RE: The problem with Porsches: Tell Me I'm Wrong
Discussion
I'm sure that some people (Porsche owners and other drivers alike) believe that their particular style of Dad-Dancing at parties is absolutely awesome to behold - based solely on the looks and smiles and excitement exhibited by other people in the room.
Sadly, what other people actually think, does not always follow their expectations.
Porsche used to be a top-trump rival to Ferrari and Lamborghini, but ever since the accountants started expanding the range below the Iconic '911' benchmark - in search of market share at a significantly lower price - the marque has suffered.
The 92X series cars never really took off, as they were a niche, but today with early Boxsters flooding the used market and even being barry'd on Wheeler Dealers, you have accept the reality of the situation.
They may have some cracking top spec cars, but people will no longer envy a badge that anyone can own and park down the pub on a Sunday.
Edited.
Don't forget, WD have also had an Elise to barry up with black wheels, but with their stripped out interiors and economy class legroom, they only have a limited appeal (to short people, that can do away with creature comforts).
Sadly, what other people actually think, does not always follow their expectations.
Porsche used to be a top-trump rival to Ferrari and Lamborghini, but ever since the accountants started expanding the range below the Iconic '911' benchmark - in search of market share at a significantly lower price - the marque has suffered.
The 92X series cars never really took off, as they were a niche, but today with early Boxsters flooding the used market and even being barry'd on Wheeler Dealers, you have accept the reality of the situation.
They may have some cracking top spec cars, but people will no longer envy a badge that anyone can own and park down the pub on a Sunday.
Edited.
Don't forget, WD have also had an Elise to barry up with black wheels, but with their stripped out interiors and economy class legroom, they only have a limited appeal (to short people, that can do away with creature comforts).
Edited by Mandalore on Tuesday 26th May 12:10
You are definitely wrong!!!!
I have owned or driven almost ever car there is under £200k and nobody makes cars like the quality of Porsche.
I currently have a 991 GTS and after a spirited drive yesterday I am astounding by the double nature of the car, it's a quiet GT that my kids can get in the back of one minute, press some buttons and it's an utter weapon. Sounds amazing too!
I owned a V12 Vantage which was beautiful, sounded incredible and was a pleasure to own. But it felt prehistoric in every way compared to a Cayman S.
Electronics do not get in the way of driving, poor driving does. I was recently on track in somebodies 997 RS which I was driving extremely quickly, at no point did the electronics (which I left on) stop me from going fast. Because they only come on if you are doing something wrong.
And for the record, after driving the RS I jumped in my GTS to drive home, and the electronic steering in my car was 90% of the quality of the 'track' orientated RS. So I'm perfectly happy with it.
I have owned or driven almost ever car there is under £200k and nobody makes cars like the quality of Porsche.
I currently have a 991 GTS and after a spirited drive yesterday I am astounding by the double nature of the car, it's a quiet GT that my kids can get in the back of one minute, press some buttons and it's an utter weapon. Sounds amazing too!
I owned a V12 Vantage which was beautiful, sounded incredible and was a pleasure to own. But it felt prehistoric in every way compared to a Cayman S.
Electronics do not get in the way of driving, poor driving does. I was recently on track in somebodies 997 RS which I was driving extremely quickly, at no point did the electronics (which I left on) stop me from going fast. Because they only come on if you are doing something wrong.
And for the record, after driving the RS I jumped in my GTS to drive home, and the electronic steering in my car was 90% of the quality of the 'track' orientated RS. So I'm perfectly happy with it.
ORD said:
Who cares? I would rather people didn't envy me or, indeed, have any feelings about me at all based on the car I drive!
Agreed. Sometimes I drive my Smart ForTwo diesel which I have had from 2004,and I do not feel in any way inferior as a person to when I am behind the wheel of a Porsche. Equally, I drive many rental cars of generally boring characteristics and it makes no difference to me.All True, and i have always much preferred a vehicle i can use more of its power regularly, and use it to (or close to) its limits safely and have a smile on face.
I have had the pleasure of riding some very quick motorbikes, but all of them only really excite me when it becomes quite dangerous for L&L (Life & Licence). The problem is, the engineering has taken some vehicles to an extreme level and getting that driver/rider buzz is hard at sensible speeds.
Last week i drove a mini cooper GP for the whole week on my 130 mile commute, Now that's a car that put a smile on my face for the whole week, and i enjoyed every corner, in some ways it left me wondering why you would want a lot more out of a car.
I have had the pleasure of riding some very quick motorbikes, but all of them only really excite me when it becomes quite dangerous for L&L (Life & Licence). The problem is, the engineering has taken some vehicles to an extreme level and getting that driver/rider buzz is hard at sensible speeds.
Last week i drove a mini cooper GP for the whole week on my 130 mile commute, Now that's a car that put a smile on my face for the whole week, and i enjoyed every corner, in some ways it left me wondering why you would want a lot more out of a car.
What an interesting thread.
I've gone through three 911s in the last 4 years, a 996 C4S, a 996 Turbo and a 997 C4S. All amazing cars in the their own right with each having their own strengths. The 997 was such a complete piece of kit.
However, I really didn't get on or bond with any of them. I found them to be sterile - for me I commute on a train every day so wanted something fun, something to enjoy. I preferred my old S2000 for pound for pound smiles. The modern 911 is an awesome car but it's a poor toy. I will say I've not gone GT3 route, but I want a road car not a track toy. If I wanted practicality I would have an M4.
In between the Turbo and 997 I had a 360. I now have a 4C. The Italians win hands down (as do the Brits - Elise, Exige, Evora), there is more drama, more occasion, more fun. I'm probably slower on my favourite roads but I am smiling more. I'd rather have something I feel I am enjoying at legal(ish) speeds - the modern 911 is so capable you are doing really sill speeds before it starts to move around and feel as though you are actually doing anything.
Ultimately it depends on what you want. I want a toy not a form of transport. The only Porsche I have an inkling to own is the Boxster Spyder.
The 360 and 4C make me use them when I can, to just go and drive. The 911 was used when I needed to.
And to defend the 4C (again) there is more than enough substance to go along with the style. Lap times are not everything if a) you are not on track often and b) you are not a driving god. I am neither.
I've gone through three 911s in the last 4 years, a 996 C4S, a 996 Turbo and a 997 C4S. All amazing cars in the their own right with each having their own strengths. The 997 was such a complete piece of kit.
However, I really didn't get on or bond with any of them. I found them to be sterile - for me I commute on a train every day so wanted something fun, something to enjoy. I preferred my old S2000 for pound for pound smiles. The modern 911 is an awesome car but it's a poor toy. I will say I've not gone GT3 route, but I want a road car not a track toy. If I wanted practicality I would have an M4.
In between the Turbo and 997 I had a 360. I now have a 4C. The Italians win hands down (as do the Brits - Elise, Exige, Evora), there is more drama, more occasion, more fun. I'm probably slower on my favourite roads but I am smiling more. I'd rather have something I feel I am enjoying at legal(ish) speeds - the modern 911 is so capable you are doing really sill speeds before it starts to move around and feel as though you are actually doing anything.
Ultimately it depends on what you want. I want a toy not a form of transport. The only Porsche I have an inkling to own is the Boxster Spyder.
The 360 and 4C make me use them when I can, to just go and drive. The 911 was used when I needed to.
And to defend the 4C (again) there is more than enough substance to go along with the style. Lap times are not everything if a) you are not on track often and b) you are not a driving god. I am neither.
Nero44 said:
What an interesting thread.
(...)
The Italians win hands down (as do the Brits), there is more drama, more occasion, more fun. I'm probably slower on my favourite roads but I am smiling more. I'd rather have something I feel I am enjoying at legal(ish) speeds - the modern 911 is so capable you are doing really sill speeds before it starts to move around and feel as though you are actually doing anything.
Lap times are not everything if a) you are not on track often and b) you are not a driving god. I am neither.
I agree. Dzjerman cars have the ability to feel like tools rather than weapons. OT: Oldtimer Alfa Spider this thursday BTW.(...)
The Italians win hands down (as do the Brits), there is more drama, more occasion, more fun. I'm probably slower on my favourite roads but I am smiling more. I'd rather have something I feel I am enjoying at legal(ish) speeds - the modern 911 is so capable you are doing really sill speeds before it starts to move around and feel as though you are actually doing anything.
Lap times are not everything if a) you are not on track often and b) you are not a driving god. I am neither.
Nero44 said:
And to defend the 4C (again) there is more than enough substance to go along with the style. Lap times are not everything if a) you are not on track often and b) you are not a driving god. I am neither.
You don't have to be a driving god to want a manual 'box and/or a decent engine.Lordglenmorangie said:
rb5er said:
10 a penny these days.
Is that a fact 
Some of the special ones are indeed lovely lovely cars but the sheer amount of Porsches on the roads has certainly made them less desirable than they used to be.
They used to be akin to supercars with their own unique shape and style. Kids would have pictures of even the "lowly" Carrera on their bedroom wall. Now they are sportscars of which you see several on any/every journey.
They're too big, too heavy, too powerful and too fast for the real world. Not too many of us commute to the office via the Nurburgring. When I am driving a sports car I want it to be a sports car, not a German Corvette. That's why I have a Lotus Elise. The only Porsche I would consider is they Ceyenne, but then I can get that one from VW.
Ed Straker said:
NOBODY lets a Porsche out of a T-junction, me included.
Ed Straker said:
And while I wouldn't say they are driven BY cocks, they seem to be driven LIKE a cock, hence the expression "giving it the beans" has a whole other meaning if you drive a Porsche.
I wonder what car a prize cock like you drives! Something green perhaps?The whole basis of the thread is too specific. The same is arguably true of all cars from a Polo GTi to a Lamborghini Aventador. Bigger, heavier, less involving, but faster, more composed. less compromised and less demanding to drive. And to apply the question to a Porsche is just hunting headlines - the issue is far more pronounced when you apply it to a fast Golf...
angelicupstarts said:
i had a 914 many years ago ...
a lot of the front was 911 parts ...balance was better , better footprint ..was wider wheelbase the 911 .
it was the baby porker ...but the 914-6 was up there with 911's
came first in class at le mans and most incredible was 7th overall !
then porsche wanted to make a 916 ... think they made 6 prototypes ..they were fast and were to be direct competition for ferrari dino ..
but here was the problem ..the car was a better design then the 911 ..faster ..and expensive if they were to sell it ..
so the top of the range would have changed ...
same problem for porsche today ....all the wishing for a small cheap porsche ..if it is slow it gets laughed at ( not real porsche from porsche people , laughed at from traffic lights if it is slower then fiats and fords )
if it is a great design like a boxster or cayman ...both of these ( mostly the cayman ) could if developed to the full whip a 911 most days ..
its just a great big go around circle ...
all new porsches have to be better then the older ones with more stuff ....911 are in supercar territory
and overtime in the past that porsche has tried a cheap car it damaged the image a bit ( 914 , 924 ....even 944 and maybe 912 )
550 , 356 ...912 were from different eras ..where these small cars were giant killers
anyway i ramble ...i would love a porsche along the lines of an elise ......but they won't make one ....and i can always just get an elise ...for this is what lotus is best in the world for doing
Always said Porsche should have developed the gt1 as the range topper road car and allowed the 911 to become the slower but simpler car it was.a lot of the front was 911 parts ...balance was better , better footprint ..was wider wheelbase the 911 .
it was the baby porker ...but the 914-6 was up there with 911's
came first in class at le mans and most incredible was 7th overall !
then porsche wanted to make a 916 ... think they made 6 prototypes ..they were fast and were to be direct competition for ferrari dino ..
but here was the problem ..the car was a better design then the 911 ..faster ..and expensive if they were to sell it ..
so the top of the range would have changed ...
same problem for porsche today ....all the wishing for a small cheap porsche ..if it is slow it gets laughed at ( not real porsche from porsche people , laughed at from traffic lights if it is slower then fiats and fords )
if it is a great design like a boxster or cayman ...both of these ( mostly the cayman ) could if developed to the full whip a 911 most days ..
its just a great big go around circle ...
all new porsches have to be better then the older ones with more stuff ....911 are in supercar territory
and overtime in the past that porsche has tried a cheap car it damaged the image a bit ( 914 , 924 ....even 944 and maybe 912 )
550 , 356 ...912 were from different eras ..where these small cars were giant killers
anyway i ramble ...i would love a porsche along the lines of an elise ......but they won't make one ....and i can always just get an elise ...for this is what lotus is best in the world for doing
Instead, I suppose they did the Cayman
Edited by Gary C on Tuesday 26th May 21:52
I think PH and Harris etc (Car Journos) are forgetting why Porsche have made this move, there is alot of the market who dont drive 8,9,10/10s at any point in time. They use their 991 to get to the shops and back and tootling round where they live. Now I know this is wrong and Porsches should drive hard, but I think this is a bit of a silly article to come from a car journalist who should really know porsche makes up their market from these buyers who dont go over 60mph. They want a car that has the look and the feel of an expensive car however without being compromising, which the 991s do brilliantly and the 997 did a convincing job of before it.
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