and realistically will only really step out of line when you're deliberately taking liberties after turning the stability control off. If you are deliberately provoking it (and I've been there), then surely the point is you want it to start sliding about? If you push the Golf too far with the stability control off, it's tyres too will let go, just in a different way.The reason I say "concerning" is that you imply you're afraid of the car, talking as if you have no control or say in whether it's going to spit you off the road. Does that mean you don't realise when you're pushing too hard?
Personally, and all other things being equal, RWD / rear-biased AWD feels more natural to me & I feel I have more control over the car at the limits of adhesion, even in cases where those limits are lower.
nunpuncher said:
I owned an m135i for almost 2 years and recently picked up a Golf R. Both cars manual 5 door with bog standard suspension.
Despite the differences in configuration they feel remarkably similar. The most notable difference in terms of drive is when pushing on on your average British b road. The golf is a lot better set up for this. The BMW just never settles with a wierd accumulated wallow type sensation like the damper rebound and spring rate aren't matched. I'm led to believe the adaptive suspension sorts this.
I think it's because the rebound stiffness isn't stiff enough to control the body as it moves up, so it 'overshoots' (causing the floaty feeling) and then settles. The faster the speed the worse it gets, as bumps will move the suspension faster. I'm surprised this is a problem on some modern cars, as the chassis are so stiff now.Despite the differences in configuration they feel remarkably similar. The most notable difference in terms of drive is when pushing on on your average British b road. The golf is a lot better set up for this. The BMW just never settles with a wierd accumulated wallow type sensation like the damper rebound and spring rate aren't matched. I'm led to believe the adaptive suspension sorts this.
Dale487 said:
thespannerman said:
As other members have been saying... Looks better in red with the more normal wheels IMO
Couldn't care about speed, times, cornering etc. I'd still take an M135i! The 'R' just seems too 'chavvy' for me!
I'd take the GTI Golf (preferably the Performance Pack one) or the Seat Leon FR over the Golf R from the same reason.Couldn't care about speed, times, cornering etc. I'd still take an M135i! The 'R' just seems too 'chavvy' for me!
Or even better spend the money on a second hand 981 Cayman or Boxster.
The R doesn't feel as fast as I thought it would compared to the GTI, it's obviously faster but deceptive as it's the mid range shove and the way the power and speed keep on building that's the most noticeable. I thought the M135i I had a few months ago felt faster however that may be because it's not as polished so there's more sense of speed. I also think the M135i has a better gearbox than the R although both felt better than the DSG in the GTI for some reason. The R is also brand new and may get quicker with age. Both BMW and GTI were ex-demos.
The ride is pretty much the same between the golfs and better than the BMW (standard suspension), both VWs were dcc cars, if anything the R rides the best of all three.
Noise, again similar between golfs, but better in the R compared to the GTI (albeit largely synthesised) - love the blips and pops. M135i wins here though.
Handling and cornering ability, too similar to judge at the moment between golfs, need to have it for longer to make a decent comparison. I think the M135i will have it for fun factor but surprisingly little in it.
The GTI is underrated IMO.
Clivey said:
TBH I find this sort of statement concerning. - The reality is that the M135i is a mainstream model and as such isn't set-up like some knife-edge track car. In my experience their everyday cars won't "try to kill you" etc. and realistically will only really step out of line when you're deliberately taking liberties after turning the stability control off. If you are deliberately provoking it (and I've been there), then surely the point is you want it to start sliding about? If you push the Golf too far with the stability control off, it's tyres too will let go, just in a different way.
The reason I say "concerning" is that you imply you're afraid of the car, talking as if you have no control or say in whether it's going to spit you off the road. Does that mean you don't realise when you're pushing too hard?
Personally, and all other things being equal, RWD / rear-biased AWD feels more natural to me & I feel I have more control over the car at the limits of adhesion, even in cases where those limits are lower.
Yes, my M135i never felt like it was going to suddenly swap ends. I did have a play in a safe (non public road, not even a road actually) area with plenty of run off and I actually found the car took quite a bit of provocation even with the TC fully off. When it did go it was far from snap oversteer and was relatively easy to catch all be it rather clumsy feeling due to lack of LSD.The reason I say "concerning" is that you imply you're afraid of the car, talking as if you have no control or say in whether it's going to spit you off the road. Does that mean you don't realise when you're pushing too hard?
Personally, and all other things being equal, RWD / rear-biased AWD feels more natural to me & I feel I have more control over the car at the limits of adhesion, even in cases where those limits are lower.
I dare say you could spin it to the point of no return on a wet road but you would really have to be driving without any common sense what so ever.
iloveboost said:
I think it's because the rebound stiffness isn't stiff enough to control the body as it moves up, so it 'overshoots' (causing the floaty feeling) and then settles. The faster the speed the worse it gets, as bumps will move the suspension faster. I'm surprised this is a problem on some modern cars, as the chassis are so stiff now.
It could well be. The suspension feels perfect around town and on a smooth motorway, there's no excessive roll. It's just this odd slow bob that seems to accumulate as you go faster giving the car less time to settle between undulations in the road surface. I would often find myself backing off on straights, gripping the wheel tighter than is normal.I've covered just over 7K miles on the G7R since November last year and it's been a great all round car, which it should be it's still a Golf after all. However, I'm so sure it feels like a 300 bhp car, if it wasn't so wet all the time on the west coast of Scotland I think I'd be looking at the Cupra or GTI.
Things that annoy me on this Golf R:
The brake pedal sitting higher than the accelerator pedal - Why VW just.. WHY? Do all DSG mk7 golfs have this?
For some reason the transition from 1st gear to 2nd tends to bog down the car if not accelerating hard enough, don't know if it's just my car or not?
Not that I'm that bothered but I'm averaging around 23mpg, I drive the DSG in manual mode with flappy paddles and engine in sport mode all the time so not unexpected really but my wife's ST220 Mondeo does marginally better than this!
Last but not least, that dam sound actuator, why VW didn't allow personal control of the volume on this I don't know but I think I'll be disconnecting it soon, though I believe some VW garages can reduce the volume for you if requested.
Things that annoy me on this Golf R:
The brake pedal sitting higher than the accelerator pedal - Why VW just.. WHY? Do all DSG mk7 golfs have this?
For some reason the transition from 1st gear to 2nd tends to bog down the car if not accelerating hard enough, don't know if it's just my car or not?
Not that I'm that bothered but I'm averaging around 23mpg, I drive the DSG in manual mode with flappy paddles and engine in sport mode all the time so not unexpected really but my wife's ST220 Mondeo does marginally better than this!
Last but not least, that dam sound actuator, why VW didn't allow personal control of the volume on this I don't know but I think I'll be disconnecting it soon, though I believe some VW garages can reduce the volume for you if requested.
Clivey said:
AdamBingley said:
...because of fear the back end may overtake you and kill everyone in the car, especially in the wet!
TBH I find this sort of statement concerning. - The reality is that the M135i is a mainstream model and as such isn't set-up like some knife-edge track car. In my experience their everyday cars won't "try to kill you" etc. and realistically will only really step out of line when you're deliberately taking liberties after turning the stability control off. If you are deliberately provoking it (and I've been there), then surely the point is you want it to start sliding about? If you push the Golf too far with the stability control off, it's tyres too will let go, just in a different way.The reason I say "concerning" is that you imply you're afraid of the car, talking as if you have no control or say in whether it's going to spit you off the road. Does that mean you don't realise when you're pushing too hard?
Personally, and all other things being equal, RWD / rear-biased AWD feels more natural to me & I feel I have more control over the car at the limits of adhesion, even in cases where those limits are lower.
I've followed 1 series numerous times and been shocked at how stiff the rear end is setup on those things. You can see it bobbing up and down on minor bumps that other cars glide over completely unphased.
Wobbs said:
Last but not least, that dam sound actuator, why VW didn't allow personal control of the volume on this I don't know but I think I'll be disconnecting it soon, though I believe some VW garages can reduce the volume for you if requested.
It's a ludicrous noise. I reduced the volume using VCDS to 0%. Much improved now, plus I can hear the DSG exhaust farts better.Edited by court on Wednesday 13th May 14:52
samro said:
kmack said:
and an edition 30 mapped to 310mph
Wow! That's pretty impressive stuff! Some remap!!Edited by kmack on Tuesday 12th May 19:28
AdamBingley said:
I think its the best all round performance car in general... hear me out.
Its a 32K car with DSG. (lets ignore the de-valuing lease deals)
0-60 - 4.5s as tested by top gear and others.
AWD makes the performance usable ALL YEAR, it was incredibly good in the snow even on summer tyres something RWD cars just cannot compete with.
It does the boring stuff very well with absolutely no drama, it doesn't do it flamboyantly or in your face its all very very German.
Its not the most exciting to drive day-to-day, its certainly not a straight line monster but when you really try and push this car far beyond your limits on a B-Road it truly stands out.
The R's far more capable than I and although some may say an M135i has RWD and sounds much better, and there's no doubting it does, it will also make you drive it at 8/10ths mainly because of fear the back end may overtake you and kill everyone in the car, especially in the wet!
Yes the car would have been better with 2 big ovals like the RS3 and with a 5POT like the RS3, heck why not get the RS3.. the 10K + premium that's why.
So to conclude this fan boys reply, for £32k its extremely hard to beat when you factor in all the boring stuff including any all weather driving.
I cant argue with any of that and I have a M135I. I personally prefer the feeling of rear wheel drive as it - as others have said, feels more natural and more fun but I must admit I do get frustrated sometimes in the wet when you cant get the power down, especially as my previous 3 cars have been 4 wheel drive.Its a 32K car with DSG. (lets ignore the de-valuing lease deals)
0-60 - 4.5s as tested by top gear and others.
AWD makes the performance usable ALL YEAR, it was incredibly good in the snow even on summer tyres something RWD cars just cannot compete with.
It does the boring stuff very well with absolutely no drama, it doesn't do it flamboyantly or in your face its all very very German.
Its not the most exciting to drive day-to-day, its certainly not a straight line monster but when you really try and push this car far beyond your limits on a B-Road it truly stands out.
The R's far more capable than I and although some may say an M135i has RWD and sounds much better, and there's no doubting it does, it will also make you drive it at 8/10ths mainly because of fear the back end may overtake you and kill everyone in the car, especially in the wet!
Yes the car would have been better with 2 big ovals like the RS3 and with a 5POT like the RS3, heck why not get the RS3.. the 10K + premium that's why.
So to conclude this fan boys reply, for £32k its extremely hard to beat when you factor in all the boring stuff including any all weather driving.
I am toying with the idea of the new RS3 but I'm not sure if its worth the extra money or if there would be a significant performance advantage?
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