Engines - the legendary one of each type?
Discussion
loose cannon said:
Nobody mentioned the C20XE ? How many touring cars alone have had that engine fitted.......
For me, four pot honours would be split between this and the Ford Cosworth YB. Both easy going, reliable, tractable road engines in standard tune, but real weapons when tuned, and with impressive motorsport pedigree. Both have won touring car championships, and the Ford engine was successful in rallying too. People have also coaxed four figure horsepower outputs from a 2.0 YB, admittedly by spending the GDP of a small country, but the fact it's even possible is staggering.Edited by Limpet on Thursday 21st May 17:04
Single: BSA DBD34
Parallel Twin: Triumph T120R
V-Twin : Vincent 1000
L-Twin: Ducati Testastretta
Triple: MV 500/3
I4: Ford-Cosworth BDA
V4: Lancia 1.3 DOHC
Flat 4: Alfa 1500
I5: Audi DOHC 20v (Sport Quattro version)
I6: BMW S54 from the E46 CSL
Flat 6: Porsche air-cooled
I8: Mercedes-Benz W196
V6: Ferrari Dino
V8: Chrysler Hemi 426
V10: Lexus LFA
V12: RR Merlin
Flat 12: Posrche Flat 12 from a 917
V16: Auto-Union
Parallel Twin: Triumph T120R
V-Twin : Vincent 1000
L-Twin: Ducati Testastretta
Triple: MV 500/3
I4: Ford-Cosworth BDA
V4: Lancia 1.3 DOHC
Flat 4: Alfa 1500
I5: Audi DOHC 20v (Sport Quattro version)
I6: BMW S54 from the E46 CSL
Flat 6: Porsche air-cooled
I8: Mercedes-Benz W196
V6: Ferrari Dino
V8: Chrysler Hemi 426
V10: Lexus LFA
V12: RR Merlin
Flat 12: Posrche Flat 12 from a 917
V16: Auto-Union
daytona365 said:
There's hundreds of really excellent engines that have been made, but what about the absolute crappiest list ? I'd like to nominate the Stag V8 to start this ball rolling.
I have no idea how crap one of those is, but it would be going some to be crapper than the International V800, 13 litres of revvy gutlessness. Deeres 15.7 V8 was a total dog too. V-Twin : Suzuki TL1000
L-Twin: Ducati Testastretta
Triple: Kawasaki H2 Mach IV 750
I4: Ford-Cosworth YB
V4: Honda VFR750
Flat 4: Subaru EJ207
I5: Volvo B5234T (T5)
I6: Nissan RB26
Flat 6: Porsche air-cooled
V6: Alfa Busso
V8: Rover/Buick V8
V10: Porsche Carrera GT
V12: RR Merlin
Flat 12: Ferrari 512M
L-Twin: Ducati Testastretta
Triple: Kawasaki H2 Mach IV 750
I4: Ford-Cosworth YB
V4: Honda VFR750
Flat 4: Subaru EJ207
I5: Volvo B5234T (T5)
I6: Nissan RB26
Flat 6: Porsche air-cooled
V6: Alfa Busso
V8: Rover/Buick V8
V10: Porsche Carrera GT
V12: RR Merlin
Flat 12: Ferrari 512M
DanielSan said:
cocopop said:
Also, I think Toyota's 2JZ could give the RB26 a run for it's money, as could BMW's S54.
Likewise Nissan SR20 against Honda's F20C.
There's sod all legendary about the SR20. It's an average engine that makes average power with a snail strapped to it. The F20C is a piece of genuine engineering brilliance.Likewise Nissan SR20 against Honda's F20C.
cobra kid said:
daytona365 said:
..They did, but it was more of a wonky straight five than a true Vee.
In which case, can I nominate the VW V5 for the best wonky straight 5 please?Also the Honda MotoGP V5s are the best V5s.
V-Twin: The Ducati motor or the Harley motor.
I4: The Lotus Twincam, the Alfa Nord twincam (introduced in the '50s and still up-to-date in 1990) or maybe Vauxhall's red top.
Flat 4: The scooby-doo.
V6: The Busso.
I6: XK or BMW's turbine smooth 2.5. I never personally liked the BMW motor but it is certainly a legendary lump.
V8: The Chevy small-block. Perhaps also the Ford flathead. The Cosworth DFV too.
V12: The Merlin is the legend, not the Griffon.
Flat-12: There's only really the Colombo engine. Porsche's flat - 12 was awesome but the Ferrari engine has the fame.
V16: BRM for the noise but again hardly any competition. It's that or the Caddie or the Cizeta and that's it I think. But the BRM was a legendary sound and a legendary failure.
I4: The Lotus Twincam, the Alfa Nord twincam (introduced in the '50s and still up-to-date in 1990) or maybe Vauxhall's red top.
Flat 4: The scooby-doo.
V6: The Busso.
I6: XK or BMW's turbine smooth 2.5. I never personally liked the BMW motor but it is certainly a legendary lump.
V8: The Chevy small-block. Perhaps also the Ford flathead. The Cosworth DFV too.
V12: The Merlin is the legend, not the Griffon.
Flat-12: There's only really the Colombo engine. Porsche's flat - 12 was awesome but the Ferrari engine has the fame.
V16: BRM for the noise but again hardly any competition. It's that or the Caddie or the Cizeta and that's it I think. But the BRM was a legendary sound and a legendary failure.
I've had a sudden realisation that I'm a engine designer who hasn't designed anything that's been on anyone's list so far.
Depressing.
I'm waiting for the "worse engine of each type" results before taking the cyanide. I know people who worked on the head-gaskety k-series. I don't want to end up like them, poor things.
K is for kettle, it boils the water.
Depressing.
I'm waiting for the "worse engine of each type" results before taking the cyanide. I know people who worked on the head-gaskety k-series. I don't want to end up like them, poor things.
K is for kettle, it boils the water.
This isn't necessarily the best engine - just what I regard as the most famous/definitive of the type, Engines that don't need to be Googled to find out what they are.
Single, twin and triple cylinder will be a motorbike, I imagine.
Straight 4 - Coventry Climax or Sierra Cosworth engine
Flat 4 – Subaru these days – once it would have been Alfa Romeo
V4 - Ford/SAAB
Inline five cylinder – Audi
Straight six – Jaguar XK
V6 Alfa Romeo ‘Busso’
Flat six – Porsche
Straight eight – Buick ‘Fireball’
V8 – Chevy ‘Smallblock’
V10 – Dodge Viper
V12 – Jaguar - or less specifically from a car, Rolls-Royce Merlin
W12 - Some kind of Volkswagen
Flat 12 - Ferrari
V16 - BRM, or in a road car, Cadillac
W16 – no idea there was such a thing.
Various other types, used in ‘planes and trains - I don't know enough about them.
Single, twin and triple cylinder will be a motorbike, I imagine.
Straight 4 - Coventry Climax or Sierra Cosworth engine
Flat 4 – Subaru these days – once it would have been Alfa Romeo
V4 - Ford/SAAB
Inline five cylinder – Audi
Straight six – Jaguar XK
V6 Alfa Romeo ‘Busso’
Flat six – Porsche
Straight eight – Buick ‘Fireball’
V8 – Chevy ‘Smallblock’
V10 – Dodge Viper
V12 – Jaguar - or less specifically from a car, Rolls-Royce Merlin
W12 - Some kind of Volkswagen
Flat 12 - Ferrari
V16 - BRM, or in a road car, Cadillac
W16 – no idea there was such a thing.
Various other types, used in ‘planes and trains - I don't know enough about them.
Captain Muppet said:
I've had a sudden realisation that I'm a engine designer who hasn't designed anything that's been on anyone's list so far.
Depressing.
I'm waiting for the "worse engine of each type" results before taking the cyanide. I know people who worked on the head-gaskety k-series. I don't want to end up like them, poor things.
K is for kettle, it boils the water.
Depressing.
I'm waiting for the "worse engine of each type" results before taking the cyanide. I know people who worked on the head-gaskety k-series. I don't want to end up like them, poor things.
K is for kettle, it boils the water.
I'm stealing that one!
Just some of my favourites,
Small capacity for the win.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5v_jXD_tmE
2litre V8, 10000rpm, 10000 percent ear sex.
Maserati magic, making an inline 4 sound like a v12.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQSVdd1C71Y
Pretty sure its road legal, as it was in that brilliant area where the lines were pretty blurred.
I think the v12 from the Zonda 760R needs a mention as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beutB6R0Zqg
7.10 for ear melting.
Small capacity for the win.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5v_jXD_tmE
2litre V8, 10000rpm, 10000 percent ear sex.
Maserati magic, making an inline 4 sound like a v12.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQSVdd1C71Y
Pretty sure its road legal, as it was in that brilliant area where the lines were pretty blurred.
I think the v12 from the Zonda 760R needs a mention as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beutB6R0Zqg
7.10 for ear melting.
This thread is very interesting, I've been thinking about getting a second car and after thinking about what it is about a car that makes me tick, I've realised the engine is the most important part for me so it's nice to see a list of what people consider to be some of the best. With that in mind here is a sum up of the popular choices from this thread with a slight bias towards some of my favourites and a summary of cars which can be bought that feature them.
I have tried to keep the options to realistic cars that the majority of PH'ers might actually be able to afford rather than pie in the sky exotica.
I4 - Honda engines as found in the S2000 and various Type R's seems to be the favourite by far and I'd have to agree. If you can't appreciate a little screaming I4 that revs to over 8000rpm but still has an outstanding reliability record then I'm not sure you belong on PH. The S2000 especially is definitely a strong contender for a possible future car purchase
Flat 4 - looks like a Subaru is getting the most votes and again I'd have to agree although I've already had one of those so not sure I'd get another.
V5 - Honourable mentions to both Volvo and Ford but I think Audi have this sown up. If you like your cars of the classic persuasion then the Audi Quattro has to be the one, if you prefer newer then the 5pot unit found in the RS3 or TTRS is an absolute gem. It's a shame they haven't used it in much else.
V6 - Seems like the most popular answer is the Alfa busso which is one of my favourites too. Just a shame it can't be had in anything RWD. The 156, 147, GT and GTV are all nice cars but the engine is by far the best bit and the rest of the car doesn't really live up to it IMO (sorry Alfa fans)
Flat 6 - Porsche seem the favourite but their are two problems, older Porsches seem to have gone into the stratosphere price wise and anything affordable from the 996/997 era has the dreaded engine issues. A bad blemish on Porsche's usually impeccable engineering pedigree IMO.
I6 - RB26 in the Skyline, 2JZ in the Supra and the BMW straight sixes seem to be highly regarded. I've done the Skyline thing and can confirm the RB26 is absolutely awesome, still debating whether or not to go and revisit. The 2JZ is lovely and probably a bit more stronger\reliable but I just prefer the RB as it revs better\higher. I've also done the BMW straight six thing although an E46 M3 is still quite tempting to revisit too. I'll also mention the I6 in found in TVR's, a fantastic race engine unfortunately let down by questionable reliability. They just didn't have the budget to test and finish it properly but hats off to the boys from Blackpool for giving it a damn good go and producing on of the most charismatic 6 cylinder engines available in any sportscar.
V8 - Lots of contention here, some people prefer yank V8's (and why wouldn't you) and others prefer Europeans. My personal favourites have to be the S65 as found in the M3, lovely lovely engine in a nice car. The second is the 2UR as found on the Lexus RC. Some people prefer lazy V8's which certainly have their place but I prefer ones that sing and these two certainly do. Honourable mention must go to the 6.3 litre unit found in AMG Merc's of various description and I'm also very curious to see what the V8 in the new Mustang will be like.
V10 - Much as I love the V10's in the LFA and Carrera GT, in fact I'd rate both as two of the best engines ever made, realisticlly they aren't going to be sitting on my drive any time soon so for affordable V10's it's got to be the units in the BMW M5\M6. Again a cracking engine which was misunderstood by many, it was a race engine for the road but people complained it didn't have enough torque so has been replaced by an utterly soulless twin turbo unit, be careful what you wish for and all that
V12 - Again seeing as a Mclaren F1 or an Enzo is off a bit out of reach, it's gotta be the V12 in one of the "cheaper" Ferrari's, perhaps the 456. Unfortunately these also seem to be climbing their way into the stratosphere price-wise too. Alternative are a DB7 but not too sure on how cost effective running an old Aston would be. If your budget doesn't quite stretch to any of those then the cheapest way into V12 ownership seems to be of the Mercedes CL\SL600 or the BMW 750\850i route. These V12's are more wafters then screamers though which may suit some. I do sometimes have a hankering for an 850csi but rare and hen's teeth feature into the equation.
Rotary - Honourable mention must also go to crazy rotary wankle (great name) as found in various Mazda's. Lightweight, compact and loves to rev and in 13b guise attached to probably one of the best looking cars to come out of Japan in the form of the RX-7. HOWEVER it does love a drink of both fuel AND oil. Add in the somewhat questionable reliability and rebuild issues (a matter of when not if) and yet despite all this, I am still strangely drawn to this car\engine combo, am I nuts?
I have tried to keep the options to realistic cars that the majority of PH'ers might actually be able to afford rather than pie in the sky exotica.
I4 - Honda engines as found in the S2000 and various Type R's seems to be the favourite by far and I'd have to agree. If you can't appreciate a little screaming I4 that revs to over 8000rpm but still has an outstanding reliability record then I'm not sure you belong on PH. The S2000 especially is definitely a strong contender for a possible future car purchase
Flat 4 - looks like a Subaru is getting the most votes and again I'd have to agree although I've already had one of those so not sure I'd get another.
V5 - Honourable mentions to both Volvo and Ford but I think Audi have this sown up. If you like your cars of the classic persuasion then the Audi Quattro has to be the one, if you prefer newer then the 5pot unit found in the RS3 or TTRS is an absolute gem. It's a shame they haven't used it in much else.
V6 - Seems like the most popular answer is the Alfa busso which is one of my favourites too. Just a shame it can't be had in anything RWD. The 156, 147, GT and GTV are all nice cars but the engine is by far the best bit and the rest of the car doesn't really live up to it IMO (sorry Alfa fans)
Flat 6 - Porsche seem the favourite but their are two problems, older Porsches seem to have gone into the stratosphere price wise and anything affordable from the 996/997 era has the dreaded engine issues. A bad blemish on Porsche's usually impeccable engineering pedigree IMO.
I6 - RB26 in the Skyline, 2JZ in the Supra and the BMW straight sixes seem to be highly regarded. I've done the Skyline thing and can confirm the RB26 is absolutely awesome, still debating whether or not to go and revisit. The 2JZ is lovely and probably a bit more stronger\reliable but I just prefer the RB as it revs better\higher. I've also done the BMW straight six thing although an E46 M3 is still quite tempting to revisit too. I'll also mention the I6 in found in TVR's, a fantastic race engine unfortunately let down by questionable reliability. They just didn't have the budget to test and finish it properly but hats off to the boys from Blackpool for giving it a damn good go and producing on of the most charismatic 6 cylinder engines available in any sportscar.
V8 - Lots of contention here, some people prefer yank V8's (and why wouldn't you) and others prefer Europeans. My personal favourites have to be the S65 as found in the M3, lovely lovely engine in a nice car. The second is the 2UR as found on the Lexus RC. Some people prefer lazy V8's which certainly have their place but I prefer ones that sing and these two certainly do. Honourable mention must go to the 6.3 litre unit found in AMG Merc's of various description and I'm also very curious to see what the V8 in the new Mustang will be like.
V10 - Much as I love the V10's in the LFA and Carrera GT, in fact I'd rate both as two of the best engines ever made, realisticlly they aren't going to be sitting on my drive any time soon so for affordable V10's it's got to be the units in the BMW M5\M6. Again a cracking engine which was misunderstood by many, it was a race engine for the road but people complained it didn't have enough torque so has been replaced by an utterly soulless twin turbo unit, be careful what you wish for and all that
V12 - Again seeing as a Mclaren F1 or an Enzo is off a bit out of reach, it's gotta be the V12 in one of the "cheaper" Ferrari's, perhaps the 456. Unfortunately these also seem to be climbing their way into the stratosphere price-wise too. Alternative are a DB7 but not too sure on how cost effective running an old Aston would be. If your budget doesn't quite stretch to any of those then the cheapest way into V12 ownership seems to be of the Mercedes CL\SL600 or the BMW 750\850i route. These V12's are more wafters then screamers though which may suit some. I do sometimes have a hankering for an 850csi but rare and hen's teeth feature into the equation.
Rotary - Honourable mention must also go to crazy rotary wankle (great name) as found in various Mazda's. Lightweight, compact and loves to rev and in 13b guise attached to probably one of the best looking cars to come out of Japan in the form of the RX-7. HOWEVER it does love a drink of both fuel AND oil. Add in the somewhat questionable reliability and rebuild issues (a matter of when not if) and yet despite all this, I am still strangely drawn to this car\engine combo, am I nuts?
Guvernator said:
V5 - Honourable mentions to both Volvo and Ford but I think Audi have this sown up. If you like your cars of the classic persuasion then the Audi Quattro has to be the one, if you prefer newer then the 5pot unit found in the RS3 or TTRS is an absolute gem. It's a shame they haven't used it in much else.
Neither Volvo, Ford or Audi have ever used a V5.Guvernator said:
V6 - Seems like the most popular answer is the Alfa busso which is one of my favourites too. Just a shame it can't be had in anything RWD.
Err.....yes it can.Edited by aeropilot on Friday 22 May 15:04
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