325ti or Cooper s or something else?!
Discussion
The CTR @ 3k might be flaky! There are many which have been abused by people who just don't look after them, yes they can take a lot of stick (Because Honda) but they are old cars now and need a little TLC surely, plus as mentioned above they are not cruisers, you can waft around at 3k rpm or drive with your pants on fire but they still bump and bounce around on our lovely roads.
Plus don't have toys, ABS and AC are as good as it gets
Plus don't have toys, ABS and AC are as good as it gets
danp said:
Interesting thread as considering these mysely as a fun-ish daily. Just sold my CSL and looking for something 2+2 that's a bit more interesting than my civic type-s. Was thinking 130i but might now go for a cheaper option at up to say 5k.
Leins - surprised you say the 325ti likes revs as believe they peak at about 6k, which put me off a bit. I had the 3.0 m54 in a z4 and always felt that it was a smooth but lazy lump. What did the facelift add to these? (6 gears identifies one?)
Other cars on my varied list below, with my brief thoughts!
Clio Cup - too flaky build/reliability?
e30 325i, e36 328i - too old and hard to find a non abused/rusty one?
CTR - I'm perhaps too old for the hard ride and revs
rx8 - Can get one with a rebuilt engine for 2k, a lot of practical rwd car for the money!
MCS JCW - small, light(ish), fun. Slightly flaky build(?) and inefficient but poss my preferred option at the mo'!
It's more the way the engine responds over 3.5k RPM than where the red-line is really, and I always found that it's above that threshold where the car really came alive. Also I loved the noise in it - not CSL aggresive, but still always put a smile on my face. I just always found the car more fun and special than any other similarly-engined E46s I've drivenLeins - surprised you say the 325ti likes revs as believe they peak at about 6k, which put me off a bit. I had the 3.0 m54 in a z4 and always felt that it was a smooth but lazy lump. What did the facelift add to these? (6 gears identifies one?)
Other cars on my varied list below, with my brief thoughts!
Clio Cup - too flaky build/reliability?
e30 325i, e36 328i - too old and hard to find a non abused/rusty one?
CTR - I'm perhaps too old for the hard ride and revs
rx8 - Can get one with a rebuilt engine for 2k, a lot of practical rwd car for the money!
MCS JCW - small, light(ish), fun. Slightly flaky build(?) and inefficient but poss my preferred option at the mo'!
Facelift (mid-2003) added the 6-speed, plus the redesigned rear-end, getting rid of the "Lexus" tail-lights for red ones, a longer boot handle, etc to give a somewhat cleaner look
E30s are a bit too old for daily duties IMO now, but then I'm a bit of a lightweight when it comes to such things, so I can understand if others think they're worth the effort. I prefer using mine for just holiday trips and things like that, rather than the daily grind
Just found a couple of pics of my old one, sorry about the quality:
Edited by Leins on Tuesday 26th May 11:02
What sort of mpg would I expect to see out of a manual 325ti?
Become a massive fan of straight sixes and wondering if one of these would work for a 45 mile each way motorway commute (I lift share so isn't as many miles as it sounds). Have an M54 in my 530i but don't really want to run the E39 as a daily snotter as its too nice.
Do the rear seats fold?
Become a massive fan of straight sixes and wondering if one of these would work for a 45 mile each way motorway commute (I lift share so isn't as many miles as it sounds). Have an M54 in my 530i but don't really want to run the E39 as a daily snotter as its too nice.
Do the rear seats fold?
lufbramatt said:
What sort of mpg would I expect to see out of a manual 325ti?
Become a massive fan of straight sixes and wondering if one of these would work for a 45 mile each way motorway commute (I lift share so isn't as many miles as it sounds). Have an M54 in my 530i but don't really want to run the E39 as a daily snotter as its too nice.
Do the rear seats fold?
It's no secret that I'm a big fan of these, I'll bore anyone who will listen! I bought mine as my daily duties were being shared between a Carbon Airboxed E30 320is and a CSL, neither of which I felt happy using them as such. The 325ti fits the bill perfectly for me, you can wring it's neck when you're in the mood and get your thrills with the risk of jail (CSL) and its modern and cheap enough to feel confident about using everyday with wincing at every stone chip/door ding.(I'll admit to being a bit of a fanny when it comes to that)Become a massive fan of straight sixes and wondering if one of these would work for a 45 mile each way motorway commute (I lift share so isn't as many miles as it sounds). Have an M54 in my 530i but don't really want to run the E39 as a daily snotter as its too nice.
Do the rear seats fold?
MPG wise....on average I get about 25 but this is mostly town driving and a small commute to work but have seen an easy 35+ on a steady run. For me I couldnt ask for anymore, it handles well, makes a great noise and likes to be revved, and the biggest bonus is that SWMBO likes driving it unlike anything else I own which allows me to keep them!! Naturaly I make out that I'm hard done by having to drive a stumpy little hatchback of course
Oh, yes the seats fold and it has a natty little storage compartment in the parcel shelf (an option I think). For ref mines an Imola red six speed sport.
35+ on a run sounds ideal... same as what my old 2.0 16v Passat gets, which is my current commuting wagon which I'm thinking of replacing, but with added straight 6 smoothness. Was considering a Z3 or early Z4, but no-way I can really justify a car I only ever be able to use alone now that Lufbramatt Jr. has arrived.
Fuel consumption - now there's a question. If you've searched BMW General you will have seen that there are many 325ti drivers getting north of 30mpg, particularly given the type of journeys you allude to. From memory I think most of them are in the 6-speeder.
However my experience, over approx 40k miles in a 52 plate 5 speeder is considerably worse. On a longer trip I would expect around 29mpg but, in day to day usage, in traffic and shorter journeys my OBC is showing 22.6 and has been for the past 3 or 4 years to be honest. I get about 300 miles from 60 litres of Shell Nitro or Tesco 99.
I'd be the first to admit that the car is always enthusiastically driven and, as previous posters have said, the sound once you reach 4500rpm is addictive so yes I could improve it slightly. As an indicator to my driving style, I got slightly better consumption from an E61 545i and 34 mpg on a run when I borrowed my brother's E90 330i.
I am sure the earlier version's consumption will be higher primarily because of the 5 speed box as my fifth is a proper old style top gear rather than a cruising gear in that it will readily rev to the red line in fifth. This allied to the quicker steering rack, sports suspension etc makes for a cracking little car.
Mine is coming up 108k miles and I love it. Yes, it hasn't been cheap to run as pretty much all the long term consumables associated with cars of a certain age have been attended to in the last couple of years- clutch, flywheel, brake discs n pads all round plus 2x front calipers, suspension bushes (now part poly/ part BNW oem}, shocks and springs ( now running Bilstein B12 Pro-Kit),rear wiper motor.
Best of all it's a hatch back so my 50kg hound can jump in the back as yes, the rear seats fold down so it can be used to cart stuff around when he's not in there.
So, in short, I love it. Mine looks a bit tired cosmetically as some kind soul hit the front bumper in a car park and I park in public car parks at work but, on 17" wheels with the 225/245 combo it's like a mini M3 and that soundtrack is to die for.
And no, I'm not an 18 year old boy racer - maybe 40 years ago, yes - but a grandfather who enjoys himself every time he gets into his "little shopping car" as my brother called it............before he drove it.
PS mine is a dead ringer for the one in the above article, Flamenco Red with the Style 68 wheels
HTH
Kev
However my experience, over approx 40k miles in a 52 plate 5 speeder is considerably worse. On a longer trip I would expect around 29mpg but, in day to day usage, in traffic and shorter journeys my OBC is showing 22.6 and has been for the past 3 or 4 years to be honest. I get about 300 miles from 60 litres of Shell Nitro or Tesco 99.
I'd be the first to admit that the car is always enthusiastically driven and, as previous posters have said, the sound once you reach 4500rpm is addictive so yes I could improve it slightly. As an indicator to my driving style, I got slightly better consumption from an E61 545i and 34 mpg on a run when I borrowed my brother's E90 330i.
I am sure the earlier version's consumption will be higher primarily because of the 5 speed box as my fifth is a proper old style top gear rather than a cruising gear in that it will readily rev to the red line in fifth. This allied to the quicker steering rack, sports suspension etc makes for a cracking little car.
Mine is coming up 108k miles and I love it. Yes, it hasn't been cheap to run as pretty much all the long term consumables associated with cars of a certain age have been attended to in the last couple of years- clutch, flywheel, brake discs n pads all round plus 2x front calipers, suspension bushes (now part poly/ part BNW oem}, shocks and springs ( now running Bilstein B12 Pro-Kit),rear wiper motor.
Best of all it's a hatch back so my 50kg hound can jump in the back as yes, the rear seats fold down so it can be used to cart stuff around when he's not in there.
So, in short, I love it. Mine looks a bit tired cosmetically as some kind soul hit the front bumper in a car park and I park in public car parks at work but, on 17" wheels with the 225/245 combo it's like a mini M3 and that soundtrack is to die for.
And no, I'm not an 18 year old boy racer - maybe 40 years ago, yes - but a grandfather who enjoys himself every time he gets into his "little shopping car" as my brother called it............before he drove it.
PS mine is a dead ringer for the one in the above article, Flamenco Red with the Style 68 wheels
HTH
Kev
2xtwins said:
Fuel consumption - now there's a question. If you've searched BMW General you will have seen that there are many 325ti drivers getting north of 30mpg, particularly given the type of journeys you allude to. From memory I think most of them are in the 6-speeder.
However my experience, over approx 40k miles in a 52 plate 5 speeder is considerably worse. On a longer trip I would expect around 29mpg but, in day to day usage, in traffic and shorter journeys my OBC is showing 22.6 and has been for the past 3 or 4 years to be honest. I get about 300 miles from 60 litres of Shell Nitro or Tesco 99.
I'd be the first to admit that the car is always enthusiastically driven and, as previous posters have said, the sound once you reach 4500rpm is addictive so yes I could improve it slightly. As an indicator to my driving style, I got slightly better consumption from an E61 545i and 34 mpg on a run when I borrowed my brother's E90 330i.
I am sure the earlier version's consumption will be higher primarily because of the 5 speed box as my fifth is a proper old style top gear rather than a cruising gear in that it will readily rev to the red line in fifth. This allied to the quicker steering rack, sports suspension etc makes for a cracking little car.
Mine is coming up 108k miles and I love it. Yes, it hasn't been cheap to run as pretty much all the long term consumables associated with cars of a certain age have been attended to in the last couple of years- clutch, flywheel, brake discs n pads all round plus 2x front calipers, suspension bushes (now part poly/ part BNW oem}, shocks and springs ( now running Bilstein B12 Pro-Kit),rear wiper motor.
Best of all it's a hatch back so my 50kg hound can jump in the back as yes, the rear seats fold down so it can be used to cart stuff around when he's not in there.
So, in short, I love it. Mine looks a bit tired cosmetically as some kind soul hit the front bumper in a car park and I park in public car parks at work but, on 17" wheels with the 225/245 combo it's like a mini M3 and that soundtrack is to die for.
And no, I'm not an 18 year old boy racer - maybe 40 years ago, yes - but a grandfather who enjoys himself every time he gets into his "little shopping car" as my brother called it............before he drove it.
PS mine is a dead ringer for the one in the above article, Flamenco Red with the Style 68 wheels
HTH
Kev
Without wanting to seem picky, the TOP GEAR article car was on Compact specific Style 97 alloys....... But yours may certainly have had Style 68s - many didHowever my experience, over approx 40k miles in a 52 plate 5 speeder is considerably worse. On a longer trip I would expect around 29mpg but, in day to day usage, in traffic and shorter journeys my OBC is showing 22.6 and has been for the past 3 or 4 years to be honest. I get about 300 miles from 60 litres of Shell Nitro or Tesco 99.
I'd be the first to admit that the car is always enthusiastically driven and, as previous posters have said, the sound once you reach 4500rpm is addictive so yes I could improve it slightly. As an indicator to my driving style, I got slightly better consumption from an E61 545i and 34 mpg on a run when I borrowed my brother's E90 330i.
I am sure the earlier version's consumption will be higher primarily because of the 5 speed box as my fifth is a proper old style top gear rather than a cruising gear in that it will readily rev to the red line in fifth. This allied to the quicker steering rack, sports suspension etc makes for a cracking little car.
Mine is coming up 108k miles and I love it. Yes, it hasn't been cheap to run as pretty much all the long term consumables associated with cars of a certain age have been attended to in the last couple of years- clutch, flywheel, brake discs n pads all round plus 2x front calipers, suspension bushes (now part poly/ part BNW oem}, shocks and springs ( now running Bilstein B12 Pro-Kit),rear wiper motor.
Best of all it's a hatch back so my 50kg hound can jump in the back as yes, the rear seats fold down so it can be used to cart stuff around when he's not in there.
So, in short, I love it. Mine looks a bit tired cosmetically as some kind soul hit the front bumper in a car park and I park in public car parks at work but, on 17" wheels with the 225/245 combo it's like a mini M3 and that soundtrack is to die for.
And no, I'm not an 18 year old boy racer - maybe 40 years ago, yes - but a grandfather who enjoys himself every time he gets into his "little shopping car" as my brother called it............before he drove it.
PS mine is a dead ringer for the one in the above article, Flamenco Red with the Style 68 wheels
HTH
Kev
Emeye said:
I meant where did you find the scan? have you got the original mag?
Yes, I have most original mags 
I scanned it in for Leins ( poster above who remembered the article )
I do feel a bit left out though reading the replies as I seem to be the only person with a ti who doesn't also have an E46 CSL
I bought a 325ti Sport Compact last year as a daily and I love it!
It's a pre-facelift so a 5 speed with clear rear lights, but actually I think they look better on mine as it's Imola Red (maybe not so good on other colours though).
I commute 7 miles in it and at least once a week do 60+ miles round trip using M3 (at 50 average), M25 and A3 and trip computer average is currently 31.9mpg, even though I give it large when I can!
On 325s the SE and Sport both come with Sport seats and Sport suspension, but standard wheels on the SE are 16s whereas the Sports all had staggered 17s (7.5" front and 8.5" rear IIRC)with 225/45s on the front and 245/40s on the rear.
I've never driven a Cooper S but my wife had an R53 One followed by an R56 Cooper. While the Cooper S must be significantly quicker a Mini is far less practical in terms of boot space and only 2 rear seats, plus cannot do wafty as well as a 325ti for things like long motorway trips so I suppose it depends a bit whether that matters to the OP.
Personally I would just have to go naturally aspirated straight 6 RWD, and a good 325ti is surely cheaper than a good Cooper S.
Good luck anyway!
It's a pre-facelift so a 5 speed with clear rear lights, but actually I think they look better on mine as it's Imola Red (maybe not so good on other colours though).
I commute 7 miles in it and at least once a week do 60+ miles round trip using M3 (at 50 average), M25 and A3 and trip computer average is currently 31.9mpg, even though I give it large when I can!
On 325s the SE and Sport both come with Sport seats and Sport suspension, but standard wheels on the SE are 16s whereas the Sports all had staggered 17s (7.5" front and 8.5" rear IIRC)with 225/45s on the front and 245/40s on the rear.
I've never driven a Cooper S but my wife had an R53 One followed by an R56 Cooper. While the Cooper S must be significantly quicker a Mini is far less practical in terms of boot space and only 2 rear seats, plus cannot do wafty as well as a 325ti for things like long motorway trips so I suppose it depends a bit whether that matters to the OP.
Personally I would just have to go naturally aspirated straight 6 RWD, and a good 325ti is surely cheaper than a good Cooper S.
Good luck anyway!
s m said:
Yes, I have most original mags
I scanned it in for Leins ( poster above who remembered the article )
I do feel a bit left out though reading the replies as I seem to be the only person with a ti who doesn't also have an E46 CSL
There does seem to be a recurring trend here, which is why I reckon DanP will be a fan too. Although I think I may just have a thing for Silver Grey E46s built in 2003 I scanned it in for Leins ( poster above who remembered the article )
I do feel a bit left out though reading the replies as I seem to be the only person with a ti who doesn't also have an E46 CSL
And one great advantage as has already been said is I found the Compact is just at the limit of where a car can really be driven enthusiastically (where circumstances allow) without it being too fast. It's not a slow car, but it can really be worked when the mood takes
Leins said:
There does seem to be a recurring trend here, which is why I reckon DanP will be a fan too. Although I think I may just have a thing for Silver Grey E46s built in 2003
And one great advantage as has already been said is I found the Compact is just at the limit of where a car can really be driven enthusiastically (where circumstances allow) without it being too fast. It's not a slow car, but it can really be worked when the mood takes
I'd like to try one, sadly most seem to be auto and none close to me for sale. Will keep an eye out but reckon a MCS JCW might give me more of a buzz, need to give one of each a go really.And one great advantage as has already been said is I found the Compact is just at the limit of where a car can really be driven enthusiastically (where circumstances allow) without it being too fast. It's not a slow car, but it can really be worked when the mood takes
Edited by danp on Wednesday 27th May 13:59
Hmm I think you guys have made up my mind on the 325ti. Now I need to find one, the facelift model is incredibly rare. I know the running costs will be a bit higher but hopefully the engine, noise and comfort will make up for that! I was also pleasantly surprised to see that despite their weight they still do 0-100mph in 17 seconds which is type r pace aswell!
Cheers
Cheers
Jonstar said:
With a budget of circa £3k I've been looking at a few cars:
325ti facelift - seems massively underrated, straight 6, 192 bhp, RWD, lovely interior and lots of toys, boring?
Mini cooper s jcw (r53) - possibly one of the last great hot hatches, sounds good with lots of torque, handles well, unreliable? Overpriced?
Overpriced??? Can you really get a JCW for 3k? I can't see any on Autotrader or PH classifieds. Cooper S, sure - but not JCW325ti facelift - seems massively underrated, straight 6, 192 bhp, RWD, lovely interior and lots of toys, boring?
Mini cooper s jcw (r53) - possibly one of the last great hot hatches, sounds good with lots of torque, handles well, unreliable? Overpriced?
I might be interested in one myself for that price.
For a 3k hot hatch(if you can get on with the driving position) the answer is always Clio 182, the simple fact is nothing in the price range will touch it.
But since you cannot get on with the driving position, I would go mini, they stand out a bit more and I just have a soft spot for them haha.
But since you cannot get on with the driving position, I would go mini, they stand out a bit more and I just have a soft spot for them haha.
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