The £50K Hyundai - A tough sell?
Discussion
WinstonWolf said:
It's the little touches on the Hyundai that will let it down.
Only mentally ill people spend money on leather seats anyway. Leather seats are a triumph of marketing over common sense- Front of seat bases feature PU artificial leather.
WinstonWolf said:
We've got an A8 and an I20, the difference is beyond compare. Hyundai need to up the quality significantly for people to spend large sums on the vehicles. The I20 is fine for what it is, an appliance to get you from A to B cheaply.
Are we talking perceived quality with damped cup holders, soft touch plastics and doors that sound nice when they close or actual quality where the car just works? 
Howard- said:
Ari said:
You don't think it might need Audi levels of quality, detailing and finish too..?
No, 95% of Audi buyers couldn't give a shat about any of that. Why?
Could it be because Audi is seen as an expensive well finished high quality prestige car?
And could that be because an Audi is an expensive well finished prestige high quality car?
After all, if it really is as so many like to suggest 'just the badge', why does the Audi badge have the kudos and the Ford badge doesn't?
Ford made a big push a couple of years ago for the Mondeo to be seen as a prestige Audi A4 alternative (based mainly around the fact that you could suddenly option it with nappa leather). And god knows, the list prices are high enough to be 'in the zone'. It was a joke, you can't just acquire high quality status with a bit of leather and an ad campaign.
So even if, as you suggest, 95% of Audi buyers are buying them 'just for the badge', the badge still has to stand for something, the engineering still has to be behind it, otherwise 'the badge' doesn't become a respected and coveted status symbol.
Just ask Ford.
CYMR0 said:
Agreed.
This is a car that sells for $38k in the US (so £24k + VAT), which means that the UK price is not just unrealistic in this market, it bears no resemblance to the car's manufacturing cost or its intended global market.
With the same spec you are looking at more like $48k, plus VAT. That's £37kThis is a car that sells for $38k in the US (so £24k + VAT), which means that the UK price is not just unrealistic in this market, it bears no resemblance to the car's manufacturing cost or its intended global market.
So it's still £10k overpriced and nobody is going to buy one, but not quite as bad as it first seems.
You can get a tricked out Lexus GS300h for around £37.5k
CYMR0 said:
This is a car that sells for $38k in the US (so £24k + VAT), which means that the UK price is not just unrealistic in this market, it bears no resemblance to the car's manufacturing cost or its intended global market.
Lots of manufacturers do that though - look at Honda; seen as cheap cars in the US (they have Acura for 'upscale'). Where the same models are offered they cost about the same in dollars as they do in pounds here.I think a large number of buyers wouldn't initially notice a drop in quality. From some of the dealer threads large numbers don't even test drive them they care so little. But because clarkson or some other expert says they are good they believe them. Lot's of people can't form their own opinions or don't have the experience to know what is good.
It's a fact that german cars are quality, french cars have crap electrics, alfas will break down and a Porsche will kill you backwards through a hedge.
Now, the practical reason they don't drop the quality is that the influencers would notice. That's what happened to Mercedes in their accountancy period, a drop in quality but people kept buying. The momentum took years to get to Joe public and then it took them years to go back to actually being quality. Skoda went the other way and they are still a joke to lots of people.
It's a fact that german cars are quality, french cars have crap electrics, alfas will break down and a Porsche will kill you backwards through a hedge.
Now, the practical reason they don't drop the quality is that the influencers would notice. That's what happened to Mercedes in their accountancy period, a drop in quality but people kept buying. The momentum took years to get to Joe public and then it took them years to go back to actually being quality. Skoda went the other way and they are still a joke to lots of people.
I'm going back a few years but one of my neighbours really wanted a 3L Laguna!
He eventually contacted Renault when no dealer he contacted could arrange a test drive and they told him that it was a 'flagship' car, and they never intended to actually sell any. He bought an Alfa 166 instead.
He eventually contacted Renault when no dealer he contacted could arrange a test drive and they told him that it was a 'flagship' car, and they never intended to actually sell any. He bought an Alfa 166 instead.
Ari said:
Howard- said:
Ari said:
You don't think it might need Audi levels of quality, detailing and finish too..?
No, 95% of Audi buyers couldn't give a shat about any of that. Why?
Could it be because Audi is seen as an expensive well finished high quality prestige car?
And could that be because an Audi is an expensive well finished prestige high quality car?
After all, if it really is as so many like to suggest 'just the badge', why does the Audi badge have the kudos and the Ford badge doesn't?
Ford made a big push a couple of years ago for the Mondeo to be seen as a prestige Audi A4 alternative (based mainly around the fact that you could suddenly option it with nappa leather). And god knows, the list prices are high enough to be 'in the zone'. It was a joke, you can't just acquire high quality status with a bit of leather and an ad campaign.
So even if, as you suggest, 95% of Audi buyers are buying them 'just for the badge', the badge still has to stand for something, the engineering still has to be behind it, otherwise 'the badge' doesn't become a respected and coveted status symbol.
Just ask Ford.
Nothing says "well-made" like a 1 in 27 engine failure rate 
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-new...
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-new...Although the Genesis is for sale in the UK, Hyundai know they will not sell many. Many if not most of us cannot afford to run large capacity petrol engines anyway. How many 760 BMWs are sold compared to 730D, S500 to S320 CDI and Audi A8 4 ltrs to TDIs.
These cars sell in emerging markets and the US. The UK is not an emerging market. Also people should compare like for like. No point comparing it to a diesel, or saying oh they would sell more if it was a diesel. I doubt they would.
I know this is a debate, but Hyundai know better than us, like Merc, BMW and AUDI. We can't afford their flagship models that's why we buy the cheaper versions. I think the Hyundai is a cheaper, not cheap alternative.
These cars sell in emerging markets and the US. The UK is not an emerging market. Also people should compare like for like. No point comparing it to a diesel, or saying oh they would sell more if it was a diesel. I doubt they would.
I know this is a debate, but Hyundai know better than us, like Merc, BMW and AUDI. We can't afford their flagship models that's why we buy the cheaper versions. I think the Hyundai is a cheaper, not cheap alternative.
It's the car magazine effect:
Car mags harp on about the hewn from granite fit/finish/quality of Audi interiors - something all brands should aspire to. Yet having a high quality interior does not mean the interior is reliable. Switches will fail because they are still built to a cost or for styling. Look at Jap/Korean cars. Most of them have very good quality interiors but all of the bits will still be working when the car is a 15 year old minicab. That's the difference. The Asians have kept the same design stalks etc that are derided as cheap by AutoEvoCarExpressGear because they work!
Car mags harp on about the hewn from granite fit/finish/quality of Audi interiors - something all brands should aspire to. Yet having a high quality interior does not mean the interior is reliable. Switches will fail because they are still built to a cost or for styling. Look at Jap/Korean cars. Most of them have very good quality interiors but all of the bits will still be working when the car is a 15 year old minicab. That's the difference. The Asians have kept the same design stalks etc that are derided as cheap by AutoEvoCarExpressGear because they work!
I have no doubt this will sell in tiny numbers. However, while this car won't appeal to usual German customers, the replacement's replacement for this car may well do. If you want to eventually appeal to this mid-level exec customer, you have to take that leap at some point. They've got my respect anywho.
Why has this thread descent into an Audi vs the World thread?
I don't personally look at the badge when buying cars but more about the ownership experience. So far I have to say Audi has triumph over that, I have owned countless Audis (well serviced and maintained) and I am very happy with them. Top notch user experience and the interior is so quite even my OCD self is satisfied. I've owned brand new BMWs and even though they are nicer cars to drive I cannot say the same for interior build quality. Close second would be Honda as I've also owned several and they are rock solid.
If I have the chance to sample the Genesis and feel that I would get as a whole ownership experience for what I've paid for I would go for it but let's face in it, in the UK Hyundai is far from a premium car and on this occasion it's trying to command a premium price.
I don't personally look at the badge when buying cars but more about the ownership experience. So far I have to say Audi has triumph over that, I have owned countless Audis (well serviced and maintained) and I am very happy with them. Top notch user experience and the interior is so quite even my OCD self is satisfied. I've owned brand new BMWs and even though they are nicer cars to drive I cannot say the same for interior build quality. Close second would be Honda as I've also owned several and they are rock solid.
If I have the chance to sample the Genesis and feel that I would get as a whole ownership experience for what I've paid for I would go for it but let's face in it, in the UK Hyundai is far from a premium car and on this occasion it's trying to command a premium price.
I can bet that most of you that are saying the Genesis is garbage have never even sat in one. I have drove them back in the US, they are amazingly nice vehicles. The 5.0 is a beast of a motor. If anyone has any doubts about a Hyundai Genesis feel free to catch me at the next Haynes motor museum breakfast club, I will have my 2013 Hyundai Genesis coupe 3.8 there that I brought here from the US.
I will say that I think it is a bit overpriced for the UK market. In the US, $50k will get you a fully optioned out 5.0.
I will say that I think it is a bit overpriced for the UK market. In the US, $50k will get you a fully optioned out 5.0.
crazy about cars said:
Why has this thread descent into an Audi vs the World thread?
I don't personally look at the badge when buying cars but more about the ownership experience. So far I have to say Audi has triumph over that, I have owned countless Audis (well serviced and maintained) and I am very happy with them. Top notch user experience and the interior is so quite even my OCD self is satisfied. I've owned brand new BMWs and even though they are nicer cars to drive I cannot say the same for interior build quality. Close second would be Honda as I've also owned several and they are rock solid.
If I have the chance to sample the Genesis and feel that I would get as a whole ownership experience for what I've paid for I would go for it but let's face in it, in the UK Hyundai is far from a premium car and on this occasion it's trying to command a premium price.
Audi is supposedly the benchmark for quality interiors now, that is why there is a comparison. In terms of premium price, how much does a petrol premium German car cost with it specced the same. If the Genesis is the size of an S Class then £50k is not premium, a Merc must cost in region of £70k plus.I don't personally look at the badge when buying cars but more about the ownership experience. So far I have to say Audi has triumph over that, I have owned countless Audis (well serviced and maintained) and I am very happy with them. Top notch user experience and the interior is so quite even my OCD self is satisfied. I've owned brand new BMWs and even though they are nicer cars to drive I cannot say the same for interior build quality. Close second would be Honda as I've also owned several and they are rock solid.
If I have the chance to sample the Genesis and feel that I would get as a whole ownership experience for what I've paid for I would go for it but let's face in it, in the UK Hyundai is far from a premium car and on this occasion it's trying to command a premium price.
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