Company Car-A220 AMG Line CDi vs. Ford Focus St2 TDCi

[Nickbrapp]

Hitch78 said:

They're the main bits aren't they?!

Well you don't look at the Seats when you're driving

[al1977]

Nickbrapp said:

I thought the a class interor was a bit pants the seats and wheel are nice but what's with the mass of fake alumimum trim running the length of the dash? Also it's not a good looking car it's just a blob. What about a golf gtd?

The focus is more pleasing to look at and to drive but the quality will be a bit worse.

Each to their own, the world would be a boring place if we all liked the same thing!! I can't stand the look of the Focus although I agree, from some angles the A Class can look out of proportion.

In my opinion the Golf is a bit dull on the outside, very dull on the inside and drove as dull as it looked. It wasn't bad as such it just was very meh if you get where i'm coming from, the A3 was a similar story, the Volvo as ever seems really well put together but it didn't feel that great to drive. Just as a heads up, the AMG Line trim doesn't have the aluminium trim across the length of the dash you mentioned (i know which one you mean and agree it looks odd/wrong/cheap), instead it has the carbon fibre look and I personally like it.

[LukeST]

Did you decide?

I have just collected mine this week, over the moon with it

[culpz]

I'm sorry but i'm part of the "anti-diesel ST" brigade. I don't care how well it drives no sporty badge should ever be attached to an oil-burner. By all means get a Focus ST but it would have to be the proper petrol variant. Just my opinion and probably not helping your decision.

For me if i ever go down the diesel route it would be a German manufacturer every time. Just because if i have to have something to comfortably chew up the miles with no issues it would go hand-in-hand.

The new A-Classes are lovely. My only issue with them is you see them absolutely everywhere! But there's a good reason for that. If it's between those 2 i'd definitely go for the Merc. AS a company car i don't think you'd regret it.

[airsafari87]

Of the 2 you mentioned I'd be more swayed towards the A Class, that is if you can live with the `Lewis Hamilton' interior.

A diesel Focus ST is just wrong, and they look so cheap in that god awful blue/purple colour.

As has been mentioned a few times already in this thread I'd take a look at the V40 too. Dynamically they may not be quite on par with the A Class or Focus but for the type of journeys I assume you're going to be doing it might well be a nicer place to be?

[The Surveyor]

culpz said:

I'm sorry but i'm part of the "anti-diesel ST" brigade. I don't care how well it drives no sporty badge should ever be attached to an oil-burner. By all means get a Focus ST but it would have to be the proper petrol variant. Just my opinion and probably not helping your decision.

For me if i ever go down the diesel route it would be a German manufacturer every time. Just because if i have to have something to comfortably chew up the miles with no issues it would go hand-in-hand.

The new A-Classes are lovely. My only issue with them is you see them absolutely everywhere! But there's a good reason for that. If it's between those 2 i'd definitely go for the Merc. AS a company car i don't think you'd regret it.

/\ /\ This. With a diesel engine in both, the 'ST' badge is just a trim level in the same way you're not getting a throbbing V8 in the A Class AMG. So you are comparing a Merc A-Class against a Ford Focus, not an AMG against an ST so don't compare based upon any rally heritage or F1 success! Also, I've had a diesel V60 for the last 2 years and 55k miles. Nice relaxing car to drive but don't believe the MPG claims, the equivalent VW / Audi diesel MPG claims are much more realistic.

[C.A.R.]

This thread made me realise only one thing; the current crop of hatchbacks is incredibly boring! / there are no outstanding features on any of them.

[ZX10R NIN]

culpz said:

I'm sorry but i'm part of the "anti-diesel ST" brigade. I don't care how well it drives no sporty badge should ever be attached to an oil-burner. By all means get a Focus ST but it would have to be the proper petrol variant. Just my opinion and probably not helping your decision.

For me if i ever go down the diesel route it would be a German manufacturer every time. Just because if i have to have something to comfortably chew up the miles with no issues it would go hand-in-hand.

The new A-Classes are lovely. My only issue with them is you see them absolutely everywhere! But there's a good reason for that. If it's between those 2 i'd definitely go for the Merc. AS a company car i don't think you'd regret it.

So you don't believe any Diesel can have a sporty badge or a Diesel can't be sporty?

If you're saying the later, I give you this, my OH loves hers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoRAeL8qgSM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UidWpRBfH4Y

[btcc123]

The two best cars in the class are the Golf GTD and the new Focus ST.With a choice of either of them you would be mad to get the Merc.

[culpz]

ZX10R NIN said:

culpz said:

I'm sorry but i'm part of the "anti-diesel ST" brigade. I don't care how well it drives no sporty badge should ever be attached to an oil-burner. By all means get a Focus ST but it would have to be the proper petrol variant. Just my opinion and probably not helping your decision.

For me if i ever go down the diesel route it would be a German manufacturer every time. Just because if i have to have something to comfortably chew up the miles with no issues it would go hand-in-hand.

The new A-Classes are lovely. My only issue with them is you see them absolutely everywhere! But there's a good reason for that. If it's between those 2 i'd definitely go for the Merc. AS a company car i don't think you'd regret it.

So you don't believe any Diesel can have a sporty badge or a Diesel can't be sporty?

If you're saying the later, I give you this, my OH loves hers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoRAeL8qgSM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UidWpRBfH4Y

Both lead onto the same point. I don't believe any diesel should have a sporty badge attached to it because they simply aren't.

That's brilliant and i am very happy for her. Still doesn't detract from my point. My dad owns a BMW 535D M Sport Touring remapped to around 360 BHP and a daft amount of torque. He loves it and and it's so fast and capable and still returns good MPG for its power. But it's still a diesel. It's a fast mile-muncher and that's it. Even he admits it's no sports car and wouldn't call it sporty. If he didn't do the miles he does he would have gone for an M5.

See what i'm getting at?

[GreatGranny]

C.A.R. said:

This thread made me realise only one thing; the current crop of hatchbacks is incredibly boring! / there are no outstanding features on any of them.

Really?

I think it shows that the choice is excellent if you want a practical diesel car which will be quick enough to enjoy, handle well, take a family away for the week, look good and be cheap to run either privately or as a company car.

Gone are the day when the most powerful diesel available was a 130bhp TDi Golf/Passat etc...

[ZX10R NIN]

culpz said:

Both lead onto the same point. I don't believe any diesel should have a sporty badge attached to it because they simply aren't.

That's brilliant and i am very happy for her. Still doesn't detract from my point. My dad owns a BMW 535D M Sport Touring remapped to around 360 BHP and a daft amount of torque. He loves it and and it's so fast and capable and still returns good MPG for its power. But it's still a diesel. It's a fast mile-muncher and that's it. Even he admits it's no sports car and wouldn't call it sporty. If he didn't do the miles he does he would have gone for an M5.

See what i'm getting at?

You need to drive one it's more sporty than a 335i & it is as much fun as an M3, I had my M3 four months I didn't gel with it but I have to say the D3 is more fun.

I will concede a B3 would be better than the D3 but a diesel can be sporty.

[FlybyWyre]

I have a Focus 163 TDCi Estate. Loads of buttons, parks itself and has wonderful headlamps.
Did use a MB E250 AMG (I think that means nicer wheels)

Anyhow I prefer the Focus. The 163 TDCi Titanium X (?) is similar to the STD or ST TDCi and has super torque which is good for the hills around me, relaxed M way capability and does make you feel you are driving.

I was going to get an A220 but the E class put me off (same engine). Nice place to be, good on M ways but somehow not a drivers car. The MB showed a fantastically impressive 56 mpg figure on the trip computer and the Focus 44mpg. I still don't know which to believe.

Maybe a Focus will not feel as good as the A in 3 years time, but you won't care I guess.

[culpz]

ZX10R NIN said:

culpz said:

Both lead onto the same point. I don't believe any diesel should have a sporty badge attached to it because they simply aren't.

That's brilliant and i am very happy for her. Still doesn't detract from my point. My dad owns a BMW 535D M Sport Touring remapped to around 360 BHP and a daft amount of torque. He loves it and and it's so fast and capable and still returns good MPG for its power. But it's still a diesel. It's a fast mile-muncher and that's it. Even he admits it's no sports car and wouldn't call it sporty. If he didn't do the miles he does he would have gone for an M5.

See what i'm getting at?

You need to drive one it's more sporty than a 335i & it is as much fun as an M3, I had my M3 four months I didn't gel with it but I have to say the D3 is more fun.

I will concede a B3 would be better than the D3 but a diesel can be sporty.

I do need to try one. I really want a drive of my old man's but haven't had the opportunity to with all the miles and long trips he does which leaves him away from home alot of the time. You've driven both so you will have a much better outset than me.

Think we'll have to agree to disagree though on this occasion. Fun is completely different things to different people and i'm not diesel bashing here but i don't think any diesel can be more fun than the equivalent petrol.

I think it's easy to get side-tracked with these powerful diesel variants of BMWs. Just because it's RWD doesn't make it sporty. If it has a very narrow power band while making a very agricultural noise at the same time it most definitely isn't sporty. Just because it might have more torque than the petrol doesn't make it sporty.

Part of fun for me is having a high revving petrol which fills the air with a glorious soundtrack as the revs climb higher. RWD is a bonus on top of that. I don't care if the diesel is quicker in the real world when it sounds so dull and you get all the power in huge lumps. Think with a diesel you're forced more into an automatic to get the most out of it. My idea of fun is having a stick and clutch and be involved in the process.

I've driven enough diesels to know how they feel and if i can get any enjoyment out of them. It's just not for me. They serve a purpose as far as i'm concerned and that's about it. I'd even take a smaller engine/lowered powered petrol to a diesel as i don't think it's all about power either.

[jcelee]

Given massive motorway mileage, do you not want one of the bigger, more stable cars with a longer wheelbase? (providing all the phone integration etc works well) Also ensuring its not underpowered and has cruise etc.

An A-class is still little more than a supermini in size right? The B-class being more of a posh Golf rival?

[ZX10R NIN]

culpz said:

I do need to try one. I really want a drive of my old man's but haven't had the opportunity to with all the miles and long trips he does which leaves him away from home alot of the time. You've driven both so you will have a much better outset than me.

Think we'll have to agree to disagree though on this occasion. Fun is completely different things to different people and i'm not diesel bashing here but i don't think any diesel can be more fun than the equivalent petrol.

I think it's easy to get side-tracked with these powerful diesel variants of BMWs. Just because it's RWD doesn't make it sporty. If it has a very narrow power band while making a very agricultural noise at the same time it most definitely isn't sporty. Just because it might have more torque than the petrol doesn't make it sporty.

Part of fun for me is having a high revving petrol which fills the air with a glorious soundtrack as the revs climb higher. RWD is a bonus on top of that. I don't care if the diesel is quicker in the real world when it sounds so dull and you get all the power in huge lumps. Think with a diesel you're forced more into an automatic to get the most out of it. My idea of fun is having a stick and clutch and be involved in the process.

I've driven enough diesels to know how they feel and if i can get any enjoyment out of them. It's just not for me. They serve a purpose as far as i'm concerned and that's about it. I'd even take a smaller engine/lowered powered petrol to a diesel as i don't think it's all about power either.

The engine for me is the Cherry on top of having a sweet chassis, I agree that having a petrol engine with a decent engine note (this is somewhere the new M3 falls down IMO) but a good chassis is important to.

[All that jazz]

CYMR0 said:

I've not driven either with that engine, but I have driven cooking versions.

I think I'd go for the Merc - it handles tidily, though the ride can be harsh on bigger wheels. It definitely feels much better put together (not just in terms of build quality, but the way the car feels overall and on smooth surfaces, it's the more relaxing car to drive.

Without having tried the hot Ford, I suspect that it will feel much looser, but will be more rewarding to drive when pressing on.

If the Merc has the 18" AMG wheels then I've driven both and currently own a Focus ST-3 250 on 18s. The ride is the Merc is absolutely horrendous except on the very smoothest roads. Take it down a typical urban road with ruts and patches everywhere and you'll be sick to death of the constant crashing and banging after 5 mins. In contrast my Focus on 235/40/18s rides superbly over the same roads with no need to brace myself for the impact when a pothole suddenly looms like you have to do in the Merc.

One thing perhaps worth mentioning about the Focus STs is that they are not for powerfully built company directors as you simply won't fit in the seat. I am 6'3 and 15.5 stone and a touch overweight but no chubster by any stretch of the imagination, but it's a struggle for me to fit my back between the bolsters half way up the backrest. It is very comfortable once the cushioning softens up a bit but if you're on the larger side then definitely drive one (or at least sit in one) before you commit or you could be making a big mistake.

As for the quality the Focus is perfectly decent enough - especially in ST-3 spec with full leather. The centre console comes in for a lot of criticism and yes aesthetically it could've been done better, but it's solid enough but more importantly perfectly functionable. They handle and ride very well and I like mine a lot.

[sanf]

Great responses and pointers - many thanks. Been away on holiday for a bit, just catching up .

On the petrol vs. diesel argument - I agree that petrol engines tend to be more fun. In this case I have to work within the constraints of the car scheme. The business I work for wants people to focus on lower emission cars - so I believe all the cars on the list are diesel, hence needing to go for one. All I'm trying to do is decide the best car from the list I have available.

Fear not - I've got the Impreza Sti (Rally car) in the garage and will be buying my good lady a petrol 4x4 (likely to be a 3.2 V6 XC90) - so still have plenty of petrol fun . As an aside I ran a Merc C320cdi in 2010 for 15 months - that was an amazing diesel performance car, and didn't sound too bad. My cousin had an M3 at the same time, mid range the Merc was just as quick. When I had a chance to drive the M3 it was far more engaging and sounded awesome. However the Merc was a cracking car (if a tad expensive to run on Brakes & tyres )-although of all the cars I've run over the last 15 years the Merc was the only one to have a major mechanical failure.

Diesels will never sound as good as the Petrol's - but I believe I'm right in saying that Ford have created better sounding acoustics in the car - so it sounds like your driving the petrol. Having charged around after RallyGB in a new Clio Sport for the past 2 years, that has a similar system, and in the car it does sound pretty good.

So based on the fact I have to go for a diesel, the list is still based around the Merc, Ford, Audi etc. The Octavia VRs is on there (but I've had one before), Mazda 3's & 6's. I could go for something bigger and sensible, but the A Class/Focus choice is just a bit more fun. I have given the size thought, the A Class is a small car. I know my kids will fit nicely into the Focus, they have tried it.

As with a lot of company decisions there is a small amount of politics to consider, and one advantage of the Focus is I can order it now, while the Merc will be available to order around Sept....

One of points mentioned.....There are ALOT of A Classes kicking around, so they must be pretty decent, but I do like the fact the Focus ST seems less common, fewer of them about. There is a very nice Blue one often around the south end of Lincoln - I do think it looks very smart and has kerb appeal.

Luckily I'm not a large company director, just a lanky 40 year not so senior Data Consultant, at 6ft2, 13 stone I think the seats will be fine. On the St3 - does it have 3 seatbelts in the back?? One Ford dealer thought on the leather option they ditch one of the belts??

I've also found out I can have it in either of the colour choices I prefer - White/Blue or Tangerine Scream - so I can get it in Orange . Overall the Focus does seem a decent bet - while it's not the top spec it's an ST2 with Nav - full touchscreen, and various other goodies such as heated screen & DAB radio. The only thing it seems to be missing is cruise control, which isn't a major concern. I'm not sure like for like exactly what the Merc will be spec'd as standard - there does seem to be a huge choice of options available.

While on holiday in the states last week I hired a Ford Escape (Kuga in the UK) - ok it was the petrol 2.5 V6, so was pretty nippy, it was actually a really nice car to 'live' with for the week. Well built and a good drive - so a big tick for Ford there.

I just need to decide whether I order the Focus now, or wait 3 months - get a bigger choice and then maybe go for the Merc/something else - or still order the Focus!!

Decisions, Decisions...

[loskie]

The V40 D4 can fairly shift. I was given one when my 138 bhp V50 was in for service. It was on sensible standard 16" wheels. I think the D4 in the V40 is 190 bhp a wee bit less in the V60(184?) I guess to manipulate the co2 figures.

[andrewparker]

Probably been said already but the MK7 Golf GTD is the best car in this class.