RE: Lotus Evora 400 spec announced
Discussion
I reckon it'll be an awesome car and if I were on the market for a sporty number in that price range I would probably get one. Don't know if I'd spec the cruise ctrl though.
I wouldn't, however, consider anything from Porsche as they bore the s
t out of me.
I wouldn't, however, consider anything from Porsche as they bore the s
t out of me.- Actually, I lie. I have been known to peruse the classifieds for used 968/928s
julian64 said:
Why would you ever want cruise control on a sports car. In fact I'll go further and say why would you ever want cruise control in this country.
Its almost impossible to use cruise control on any road in the british isle without constantly have to play about with it to adjust the speed.
Unless its one of those clever BMW/MERC adaptive cruise conrol that locks onto the car in front I really can't see its any use.
A lot of manufacturers offer Active Cruise Control now, not just the premium ones...Its almost impossible to use cruise control on any road in the british isle without constantly have to play about with it to adjust the speed.
Unless its one of those clever BMW/MERC adaptive cruise conrol that locks onto the car in front I really can't see its any use.
GroundEffect said:
julian64 said:
Why would you ever want cruise control on a sports car. In fact I'll go further and say why would you ever want cruise control in this country.
Its almost impossible to use cruise control on any road in the british isle without constantly have to play about with it to adjust the speed.
Unless its one of those clever BMW/MERC adaptive cruise conrol that locks onto the car in front I really can't see its any use.
A lot of manufacturers offer Active Cruise Control now, not just the premium ones...Its almost impossible to use cruise control on any road in the british isle without constantly have to play about with it to adjust the speed.
Unless its one of those clever BMW/MERC adaptive cruise conrol that locks onto the car in front I really can't see its any use.
Plus, I wouldn't classify the Evora as a sports car anyway, in my mind it's a GT and the Elise is a sports car.
The thing to understand with the Evora is that, like other cars, it's got competition in the market. The hard bits to compete on are ride, handling, looks, desirability etc, but a car company would be shooting themselves in the foot if they didn't tick the easy boxes in the comparison game like cruise control, leather, nav etc. When choosing things, most people have an inkling one way or the other and then it snowballs as they read and discover little things; not having a bunch of small options, no matter how inconsequential, can tip the balance.
RobM77 said:
Besides, as I pointed out earlier, Julian is wrong, it's perfectly possible to use cruise control in the UK for extended periods - I've just had mine switched on for most of the way into work.
Plus, I wouldn't classify the Evora as a sports car anyway, in my mind it's a GT and the Elise is a sports car.
The thing to understand with the Evora is that, like other cars, it's got competition in the market. The hard bits to compete on are ride, handling, looks, desirability etc, but a car company would be shooting themselves in the foot if they didn't tick the easy boxes in the comparison game like cruise control, leather, nav etc. When choosing things, most people have an inkling one way or the other and then it snowballs as they read and discover little things; not having a bunch of small options, no matter how inconsequential, can tip the balance.
What's really important at Lotus right now is that they suddenly seem to have taken onboard that to sell more cars they can't just appeal to the 'second car' segment or the 'extreme daily car' segment. If they want to sell the Evora they have to add items which are no longer considered luxuries as they were back in the 80s but standard kit for a car that is meant to be used not just for extreme driving. Plus, I wouldn't classify the Evora as a sports car anyway, in my mind it's a GT and the Elise is a sports car.
The thing to understand with the Evora is that, like other cars, it's got competition in the market. The hard bits to compete on are ride, handling, looks, desirability etc, but a car company would be shooting themselves in the foot if they didn't tick the easy boxes in the comparison game like cruise control, leather, nav etc. When choosing things, most people have an inkling one way or the other and then it snowballs as they read and discover little things; not having a bunch of small options, no matter how inconsequential, can tip the balance.
Lowering the sills, adding an auto, more leather etc in the cabin and obviously cruise control. And I'm sure they will look at other obvious editions and fit them in due course.
I'm quite convinced that everything they have done recently is sensible and will help deliver increases in sales.
It's interesting that you think of the Evora as a GT. For me when you look at the two words Grand and Tourer they aren't words I could ever apply to a Lotus car in real terms.
DonkeyApple said:
What's really important at Lotus right now is that they suddenly seem to have taken onboard that to sell more cars they can't just appeal to the 'second car' segment or the 'extreme daily car' segment. If they want to sell the Evora they have to add items which are no longer considered luxuries as they were back in the 80s but standard kit for a car that is meant to be used not just for extreme driving.
Lowering the sills, adding an auto, more leather etc in the cabin and obviously cruise control. And I'm sure they will look at other obvious editions and fit them in due course.
I'm quite convinced that everything they have done recently is sensible and will help deliver increases in sales.
It's interesting that you think of the Evora as a GT. For me when you look at the two words Grand and Tourer they aren't words I could ever apply to a Lotus car in real terms.
This, broadening appeal without alienating your core buyers drives more sales (could a political party learn from this..). I look forward to the reviews and in particular a comparison with a Cayman GT4- imagine if it is considered a better steer and worth the extra cash...Lowering the sills, adding an auto, more leather etc in the cabin and obviously cruise control. And I'm sure they will look at other obvious editions and fit them in due course.
I'm quite convinced that everything they have done recently is sensible and will help deliver increases in sales.
It's interesting that you think of the Evora as a GT. For me when you look at the two words Grand and Tourer they aren't words I could ever apply to a Lotus car in real terms.
DonkeyApple said:
RobM77 said:
Besides, as I pointed out earlier, Julian is wrong, it's perfectly possible to use cruise control in the UK for extended periods - I've just had mine switched on for most of the way into work.
Plus, I wouldn't classify the Evora as a sports car anyway, in my mind it's a GT and the Elise is a sports car.
The thing to understand with the Evora is that, like other cars, it's got competition in the market. The hard bits to compete on are ride, handling, looks, desirability etc, but a car company would be shooting themselves in the foot if they didn't tick the easy boxes in the comparison game like cruise control, leather, nav etc. When choosing things, most people have an inkling one way or the other and then it snowballs as they read and discover little things; not having a bunch of small options, no matter how inconsequential, can tip the balance.
What's really important at Lotus right now is that they suddenly seem to have taken onboard that to sell more cars they can't just appeal to the 'second car' segment or the 'extreme daily car' segment. If they want to sell the Evora they have to add items which are no longer considered luxuries as they were back in the 80s but standard kit for a car that is meant to be used not just for extreme driving. Plus, I wouldn't classify the Evora as a sports car anyway, in my mind it's a GT and the Elise is a sports car.
The thing to understand with the Evora is that, like other cars, it's got competition in the market. The hard bits to compete on are ride, handling, looks, desirability etc, but a car company would be shooting themselves in the foot if they didn't tick the easy boxes in the comparison game like cruise control, leather, nav etc. When choosing things, most people have an inkling one way or the other and then it snowballs as they read and discover little things; not having a bunch of small options, no matter how inconsequential, can tip the balance.
Lowering the sills, adding an auto, more leather etc in the cabin and obviously cruise control. And I'm sure they will look at other obvious editions and fit them in due course.
I'm quite convinced that everything they have done recently is sensible and will help deliver increases in sales.
It's interesting that you think of the Evora as a GT. For me when you look at the two words Grand and Tourer they aren't words I could ever apply to a Lotus car in real terms.
I must confess that I'm rather sad that they're lowering the sills. To most normal sized people the sills make no difference to getting in and out and they add a huge amount of side impact protection. I've heard stories of huge accidents in Elises and Evoras etc where the Lotus driver has walked away unscathed when he shouldn't have done, just because of that strong tub.
truck71 said:
This, broadening appeal without alienating your core buyers drives more sales (could a political party learn from this..). I look forward to the reviews and in particular a comparison with a Cayman GT4- imagine if it is considered a better steer and worth the extra cash...
If hazard that our main political parties highlight what happens if you broaden your appeal too far but I never understood Lotus' extremist stance that they were special track focusses cars when they had tooled a factory up to sell numbers that no such mantra could ever hope to come close to. The Exige is an unbelievable car and perfect for the extremist minority but the Evora is the product that has to have mass appeal. And everything they seem to be doing the last 18 months seems to be low cost, prudent moves towards that.
It was always sadden me to see the media compare a Lotus product to Porsche. I just don't see any brand comparisons at all until you get to Porsche's ultra low volume, unprofitable extremities and even then you have a product from one of the largest multinationals on the planet building a product, by robots, at a loss (as a standalone centre) being compared to a niche manufacturer, building almost by hand, needing every unit to carry a profit. The fact that a Lotus could even come close makes it an enormous winner.
And then you have the core historic ethos of the companies. Porsche is a car company that went racing to help sell cars. Lotus, like Ferrari were a racing company that sold road cars to help fund their racing. To me this makes the two companies incompatible in the first instance. Lotus should be being contrasted to more exciting products such as those from the Italian stables not really the German ones. And when you do do that you can suddenly see just how rediculoisly cheap an Evora is. It is pocket money for a car that comes from where it does.
Itsallicanafford said:
As i see it, the problem with this car is that even if it is the best car in the world, the majority of the car buying public, of which genuine car enthusiasts are a small minority, will not spend £70K+ on a Lotus. And Lotus should know this by now.
Lotus need to change that perception, they need the margin on the more expensive cars. And the only way they will change that is by making and selling cars at that price level. You also need to keep in mind that Lotus's worldwide sales ambitions for this car are fairly modest. They are currently hiring staff and splitting the production lines to increase production to 3500 cars a year across Elise, Exige and Evora. Porsche flogs 30,000 911s a year alone.
Itsallicanafford said:
As i see it, the problem with this car is that even if it is the best car in the world, the majority of the car buying public, of which genuine car enthusiasts are a small minority, will not spend £70K+ on a Lotus. And Lotus should know this by now.
And that's another failing of Lotus for years. Until recently they have always focusses on 'cheap'. It's cheaper than this other car. It's cheap because as a track car you can also use it on the road. It's cheap to run. It's been a big mistake. A specialist, niche, bespoke builder of performance road cars cannot survive by promoting their brand as a cheap product.
The net result of all of this is that while the whole world has gone purely aspirational brand focussed to enable the selling of their product with huge profit margins, Lotus have gone in completely the wrong direction. It's the one thing that Bahar saw was wrong and got 100% right in diagnosing and it looks like post Bahar a positive of his reign is that others within Lotus have realised this and are turning things around.
The very simple reality is that once you step away from the core enthusiasts for a brand all your sales are comprised of people who wish to be associated with your brand for social reasons. Lotus has the enthusiast side in the bag but none of the other and the other is what makes up over 90% of most manufacturers sales. Most people buy a Porsche because they wish to be seen to be associated with a display of wealth and success. It is why you see vast numbers of 911s in London and the majority are base models. And there is nothing wrong with this human frailty. Despite what anyone says we are all guilty of it unless we are genetically or mentally flawed. The difference is that Lotus has stood alone in trying to shun basic human desires when everyone around them has embraced them.
I personally think, as I've mentioned in other Lotus threads, that Lotus should be ensuring that their Evora is seen every weekend in the key social venues of London and other major UK cities. The fact is that once the masses who are queing outside Mahiki etc see an Evora regularly outside or moving about then others will start to buy them for the same reason they buy any premium product. Because the hoi poloi associate that product with 'winning'. Sad but true. Every fashion designer knows this is what you must do and 50 years ago even Jaguar knew to do this. Every premium car vendor knows they must get their car parked up at key locations and be seen. Everyone except Lotus.
DonkeyApple said:
And that's another failing of Lotus for years. Until recently they have always focusses on 'cheap'. It's cheaper than this other car. It's cheap because as a track car you can also use it on the road. It's cheap to run.
It's been a big mistake. A specialist, niche, bespoke builder of performance road cars cannot survive by promoting their brand as a cheap product.
The net result of all of this is that while the whole world has gone purely aspirational brand focussed to enable the selling of their product with huge profit margins, Lotus have gone in completely the wrong direction. It's the one thing that Bahar saw was wrong and got 100% right in diagnosing and it looks like post Bahar a positive of his reign is that others within Lotus have realised this and are turning things around.
The very simple reality is that once you step away from the core enthusiasts for a brand all your sales are comprised of people who wish to be associated with your brand for social reasons. Lotus has the enthusiast side in the bag but none of the other and the other is what makes up over 90% of most manufacturers sales. Most people buy a Porsche because they wish to be seen to be associated with a display of wealth and success. It is why you see vast numbers of 911s in London and the majority are base models. And there is nothing wrong with this human frailty. Despite what anyone says we are all guilty of it unless we are genetically or mentally flawed. The difference is that Lotus has stood alone in trying to shun basic human desires when everyone around them has embraced them.
I personally think, as I've mentioned in other Lotus threads, that Lotus should be ensuring that their Evora is seen every weekend in the key social venues of London and other major UK cities. The fact is that once the masses who are queing outside Mahiki etc see an Evora regularly outside or moving about then others will start to buy them for the same reason they buy any premium product. Because the hoi poloi associate that product with 'winning'. Sad but true. Every fashion designer knows this is what you must do and 50 years ago even Jaguar knew to do this. Every premium car vendor knows they must get their car parked up at key locations and be seen. Everyone except Lotus.
Spot on.It's been a big mistake. A specialist, niche, bespoke builder of performance road cars cannot survive by promoting their brand as a cheap product.
The net result of all of this is that while the whole world has gone purely aspirational brand focussed to enable the selling of their product with huge profit margins, Lotus have gone in completely the wrong direction. It's the one thing that Bahar saw was wrong and got 100% right in diagnosing and it looks like post Bahar a positive of his reign is that others within Lotus have realised this and are turning things around.
The very simple reality is that once you step away from the core enthusiasts for a brand all your sales are comprised of people who wish to be associated with your brand for social reasons. Lotus has the enthusiast side in the bag but none of the other and the other is what makes up over 90% of most manufacturers sales. Most people buy a Porsche because they wish to be seen to be associated with a display of wealth and success. It is why you see vast numbers of 911s in London and the majority are base models. And there is nothing wrong with this human frailty. Despite what anyone says we are all guilty of it unless we are genetically or mentally flawed. The difference is that Lotus has stood alone in trying to shun basic human desires when everyone around them has embraced them.
I personally think, as I've mentioned in other Lotus threads, that Lotus should be ensuring that their Evora is seen every weekend in the key social venues of London and other major UK cities. The fact is that once the masses who are queing outside Mahiki etc see an Evora regularly outside or moving about then others will start to buy them for the same reason they buy any premium product. Because the hoi poloi associate that product with 'winning'. Sad but true. Every fashion designer knows this is what you must do and 50 years ago even Jaguar knew to do this. Every premium car vendor knows they must get their car parked up at key locations and be seen. Everyone except Lotus.
Although I disagree with an earlier point you made - I think the Evora is a perfect example of a GT car. Comfortable enough to do 6 hour + jaunts, almost a lazy torquey engine (certainly against anything else Lotus produce), decent luggage space when the rear is taken into account, wide comfy seats and enough toys (including cruise
) that are there for comfort and assistance at the expense of light weight.DonkeyApple said:
Every premium car vendor knows they must get their car parked up at key locations and be seen. Everyone except Lotus.
This is exactly how the Esprit was chosen for a starring role in the Bond films back in the mid-1970s. They do know this stuff, they've just forgotten to implement it. Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff