The £50K Hyundai - A tough sell?

[Martin_Hx]

Howard- said:

I just noticed the A8 vs I20 comparison... Why on earth is a near bottom of the pile Hyundai being compared to a flagship Audi which could probably approach a 6-figure price if you specced one up?

I did wonder the same

[KTF]

WinstonWolf said:

We've got an A8 and an I20, the difference is beyond compare. Hyundai need to up the quality significantly for people to spend large sums on the vehicles. The I20 is fine for what it is, an appliance to get you from A to B cheaply.

You are comparing the i20 to an A8 and expect them to have the same quality of interiors?

You don't think that Hyundai might spend a bit more on the interior of the Genesis compared to the i20?

Edited by KTF on Friday 22 May 10:11

[Toaster Pilot]

Ari said:

Surely, surely they won't sell a single one of these in the UK (beyond pre-registering and offering as a secondhand car at 50% of list)?

http://www.hyundai.co.uk/new-cars/genesis

Next year's minicab!

I hate PH sometimes - this car has been mentioned loads in threads about Hyundai in the past "why don't they bring this over from the US" etc yet when they actually do we get "nobody's going to buy this are they?"

Make your minds up!

[WinstonWolf]

KTF said:

WinstonWolf said:

We've got an A8 and an I20, the difference is beyond compare. Hyundai need to up the quality significantly for people to spend large sums on the vehicles. The I20 is fine for what it is, an appliance to get you from A to B cheaply.

You are comparing the i20 to an A8 and expect them to have the same quality of interiors?

You don't think that Hyundai might spend a bit more on the interior of the Genesis compared to the i20?

Edited by KTF on Friday 22 May 10:11

I'm hoping they do, their current range is very flimsy. We were looking at A1s recently, the panel thickness (a bugbear for me on the I20) is noticeably better.

This is the point, you're looking for something very different when you're spending £50k.

[KTF]

The i20 (starting at £10695) and A1 (starting at £14255) are not rivals though. I cant see how you think they are a valid comparison?

Anyway, at 50k the things people look for will be different. Some like toys (Lexus, Infinity, etc.) some like impressing the neighbours (German brands).

[Ari]

DoctorX said:

Ari said:

Howard- said:

Ari said:

You don't think it might need Audi levels of quality, detailing and finish too..?

No, 95% of Audi buyers couldn't give a shat about any of that.

Ok, for the sake of argument, lets say you're right.

Why?

Could it be because Audi is seen as an expensive well finished high quality prestige car?

And could that be because an Audi is an expensive well finished prestige high quality car?

After all, if it really is as so many like to suggest 'just the badge', why does the Audi badge have the kudos and the Ford badge doesn't?

Ford made a big push a couple of years ago for the Mondeo to be seen as a prestige Audi A4 alternative (based mainly around the fact that you could suddenly option it with nappa leather). And god knows, the list prices are high enough to be 'in the zone'. It was a joke, you can't just acquire high quality status with a bit of leather and an ad campaign.

So even if, as you suggest, 95% of Audi buyers are buying them 'just for the badge', the badge still has to stand for something, the engineering still has to be behind it, otherwise 'the badge' doesn't become a respected and coveted status symbol.

Just ask Ford.

I tend to agree but at the end of the day they are seen as an aspirational car and people want to be seen driving them. I suspect this would be the case if the plastics came from a Christmas cracker.

Ok, going round in circles a bit here but - why is Audi an aspirational car and a Hyundai isn't? Do you believe the four rings have some mystical hypnotic effect, or could it be something else, like, I don't know, an Audi is a very stylish well put together high quality car?

If you really drill down to what is aspirational these days, in the main it is wanting to be seen as rich and successful. Rich successful people tend to wear nice clothes, quality watches, cars of a high standard (with the exception of the famed PH Yorkshireman millionaire that everyone knows who drives a shagged out Vauxhall Cavalier of course).

Thus the wannabe upwardly mobile aspire to those things so they can be seen (they believe) in the same light.

So we come back to the same thing, even if (as the PH masses seem so very desperate to believe) the ONLY reason for someone choosing an Audi is because it is a status symbol, it still has to be a desirable high quality product to become that status symbol in the first place.

If that weren't the case every manufacturer would double their prices and run an ad campaign insisting that they were now the aspirational choice and, according to PH folklore about why people buy Audis, have the world beating a path to their door.

[Ten Four]

Ari said:

I've obviously not made my point very well.

Yes of course the badge has appeal, but only if it is backed up by the product.

So yes, if Hyundai build all their cars to the same standards as Audi (finish, quality, engineering, longetivy etc etc) and then market it correctly they will end up as a premium product. Look at Skoda, who have made huge gains by upping the quality of their product.

The point is, despite what the Internet bores like to insist, you cannot just wake up one day and announce that your car range is a premium product with a prestige badge via a flash marketing campaign and expect people to buy that.

An Audi has cachet as a premium product, because, guess what, it's a premium product. Not because 'oh everyone just gets taken in by the badge'.

It only works that way on Internet forums by people who perpetually regurgitate nonsense (see also 'all manual Mercedes have awful gearboxes, all Bentleys are driven by footballers, the BMW 5 Series is a reps car' etc etc etc).

I'm sorry but I can't let this slide.
Mate has an Audi A4 2009 1.8T. The interior feels mass produced and very generic but then again it is a mass produced "luxury car". He's already been through one gearbox and he isn't a car person, (aka doesn't drive hard) at 65k kms - had to shell out 8k (AUD) as was outside warranty period. As for longevity - second hand germans older than 7 years have crap resale and everyone is scared of them because they break.

Hyundai / Kia offer 7 year new car warranty in Aus.

As for A1 vs i20.... My mate's mum just bought a new A1. Base engine but specc'd with stereo and nice things. Came out at 40k. An i20 here starts at 14-15k.

[Ari]

Toaster Pilot said:

Ari said:

Surely, surely they won't sell a single one of these in the UK (beyond pre-registering and offering as a secondhand car at 50% of list)?

http://www.hyundai.co.uk/new-cars/genesis

Next year's minicab!

I hate PH sometimes - this car has been mentioned loads in threads about Hyundai in the past "why don't they bring this over from the US" etc yet when they actually do we get "nobody's going to buy this are they?"

Make your minds up!

You missed out a rather important point there. No one is going to buy it for fifty grand!

[Ari]

Ten Four said:

I'm sorry but I can't let this slide.
Mate has an Audi A4 2009 1.8T. The interior feels mass produced and very generic but then again it is a mass produced "luxury car". He's already been through one gearbox and he isn't a car person, (aka doesn't drive hard) at 65k kms - had to shell out 8k (AUD) as was outside warranty period. As for longevity - second hand germans older than 7 years have crap resale and everyone is scared of them because they break.

Hyundai / Kia offer 7 year new car warranty in Aus.

So if we can find one broken car from every manufacturer we can prove they're all crap!

Disagree entirely about residuals.

[Howard-]

Ari said:

Ok, going round in circles a bit here but - why is Audi an aspirational car and a Hyundai isn't?

Probably because whilst the likes of Hyundai and Kia used to be junk, they have significantly upped their game and nowadays are lot less junk, whereas Audi are resting on their laurels.

Ari said:

Do you believe the four rings have some mystical hypnotic effect, or could it be something else, like, I don't know, an Audi is a very stylish well put together high quality car?

Considering I don't think the A3/A4 are significantly better-built than any other mainstream car that isn't French, I'd suggest it's probably the former.


Platform sharing is a fantastic thing but when you've essentially got Skoda, Seat, Volkswagen, and Audi all sharing most things bar a few superficial soft-touch interior plastic coatings, whilst selling at vastly different price points, something's gotta give.



And before anyone asks, no I don't think I wouldn't ever buy a Hyundai. But I wouldn't ever consider buying an Audi either, unless its name began with S or RS.

[thelawnet]

Ari said:

Disagree entirely about residuals.

To be clear, while residuals might be better on a mid-market saloon for German vs 'mass-market' brands, the residuals on German full-size luxury cars is bloody terrible. A £60k 7-series is easily £20k after 3 years.

There really are no logical 'residuals' arguments when it comes to buying any kind of new luxo-barge.

[WinstonWolf]

KTF said:

The i20 (starting at £10695) and A1 (starting at £14255) are not rivals though. I cant see how you think they are a valid comparison?

Anyway, at 50k the things people look for will be different. Some like toys (Lexus, Infinity, etc.) some like impressing the neighbours (German brands).

Better ask my missus then, she's thinking of swapping an I20 for an A1...

For me a £50K Hyundai is a tough sell, other people are going to have to take the risk first...

[KTF]

WinstonWolf said:

Better ask my missus then, she's thinking of swapping an I20 for an A1...

Ah, she is trading up. In that case you would like to think there would be a noticable difference given the price points.

I thought she was looking at both and expecting them to be the same inside even though the starting point of an A1 is ~40% more than the starting point of an i20.

[kambites]

WinstonWolf said:

the panel thickness (a bugbear for me on the I20) is noticeably better.

"Better" in what regard? I certainly don't buy the idea that thicker pannels are better - pannels should be as thin and light as possible while maintaining their shape.

[WinstonWolf]

kambites said:

WinstonWolf said:

the panel thickness (a bugbear for me on the I20) is noticeably better.

"Better" in what regard? I certainly don't buy the idea that thicker pannels are better - pannels should be as thin and light as possible while maintaining their shape.

Hyundai ones don't maintain their shape, that's the problem.

[Ari]

thelawnet said:

To be clear, while residuals might be better on a mid-market saloon for German vs 'mass-market' brands, the residuals on German full-size luxury cars is bloody terrible. A £60k 7-series is easily £20k after 3 years.

How much do you think a £50K Hyundai will be after three years..?

[Ari]

Howard- said:

Considering I don't think the A3/A4 are significantly better-built than any other mainstream car that isn't French, I'd suggest it's probably the former.


Platform sharing is a fantastic thing but when you've essentially got Skoda, Seat, Volkswagen, and Audi all sharing most things bar a few superficial soft-touch interior plastic coatings, whilst selling at vastly different price points, something's gotta give.



And before anyone asks, no I don't think I wouldn't ever buy a Hyundai. But I wouldn't ever consider buying an Audi either, unless its name began with S or RS.

Couldn't agree more that Hyundai and Kia have upped their game - what they've achieved is hugely impressive.

They're not premium cars though.

[Pauly-b]

Ari said:

How much do you think a £50K Hyundai will be after three years..?

Seven pound fifty, 2 conkers and a packet of Jammy Dodgers?

Not sure about the biccies though if pushed....

[WinstonWolf]

Ari said:

Howard- said:

Considering I don't think the A3/A4 are significantly better-built than any other mainstream car that isn't French, I'd suggest it's probably the former.


Platform sharing is a fantastic thing but when you've essentially got Skoda, Seat, Volkswagen, and Audi all sharing most things bar a few superficial soft-touch interior plastic coatings, whilst selling at vastly different price points, something's gotta give.



And before anyone asks, no I don't think I wouldn't ever buy a Hyundai. But I wouldn't ever consider buying an Audi either, unless its name began with S or RS.

Couldn't agree more that Hyundai and Kia have upped their game - what they've achieved is hugely impressive.

They're not premium cars though.

They're very good for what they are, the warranty is superb. If you're not bothered by the driving experience and just want to get about they're great.

[Howard-]

Ari said:

Couldn't agree more that Hyundai and Kia have upped their game - what they've achieved is hugely impressive.

They're not premium cars though.

No, they're not, and I never said they were!