Garages Ripping off the Mrs
Discussion
I've got a 10 year old S2000. It currently has a full Honda main dealer service history that I've felt is worth maintaining since prices are now rising. I've never felt ripped off by them until...
4 weeks ago it went in for a 90,000 mile service. Service done but they advised me on two items that need doing to pass the MOT 2 months later:
4 weeks ago it went in for a 90,000 mile service. Service done but they advised me on two items that need doing to pass the MOT 2 months later:
- Rear offside brake line corroded. Needs replacing at £330 and part has a 3 month lead time so car will have to be off the road for 1 month.
- Rear offside exhaust box has a broken bracket so entire new rear half of exhaust required at £650.
BMW dealer in North Hampshire said my car urgently needed new front discs and pads at 35k miles the CBS system says the front pads have 60k miles remaining and on checking the discs they're about 40% worn. They also suggested I needed 2 new tyres as a tyre had a 'bloody great nail' in it which turned out to be a 2mm pin not puncturing the tyre. Their quote for 2 tyres, a pair of wiper blades (which work fine) pads and discs....£7,900!!!!!!!
I don't think it's a massive surprise to anyone to hear that many (maybe even most) garages and dealers are rip-off merchants. I've finally found one that I trust not to make stuff up, possibly because I watch them do the MOT and take it away to do any repairs myself so they know there's no benefit to trying to rip me off.
Most people are utterly clueless about cars so when they are told their grub nut preload needs adjusting with a special 7 sided spanner and the rear phase combobulator is looking worn they just hand over the money. Women are worse than men for this so tend to get ripped off even worse.
Most people are utterly clueless about cars so when they are told their grub nut preload needs adjusting with a special 7 sided spanner and the rear phase combobulator is looking worn they just hand over the money. Women are worse than men for this so tend to get ripped off even worse.
The below part of an email I sent to a Ford main dealer who had tried ripping off my sister in law to the tune of £2000. Please excuse the length.
The mechanic identified that the oil leak was rear main oil seal and the sump and he quoted £547.67 to resolve, but didn’t include a cost for the sump.
However the most alarming was that he had identified a catastrophic brake failure and no brake fluid in the car. This, in his terms, made it unsafe to drive and he didn’t want the responsibility of her children on his conscience in case anything happened to them! So he wouldn't let her leave the garage in it. After examining the car thoroughly he also presented an estimate of £1,361.35 and pushed her to authorise the work immediately.
This obviously caused a huge amount of anguish thinking she had put her children in danger and the fact she would be without a car until it got repaired. Not having £2000 to spend on repairs at the moment she didn't agree to it but left the car with you.
The problem your mechanic had identified, though hadn’t explained, was
The O ring at the back of the master cylinder had failed and this had caused the servo to fill with brake fluid compromising the diaphragm. Both parts would need to be replaced as well as all the pipes!
This diagnosis was explained to me even though there had been no symptoms of brake pedal sponginess or the servo having failed and despite the fact it passed an MOT just 3 days earlier.
This didn’t seem to add up, so having a small amount of mechanical experience I wanted to see what had failed.
I visited your dealership on Saturday morning to be greeted by *****, I think, who was polite but very forceful in saying that was the problem and it needed fixing. She also didn’t believe that that the oil leak would be a warranty claim until I showed the previous invoice. Even then said it might not be that and that we would still need to pay the £500 + even if it was found to be something else like the sump as identified. I am a little sceptical at this point that it would cost £500+ to change a sump gasket.
I did get to see the problems with ********, who was very professional, polite and knowledgeable.
He explained to me what the previous mechanic had said but it was apparent that the brake fluid wasn’t empty, in fact it was above the minimum level.
After I asked for proof that the servo was full and the fluid was leaking out of the vacuum joint he first dipped a cloth, then a much longer piece of plastic into the servo to demonstrate fluid. Obviously both of these came up dry. The only sign of a leak was on one of the push-on pipes where it joins the master cylinder, the plastic had failed.
Upon looking at the oil leak it was obvious that the sump wasn’t leaking in fact it was the sump bung washer that was leaking. There was also a leak from the rear main oil seal which as mentioned earlier had been changed less than 10 months/7000 miles ago and would be covered by warranty.
I understand the importance of brakes and I’m sure you will say that the mechanic was being thorough but I am struggling to believe in this day and age that main dealerships, who you should be able to trust, are still trying to rip off female customers. The mechanic who assessed the job initially is either grossly incompetent or grossly dishonest.
It took less than 2 minutes of investigation to get an estimate, which he was trying to be forced to be paid, down from £2000 to less than £100.
The mechanic identified that the oil leak was rear main oil seal and the sump and he quoted £547.67 to resolve, but didn’t include a cost for the sump.
However the most alarming was that he had identified a catastrophic brake failure and no brake fluid in the car. This, in his terms, made it unsafe to drive and he didn’t want the responsibility of her children on his conscience in case anything happened to them! So he wouldn't let her leave the garage in it. After examining the car thoroughly he also presented an estimate of £1,361.35 and pushed her to authorise the work immediately.
This obviously caused a huge amount of anguish thinking she had put her children in danger and the fact she would be without a car until it got repaired. Not having £2000 to spend on repairs at the moment she didn't agree to it but left the car with you.
The problem your mechanic had identified, though hadn’t explained, was
The O ring at the back of the master cylinder had failed and this had caused the servo to fill with brake fluid compromising the diaphragm. Both parts would need to be replaced as well as all the pipes!
This diagnosis was explained to me even though there had been no symptoms of brake pedal sponginess or the servo having failed and despite the fact it passed an MOT just 3 days earlier.
This didn’t seem to add up, so having a small amount of mechanical experience I wanted to see what had failed.
I visited your dealership on Saturday morning to be greeted by *****, I think, who was polite but very forceful in saying that was the problem and it needed fixing. She also didn’t believe that that the oil leak would be a warranty claim until I showed the previous invoice. Even then said it might not be that and that we would still need to pay the £500 + even if it was found to be something else like the sump as identified. I am a little sceptical at this point that it would cost £500+ to change a sump gasket.
I did get to see the problems with ********, who was very professional, polite and knowledgeable.
He explained to me what the previous mechanic had said but it was apparent that the brake fluid wasn’t empty, in fact it was above the minimum level.
After I asked for proof that the servo was full and the fluid was leaking out of the vacuum joint he first dipped a cloth, then a much longer piece of plastic into the servo to demonstrate fluid. Obviously both of these came up dry. The only sign of a leak was on one of the push-on pipes where it joins the master cylinder, the plastic had failed.
Upon looking at the oil leak it was obvious that the sump wasn’t leaking in fact it was the sump bung washer that was leaking. There was also a leak from the rear main oil seal which as mentioned earlier had been changed less than 10 months/7000 miles ago and would be covered by warranty.
I understand the importance of brakes and I’m sure you will say that the mechanic was being thorough but I am struggling to believe in this day and age that main dealerships, who you should be able to trust, are still trying to rip off female customers. The mechanic who assessed the job initially is either grossly incompetent or grossly dishonest.
It took less than 2 minutes of investigation to get an estimate, which he was trying to be forced to be paid, down from £2000 to less than £100.
My car still went to the main dealer for servicing and MOT, even when it was approaching 10 years old.
I have never, ever, had a phone to call to say something, other than what i requested, needed replacing.
Oh, and they price matched the MOT and servicing at my local indy, just on my word.
But to keep up with the band wagon, yeah, they are all
s.
I have never, ever, had a phone to call to say something, other than what i requested, needed replacing.
Oh, and they price matched the MOT and servicing at my local indy, just on my word.
But to keep up with the band wagon, yeah, they are all
s.The last time my gf's car went to the dealer they told her both front wheels were buckled and needed replacing at over £500 each.... Turns out there were a couple of minor pot hole dents on the inner part of the wheel rim. They said if they put a new tyre on it won't hold any pressure (the tyre being replaced hadn't lost a single psi since the last time I checked them for her!) I explained to them that I'd knock the dents out myself and requested that they stopped making wheels out of cheese.
SteveS Cup said:
The last time my gf's car went to the dealer they told her both front wheels were buckled and needed replacing at over £500 each.... Turns out there were a couple of minor pot hole dents on the inner part of the wheel rim. They said if they put a new tyre on it won't hold any pressure (the tyre being replaced hadn't lost a single psi since the last time I checked them for her!) I explained to them that I'd knock the dents out myself and requested that they stopped making wheels out of cheese.
Must be a RenaultTook my old Civic for 2 new tyres when they had it on the ramps they pointed out that the CV joint boot were spli, which they were and pointed at a small patch of rust, good lads I thought. Then said it really needed the tracking doing 
and the front shocks were leaking. I pointed out that the oil was in fact grease from the split cv joint boot. So went to pay. Upon paying they tried to charge me for tracking which they hadn't done, because there was no point because my mechanic would have it in bit to do the CV joints. Tossers. That was at a major tyre retailer who's name is not unlike the pinnacle motorsport league.
The next set of tyres saw me at a "national" "tyre" retailer, they tried to sell me some new brake discs because because they ones on the car were rusty in the vents. No st, they're brake discs. The car went onto pass the next 2 MOT's with the same discs.
and the front shocks were leaking. I pointed out that the oil was in fact grease from the split cv joint boot. So went to pay. Upon paying they tried to charge me for tracking which they hadn't done, because there was no point because my mechanic would have it in bit to do the CV joints. Tossers. That was at a major tyre retailer who's name is not unlike the pinnacle motorsport league. The next set of tyres saw me at a "national" "tyre" retailer, they tried to sell me some new brake discs because because they ones on the car were rusty in the vents. No s
t, they're brake discs. The car went onto pass the next 2 MOT's with the same discs. speedyguy said:
750turbo said:
Please do not think that ALL dealers are rip off merchants though, despite what you see in here.
Could you post up some examples to counteract all these naughty garages mentioned 
Thanks
To be serious though, I have spent 99% of my (long
) working life involved in the Motor Trade, either at Dealer level, or involved in bloody IT (This is hands on, working with retailers)The honest ones, FAR outweigh any dodgy ones now, remember we only like to hear sob stories, no-one is interested in, "I had my car serviced/repaired and was very happy with it".
As for the dodgy ones, name & shame the b
ds!speedyguy said:
Could you post up some examples to counteract all these naughty garages mentioned Thanks
Of the 3 Lexus main dealers i have used, the service has been 1st class, they have never "found" something that needs urgent attention outside of the normal service items. ThanksBut yes the rip off merchants are still out there.
Edited by Harvey Mushman00 on Wednesday 20th May 17:59
speedyguy said:
750turbo said:
Please do not think that ALL dealers are rip off merchants though, despite what you see in here.
Could you post up some examples to counteract all these naughty garages mentioned ThanksThey called me to tell me that the knocking was bushes and would cost £50 rather than £150 that dtoplinks would cost and they told me the front fiscs had 2mm of wear whivh is about 10k miles so no need to change.
When I went to collect the car they had the worm bushes if I wanted to inspect them.
The previous time they replaced a boot gas strut free of charge.
750turbo said:
Do I really have too, it really would be boring.
To be serious though, I have spent 99% of my (long ) working life involved in the Motor Trade, either at Dealer level, or involved in bloody IT (This is hands on, working with retailers)
The honest ones, FAR outweigh any dodgy ones now, remember we only like to hear sob stories, no-one is interested in, "I had my car serviced/repaired and was very happy with it".
As for the dodgy ones, name & shame the bds!
Indeed. Once you have proven to be an honest garage you can trust, and built up a solid reputation, there is almost no need to advertise. Customers keep coming back and word of mouth spreads. However looking at the reviews online for our garage, we only have about 10 reviews all highly positive, but some places have pages of negative reviews.To be serious though, I have spent 99% of my (long
) working life involved in the Motor Trade, either at Dealer level, or involved in bloody IT (This is hands on, working with retailers)The honest ones, FAR outweigh any dodgy ones now, remember we only like to hear sob stories, no-one is interested in, "I had my car serviced/repaired and was very happy with it".
As for the dodgy ones, name & shame the b
ds!blueg33 said:
My Lotus was in for a service with a main dealer last week. I told them it had z knocking from the front that I thought may be drop links and that I was worried that the front fiscs were nearly worn
They called me to tell me that the knocking was bushes and would cost £50 rather than £150 that dtoplinks would cost and they told me the front fiscs had 2mm of wear whivh is about 10k miles so no need to change.
When I went to collect the car they had the worm bushes if I wanted to inspect them.
The previous time they replaced a boot gas strut free of charge.
I hate typing on my phone. They called me to tell me that the knocking was bushes and would cost £50 rather than £150 that dtoplinks would cost and they told me the front fiscs had 2mm of wear whivh is about 10k miles so no need to change.
When I went to collect the car they had the worm bushes if I wanted to inspect them.
The previous time they replaced a boot gas strut free of charge.
There are good and bad, but the Op reminds me of a time about 10'years ago when we booked my wife's car in to the local main dealer for an MOT and Service. the car at the time was 4 years old with about 18k on it from memory.
Phone call after phone call came, as the garage suggested the car would fail on, and this is just what I can remember, complete steering rack, exhaust back box, front brake disks, and one rear damper.
A little odd, I thought, so asked if It had actually failed the MOT test. "no, no, our man has picked up these items as part of the service, but he is sure it will fail on those items"
"Hmm, test it and we'll see" said I.
Low and behold, passed first time with no advisories. I wonder how many people fall for it.
Phone call after phone call came, as the garage suggested the car would fail on, and this is just what I can remember, complete steering rack, exhaust back box, front brake disks, and one rear damper.
A little odd, I thought, so asked if It had actually failed the MOT test. "no, no, our man has picked up these items as part of the service, but he is sure it will fail on those items"
"Hmm, test it and we'll see" said I.
Low and behold, passed first time with no advisories. I wonder how many people fall for it.
speedyguy said:
Could you post up some examples to counteract all these naughty garages mentioned Thanks
Ex-missus took her car for an MOT... pass and advise, £40.00 please. ThanksSister had a water hose blow on her car 500 miles from home.. "You buy it, we'll fit it free, full check over, lights, levels and tyres checked / you're good to drive home"
Old dear had a clunk on her 2 year old Mazda - in diagnosed, don't have parts, would you like a courtesy car, no I'll come back, two new shocks fitted, valeted and delivered back to her work.
Granny, 85... Volvo dealer in Cornwall somewhere, car gets collected, washed, serviced etc, yet to see what I call a rip off bill.
It does happen. Just, people prefer to be negative more than they like to be positive.
Shame really.
Having been involved in the motor trade myself for half my working life, I have to admit that I 'think' the bad buggers out way the good chaps by about 2-1!
I used to work for a Mazda main dealer in Paignton ( a few years ago so not the current or even the one that's just lost the franchise for anyone local!) and to say that the attitude of 'rip em off for everything you can' was started at the very top and as a policy, it was rigorously enforced! I HATED working there. They genuinely would park a car round the back for three days and then declare 'no fault found' even though the car had never been near the workshop - warranty work only of course! They always kept the spare keys on s/h sales cars and then charged the customers for replacements... Mats and flaps were routinely taken out and then sold back to the new owners...
We bought a new KIA a few years ago and the clutch started squeeking - either the pedal or the cable needed lubing or replacing. No, of course it needed a new clutch that they changed without asking us and then tried to charge us for. When I asked to see the one just removed after 8000 miles, it had been 'boxed up and sent back to Kia' but when I asked why and was it for warranty, they got very defensive... I didn't pay for any part of the clutch... which still squeeked!
Now, I'm raspberry ripple I can't work on my own cars anymore but still know what I'm doing/talking about so anyone that tries it on, gets told to 'do one' sharpish!
I've had customers with mot fails that didn't exist so many times, it isn't funny. The best ones are the ones where they say it's effectively a write off and then offer to buy it!
If you find a decent garage, treat them like gold.
I used to work for a Mazda main dealer in Paignton ( a few years ago so not the current or even the one that's just lost the franchise for anyone local!) and to say that the attitude of 'rip em off for everything you can' was started at the very top and as a policy, it was rigorously enforced! I HATED working there. They genuinely would park a car round the back for three days and then declare 'no fault found' even though the car had never been near the workshop - warranty work only of course! They always kept the spare keys on s/h sales cars and then charged the customers for replacements... Mats and flaps were routinely taken out and then sold back to the new owners...
We bought a new KIA a few years ago and the clutch started squeeking - either the pedal or the cable needed lubing or replacing. No, of course it needed a new clutch that they changed without asking us and then tried to charge us for. When I asked to see the one just removed after 8000 miles, it had been 'boxed up and sent back to Kia' but when I asked why and was it for warranty, they got very defensive... I didn't pay for any part of the clutch... which still squeeked!
Now, I'm raspberry ripple I can't work on my own cars anymore but still know what I'm doing/talking about so anyone that tries it on, gets told to 'do one' sharpish!
I've had customers with mot fails that didn't exist so many times, it isn't funny. The best ones are the ones where they say it's effectively a write off and then offer to buy it!
If you find a decent garage, treat them like gold.
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