RE: Lotus Evora 400 spec announced
Discussion
Jellinek said:
unpc said:
Jellinek said:
Interestingly the Evora 400 US price has been announced at the same time. It's $89,900. That equates a fraction over 58k GBP today.
At 72k (GBP), the US RRP would be a whopping $111,553, but given the ZO6 Stingray has a $79k base price, 650bhp and does 29mpg, I guess Lotus is being realistic and has opted for very slim margins on US sales.
So it's the same price there. US price does not include sales tax and ours includes 20% VAT. At 72k (GBP), the US RRP would be a whopping $111,553, but given the ZO6 Stingray has a $79k base price, 650bhp and does 29mpg, I guess Lotus is being realistic and has opted for very slim margins on US sales.
DonkeyApple said:
And that's another failing of Lotus for years. Until recently they have always focusses on 'cheap'. It's cheaper than this other car. It's cheap because as a track car you can also use it on the road. It's cheap to run.
It's been a big mistake. A specialist, niche, bespoke builder of performance road cars cannot survive by promoting their brand as a cheap product.
The net result of all of this is that while the whole world has gone purely aspirational brand focussed to enable the selling of their product with huge profit margins, Lotus have gone in completely the wrong direction. It's the one thing that Bahar saw was wrong and got 100% right in diagnosing and it looks like post Bahar a positive of his reign is that others within Lotus have realised this and are turning things around.
The very simple reality is that once you step away from the core enthusiasts for a brand all your sales are comprised of people who wish to be associated with your brand for social reasons. Lotus has the enthusiast side in the bag but none of the other and the other is what makes up over 90% of most manufacturers sales. Most people buy a Porsche because they wish to be seen to be associated with a display of wealth and success. It is why you see vast numbers of 911s in London and the majority are base models. And there is nothing wrong with this human frailty. Despite what anyone says we are all guilty of it unless we are genetically or mentally flawed. The difference is that Lotus has stood alone in trying to shun basic human desires when everyone around them has embraced them.
I completely agree with this. It will take time for Lotus to be seen as a premium product, though.It's been a big mistake. A specialist, niche, bespoke builder of performance road cars cannot survive by promoting their brand as a cheap product.
The net result of all of this is that while the whole world has gone purely aspirational brand focussed to enable the selling of their product with huge profit margins, Lotus have gone in completely the wrong direction. It's the one thing that Bahar saw was wrong and got 100% right in diagnosing and it looks like post Bahar a positive of his reign is that others within Lotus have realised this and are turning things around.
The very simple reality is that once you step away from the core enthusiasts for a brand all your sales are comprised of people who wish to be associated with your brand for social reasons. Lotus has the enthusiast side in the bag but none of the other and the other is what makes up over 90% of most manufacturers sales. Most people buy a Porsche because they wish to be seen to be associated with a display of wealth and success. It is why you see vast numbers of 911s in London and the majority are base models. And there is nothing wrong with this human frailty. Despite what anyone says we are all guilty of it unless we are genetically or mentally flawed. The difference is that Lotus has stood alone in trying to shun basic human desires when everyone around them has embraced them.
On another note, it is good to see a car being launched with buttons and switches instead of a dash-mounted iPad screen to control everything.
I'm looking forward to reading road tests of the new Evora.
Throttle Body said:
I completely agree with this. It will take time for Lotus to be seen as a premium product, though.
On another note, it is good to see a car being launched with buttons and switches instead of a dash-mounted iPad screen to control everything.
I'm looking forward to reading road tests of the new Evora.
When the new Tesla was shown a few years back I was taken aback that all controls were in a huge touchscreen. In my eyes this move by other manufacturers is silly for two reasons. On another note, it is good to see a car being launched with buttons and switches instead of a dash-mounted iPad screen to control everything.
I'm looking forward to reading road tests of the new Evora.
Firstly, at night just who the hell wants a massive torch two feet away and shining in their face?!!! And considering that most premium cars are bought by over 55s whose eyes will not be able to adjust as easily or quickly as when they were younger then these large electronic displays strike me as bloody stupid.
Secondly, unless you are in a traffic jam just how are you expected to operate all these controls without taking your eyes off the road to see where the section of the screen is that you need to touch and on a bumpy road when is it appropriate to use your other hand to steady the one trying to get near the right button.
There is an extremely good reason why car builders of old placed lovely large, tactile buttons, knobs and switches on their dashes and it's the same reason that those building normal racing cars still do.
Frankly, in my eyes, when a manufacturer does away with a dash controls and switches to smart screen they are openly admitting that no one is buying their product for any actual driving purpose but rather to sit in traffic on a commute and to be seen by others.
There are clear upsides to having an iPad dash, far more functions, no redundancy on the tech as it can keep being upgraded, cheaper than quality switchgear, easy to junk and replace etc etc. But from an actual driving perspective, well they have nothing at all to do with driving and inhibit the driving experience. Assuming the driving experience is moving forward in a road which has some vegetation nearby.
Can't help but think any touchscreen is a step back and I agree with DonkeyApple, nothing nicer than flicking switches and turning knobs to get what you want. You can do it without taking your eyes off the road too.
I have a guarded toggle switch in my car now, very 'jetfighter' and reassuring.
I think the modern Mini and Morgan got it right with the three wheeler, they put a really nice ones in.
Check out the start switch in the 3 Wheeler: (scroll down)
http://www.morgan3wheeler.co.uk/desktopindex.html#...
I have a guarded toggle switch in my car now, very 'jetfighter' and reassuring.
I think the modern Mini and Morgan got it right with the three wheeler, they put a really nice ones in.
Check out the start switch in the 3 Wheeler: (scroll down)
http://www.morgan3wheeler.co.uk/desktopindex.html#...
It's funny how things come full circle 
First we get electronic controls, then ones you can touch on a screen and finally Haptic ones where you get feedback that you've touched something, whereas a plain old switch just did all of those things along. The thing is, if I can generalise here, technology rarely replicates what you want perfectly due to lag, linearity, magnitude of forces etc. Look at power steering for example, servo brakes or drive by wire throttles: all with decades of development behind them but they still aren't able to match how good and instinctive it feels to use the traditional and manual versions of those controls. Now, obviously technology is necessary in some places; nobody's going to develop unassisted steering for a 1700kg 5 series, and a cable throttle isn't really practical in a hybrid. Equally, if you took the BMW iDrive system and replicated it in switches, the cabin of your car would look like a space shuttle cockpit. The trick is to use the technology where it is needed, but to leave well along when it isn't. I work in IT and am a geek about tech, but I firmly believe in using tech only where it's needed and also only when it's up to the job.
First we get electronic controls, then ones you can touch on a screen and finally Haptic ones where you get feedback that you've touched something, whereas a plain old switch just did all of those things along. The thing is, if I can generalise here, technology rarely replicates what you want perfectly due to lag, linearity, magnitude of forces etc. Look at power steering for example, servo brakes or drive by wire throttles: all with decades of development behind them but they still aren't able to match how good and instinctive it feels to use the traditional and manual versions of those controls. Now, obviously technology is necessary in some places; nobody's going to develop unassisted steering for a 1700kg 5 series, and a cable throttle isn't really practical in a hybrid. Equally, if you took the BMW iDrive system and replicated it in switches, the cabin of your car would look like a space shuttle cockpit. The trick is to use the technology where it is needed, but to leave well along when it isn't. I work in IT and am a geek about tech, but I firmly believe in using tech only where it's needed and also only when it's up to the job.DonkeyApple said:
When the new Tesla was shown a few years back I was taken aback that all controls were in a huge touchscreen. In my eyes this move by other manufacturers is silly for two reasons.
...
Decades ago I was shown a radio head unit that Jaguar had built as a prototype for one of their cars - long before ipods and touch screens. The guy claimed it had cost them three quarters of a million pounds to get to this prototype. It never saw the light of day though, because they discovered when they tested it that people work best with big chunky dials and buttons - that you reach for the radio without looking and don't want to have to change your focus to figure out what you're asking it to do....
As an existing Evora owner, I must admit I'm not bowled over by the new design. It looks slightly too busy to me. The existing design is more... timeless.
Of course all IMO. I hope it does well, but I think it still suffers from the same perception issue that the current Evora does.
Why buy it at that price when I could get a XXX...
Of course all IMO. I hope it does well, but I think it still suffers from the same perception issue that the current Evora does.
Why buy it at that price when I could get a XXX...
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