Company Car-A220 AMG Line CDi vs. Ford Focus St2 TDCi

[ZX10R NIN]

andrewparker said:

Probably been said already but the MK7 Golf GTD is the best car in this class.

In what way id it the best in class?

It doesn't handle as well as the Focus in terms of cost it's not the best either & then there's the equipment levels.

[All that jazz]

ZX10R NIN said:

In what way id it the best in class?

Because VAG fanboi.

[Axionknight]

loskie said:

The V40 D4 can fairly shift. I was given one when my 138 bhp V50 was in for service. It was on sensible standard 16" wheels. I think the D4 in the V40 is 190 bhp a wee bit less in the V60(184?) I guess to manipulate the co2 figures.

that is a good engine, decent figures on the co2 for it's size/power.

[andrewparker]

ZX10R NIN said:

In what way id it the best in class?

It doesn't handle as well as the Focus in terms of cost it's not the best either & then there's the equipment levels.

Have you looked at the equipment levels? What does it lack? And the discounted costs are within a few hundreds of each other.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/ford/focus/90551/ford...

[andrewparker]

All that jazz said:

ZX10R NIN said:

In what way id it the best in class?

Because VAG fanboi.

There is a bit of that, but I tried the rest and actually wanted the A-Class most of all them.

[culpz]

ZX10R NIN said:

culpz said:

I do need to try one. I really want a drive of my old man's but haven't had the opportunity to with all the miles and long trips he does which leaves him away from home alot of the time. You've driven both so you will have a much better outset than me.

Think we'll have to agree to disagree though on this occasion. Fun is completely different things to different people and i'm not diesel bashing here but i don't think any diesel can be more fun than the equivalent petrol.

I think it's easy to get side-tracked with these powerful diesel variants of BMWs. Just because it's RWD doesn't make it sporty. If it has a very narrow power band while making a very agricultural noise at the same time it most definitely isn't sporty. Just because it might have more torque than the petrol doesn't make it sporty.

Part of fun for me is having a high revving petrol which fills the air with a glorious soundtrack as the revs climb higher. RWD is a bonus on top of that. I don't care if the diesel is quicker in the real world when it sounds so dull and you get all the power in huge lumps. Think with a diesel you're forced more into an automatic to get the most out of it. My idea of fun is having a stick and clutch and be involved in the process.

I've driven enough diesels to know how they feel and if i can get any enjoyment out of them. It's just not for me. They serve a purpose as far as i'm concerned and that's about it. I'd even take a smaller engine/lowered powered petrol to a diesel as i don't think it's all about power either.

The engine for me is the Cherry on top of having a sweet chassis, I agree that having a petrol engine with a decent engine note (this is somewhere the new M3 falls down IMO) but a good chassis is important to.

I did watch a review of the new M3 compared to the new Alpina D3 from Autocar and i'm sure they said the D3 is a better car all round. I generally take these reviews with a pinch of salt but it's still a bit of a surprising conclusion. I think the problem is the M3 doesn't really have any advantages or proper characteristics of a petrol. So i can understand why the diesel version has been praised so highly and almost voids the point of getting the full fat M Car.

Sad times really. I think diesel really is getting to (or already at the point) of surpassing the petrol motor. However i still remain unchanged. However good they are i don't want one and i don't think a test drive in any powerful diesel will change that. I'd only consider if i was doing alot of miles and warranted the use of one. So for me it's more of need than want.

[LukeST]

sanf said:

Great responses and pointers - many thanks. Been away on holiday for a bit, just catching up .

On the petrol vs. diesel argument - I agree that petrol engines tend to be more fun. In this case I have to work within the constraints of the car scheme. The business I work for wants people to focus on lower emission cars - so I believe all the cars on the list are diesel, hence needing to go for one. All I'm trying to do is decide the best car from the list I have available.

Fear not - I've got the Impreza Sti (Rally car) in the garage and will be buying my good lady a petrol 4x4 (likely to be a 3.2 V6 XC90) - so still have plenty of petrol fun . As an aside I ran a Merc C320cdi in 2010 for 15 months - that was an amazing diesel performance car, and didn't sound too bad. My cousin had an M3 at the same time, mid range the Merc was just as quick. When I had a chance to drive the M3 it was far more engaging and sounded awesome. However the Merc was a cracking car (if a tad expensive to run on Brakes & tyres )-although of all the cars I've run over the last 15 years the Merc was the only one to have a major mechanical failure.

Diesels will never sound as good as the Petrol's - but I believe I'm right in saying that Ford have created better sounding acoustics in the car - so it sounds like your driving the petrol. Having charged around after RallyGB in a new Clio Sport for the past 2 years, that has a similar system, and in the car it does sound pretty good.

So based on the fact I have to go for a diesel, the list is still based around the Merc, Ford, Audi etc. The Octavia VRs is on there (but I've had one before), Mazda 3's & 6's. I could go for something bigger and sensible, but the A Class/Focus choice is just a bit more fun. I have given the size thought, the A Class is a small car. I know my kids will fit nicely into the Focus, they have tried it.

As with a lot of company decisions there is a small amount of politics to consider, and one advantage of the Focus is I can order it now, while the Merc will be available to order around Sept....

One of points mentioned.....There are ALOT of A Classes kicking around, so they must be pretty decent, but I do like the fact the Focus ST seems less common, fewer of them about. There is a very nice Blue one often around the south end of Lincoln - I do think it looks very smart and has kerb appeal.

Luckily I'm not a large company director, just a lanky 40 year not so senior Data Consultant, at 6ft2, 13 stone I think the seats will be fine. On the St3 - does it have 3 seatbelts in the back?? One Ford dealer thought on the leather option they ditch one of the belts??

I've also found out I can have it in either of the colour choices I prefer - White/Blue or Tangerine Scream - so I can get it in Orange . Overall the Focus does seem a decent bet - while it's not the top spec it's an ST2 with Nav - full touchscreen, and various other goodies such as heated screen & DAB radio. The only thing it seems to be missing is cruise control, which isn't a major concern. I'm not sure like for like exactly what the Merc will be spec'd as standard - there does seem to be a huge choice of options available.

While on holiday in the states last week I hired a Ford Escape (Kuga in the UK) - ok it was the petrol 2.5 V6, so was pretty nippy, it was actually a really nice car to 'live' with for the week. Well built and a good drive - so a big tick for Ford there.

I just need to decide whether I order the Focus now, or wait 3 months - get a bigger choice and then maybe go for the Merc/something else - or still order the Focus!!

Decisions, Decisions...

Interesting read pal!

Message me if you need anything regarding the ST-2.

[ZX10R NIN]

Brand New Unregistered GTD & ST3 nigh on the same spec but there's a bit of a price difference.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

Lol messed that up

Edited by ZX10R NIN on Friday 5th June 18:32

[andrewparker]

They're both links to Golfs...

Have to changed your mind to on the spec level? Not as bad as you perceived it to be?

Edited by andrewparker on Friday 5th June 18:11

[Jonny_]

ZX10R NIN said:

In what way id it the best in class?

It doesn't handle as well as the Focus in terms of cost it's not the best either & then there's the equipment levels.

And the engine noise. Don't know if it's a result of the engine mountings in the Golf, or the particular version of the 2.0 TDi in the newer VWs, but the 150bhp TDi I drove and a colleague's GTD (both 14 plate cars) rattled and vibrated quite unpleasantly at idle and at low engine speeds.

Neither one is anything special in terms of driving, and other than the seats on the GTD the interior, although solid, is pretty disappointing given the price VW are asking.

[ferrariF50lover]

I'm probably a bit late to the party here, but in terms of the original choice (haven't read the thread, guess by now we're tossing up between an MX-5 and a 330d), it depends whether you want auto or manual. The auto box in any of the lower powered diesel A-Classes is absolutely horrendous and will, without doubt, drive you mental inside the first 24 hours. T'would be my primary consideration.

[Axionknight]

ZX10R NIN said:

Brand New Unregistered GTD & ST3 nigh on the same spec but there's a bit of a price difference.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

Lol messed that up

Edited by ZX10R NIN on Friday 5th June 18:32

That Focus looks ace in the first photo IMO.

[sanf]

Every time I spoke to friends about this I realised I was always favoring the Ford. So I've ordered the Focus in Tangerine Scream. Really looking forward to getting it now - having grown-up with many family fast Fords (Cortina 1600E, Capri 3.0s, Capri 2.8i, Escort 1600i, Sierra Cosworth)I've never owned a Ford, and while this may not quite be in the same league as the traditional ones, hopefully it will be good.

I can order the Merc in 3 years if I really want

[ian328]

I think you chose well, I'd really like an St diesel, would save on my bik payments. I currently have c220 cdi which is a great car, but very bland. Very good on fuel. I do 35k a year in mine. Will have to wait and see what work will allow us in 18 months we didn't get any choice with these cars. They just said what colour Mercedes do you want.
Personally I could really have done with an estate or hatch!

[All that jazz]

ian328 said:

I think you chose well, I'd really like an St diesel, would save on my bik payments. I currently have c220 cdi which is a great car, but very bland. Very good on fuel. I do 35k a year in mine. Will have to wait and see what work will allow us in 18 months we didn't get any choice with these cars. They just said what colour Mercedes do you want.
Personally I could really have done with an estate or hatch!

I drove a new STD yesterday as my mate at the MOT place I go to has recently bought himself one. Now I do have a petrol ST myself so there's a considerable difference in power - 250 vs 183, but the STD felt REALLLLLLLLLY really slow. It actually felt embarrassing to drive it with such pathetic power.

[lostkiwi]

Personally I'd never take a Ford over a Merc but then It would have to be a pretty dire choice for the Ford to win over anything!

[Court_S]

I've just had to make a similar choice for my company car.

Originally I had hoped for an A3 or Golf with the 1.4 TSI engine but they were costly on the lease so that meant naff trim and no options so I was forced to look at a diesel.

My list was A Class, 1 Series, Golf R Line, ST Diesel and Octavia vRS.

I didn't like the interior of the A Class. It looked lovely but felt nasty and cheap as well as this it was dinky inside. The engine choice was limited to teh 180 too - all I could have was the A180 AMG Line Night Edition. Not sure why a 200 or 220 in a lesser trim wasn't available.

The 1 series I did like but the M Sport is badly spec'd (no cruise etc) and by budget would only allow me a 118d sport with a few options or an M Sport with nothing on it. I think it needs the M Sport kit to look half decent.

I liked the Golf. It was very dull but I figured that as a car to live with for 25k per year it wouldn't annoy me but the leave prices weren't competitive. The only free colour is flat grey which is horrid.

This left the ST and the vRS.

Part of me quite likes the ST but I can't decide if it looks a bit chavvy or not...some days I say yes, other days no. The big thing for me was my local dealer who are pretty poor and the one near work is even worse and as Ford have short service intervals I have to visit them twice every year.

I've ended up ordering the vRS whish is pretty dull but having had a good test drive in it I thought it was a pretty good car. Certainly better than the Fiesta I've had for the last four years which was all I was entitied to as a graduate.

With regards to the whole petrol verus diesel debate, I've always preferred petrol but a week in a 330d X Drive has made me reconsider (our 330 was in for repair and the 330d was the only courtesy car available). It felt pretty damn quick, had an OK rev range and didn't sound too bad when worked hard....just a deep growl. It didn't sound great when started up. As a quick every day car I think it'd be hard to beat (although the noise our 330 made on the way home was lovely).

[em177]

Go and have a look at an A3 Saloon, I've got a hatch as a cc and love it.

[sanf]

Ok, the 3 month wait for the Focus came to an end last Monday, when it arrived - below is what I've posted in the Ford section. It really is a great car and the Merc would have to have really been special to beat it!!

Got my ST2 Nav on Monday - as a company car. Having done 700 miles this week, it really is a fantastic car. I think it looks great, is very comfy (and the seats are, it's fair to say snug!!), the dash looks great and voice recognition is very, very good.

As for driving it, while the diesel is not full balls out bonkers like the petrol, mid-range it pulls so well and is quick. When I had my Merc C320cdi, it was just outright fast - exceptionally so, and while it was fun being rear wheel drive, it always felt heavy and not so planted on the road. The Focus feels aggressive, very squat and planted to the road. The speed of direction change is awesome and it really feels well stuck to the road and torque steer isn't too bad either. On top of that I can easily fit the family in it (my eldest is now 15) and the dog in the boot, so it's a good size interior.

After the 1st week of ownership it's rapidly becoming my favourite car, well worth the wait, and very very happy with it .

[Jonny_]

That looks ace! Love the colour.