Swapping an M135i for a 997 Turbo. Am I mad?
Discussion
16plates said:
ALOT less than 11k!
Tyres: £700
Servicing: £600
MOT: £40
Repairs: (glove box door, brake light, seat: £200
Fuel: 12k miles at 25mpg: £2115
Total 2 year running cost inc. depreciation (estimate); £3650 + 1k p/y depreciation = £5500
Modifications: £1800 (optional spend, wheels redone, some paint, trim bits etc...)
Sell it tomorrow for £20k and i'll have had 2 years relatively cheap motoring, assuming it doesn't disintegrate tonight.
You missed ff tax and insurance ;-)Tyres: £700
Servicing: £600
MOT: £40
Repairs: (glove box door, brake light, seat: £200
Fuel: 12k miles at 25mpg: £2115
Total 2 year running cost inc. depreciation (estimate); £3650 + 1k p/y depreciation = £5500
Modifications: £1800 (optional spend, wheels redone, some paint, trim bits etc...)
Sell it tomorrow for £20k and i'll have had 2 years relatively cheap motoring, assuming it doesn't disintegrate tonight.
I assume its second hand, so to compare apples with apples what would it be if it was brand new?
matt21 said:
What scary bills could I expect?
Radiators need replaced regularly, there are three and they get damaged by stones and corrosion. Air conditioning radiators can also need replaced along with turbo actuators. Could be £3k on those over a couple of years plus another £3k for brakes, tyres and general services. Crusoe said:
Radiators need replaced regularly, there are three and they get damaged by stones and corrosion. Air conditioning radiators can also need replaced along with turbo actuators. Could be £3k on those over a couple of years plus another £3k for brakes, tyres and general services.
Why are they regular replacement options compared to... say, my shopping car, that's on its first radiator despite being 160k old?Only average quality, low to the ground and poorly shielded (some fit additional grills) and you tend to be going faster hence the greater impact speed of any debris. Leaves and dirt also collect and can't be easily cleaned out which causes the corrosion issues. Known issue and there are some bumper removal and cleaning guides online so it can be a diy job but not a simple one.
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&...
Edit to add some more detail.
Road Tax £505
Insurance probably double the M135i depending on usual details, about £800
Warranty £1000 depending where you go and advisable for most.
Major service about £800-£1000.
Rear Tyres every 4000 to 5000 miles £250 each.
Fronts £185 each (last quite long for road use maybe 15-20,000 miles)
Fuel average around 20mpg. High of 30 and low of 10 depending on use
An Oil change will set you back £200 to £400 depending who does it.
Spark Plug change(not easy to do) £300 to £500 depending where you go
It's expensive when things go wrong. Here is a list of some of the common things that might not be covered by a warranty depending on the wear and tear clauses. Have a look at http://www.design911.co.uk/default.aspx and http://www.porscheshop.co.uk/ to check out the prices some of these items.
Battery...every 3 to 4 years
Rear Discs & Pads corrode very badly, might only last a few years if not driven much and car kept outside.
Front Discs & Pads, same as the rears
Turbos, both of them.
Rads, all 3 of them.
If you buy well you could avoid large amounts of depreciation but they could easily hit you for at £3-4k a year without turning a wheel.
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&...
Edit to add some more detail.
Road Tax £505
Insurance probably double the M135i depending on usual details, about £800
Warranty £1000 depending where you go and advisable for most.
Major service about £800-£1000.
Rear Tyres every 4000 to 5000 miles £250 each.
Fronts £185 each (last quite long for road use maybe 15-20,000 miles)
Fuel average around 20mpg. High of 30 and low of 10 depending on use
An Oil change will set you back £200 to £400 depending who does it.
Spark Plug change(not easy to do) £300 to £500 depending where you go
It's expensive when things go wrong. Here is a list of some of the common things that might not be covered by a warranty depending on the wear and tear clauses. Have a look at http://www.design911.co.uk/default.aspx and http://www.porscheshop.co.uk/ to check out the prices some of these items.
Battery...every 3 to 4 years
Rear Discs & Pads corrode very badly, might only last a few years if not driven much and car kept outside.
Front Discs & Pads, same as the rears
Turbos, both of them.
Rads, all 3 of them.
If you buy well you could avoid large amounts of depreciation but they could easily hit you for at £3-4k a year without turning a wheel.
Edited by Crusoe on Tuesday 26th May 12:31
chrispmartha said:
16plates said:
ALOT less than 11k!
Tyres: £700
Servicing: £600
MOT: £40
Repairs: (glove box door, brake light, seat: £200
Fuel: 12k miles at 25mpg: £2115
Total 2 year running cost inc. depreciation (estimate); £3650 + 1k p/y depreciation = £5500
Modifications: £1800 (optional spend, wheels redone, some paint, trim bits etc...)
Sell it tomorrow for £20k and i'll have had 2 years relatively cheap motoring, assuming it doesn't disintegrate tonight.
You missed ff tax and insurance ;-)Tyres: £700
Servicing: £600
MOT: £40
Repairs: (glove box door, brake light, seat: £200
Fuel: 12k miles at 25mpg: £2115
Total 2 year running cost inc. depreciation (estimate); £3650 + 1k p/y depreciation = £5500
Modifications: £1800 (optional spend, wheels redone, some paint, trim bits etc...)
Sell it tomorrow for £20k and i'll have had 2 years relatively cheap motoring, assuming it doesn't disintegrate tonight.
I assume its second hand, so to compare apples with apples what would it be if it was brand new?
It was you who made the comparison. At the end of the day, running a second hand RS4 will cost me less than 11k over 2 years.
Fair enough he has a car allowance and it must be a <3 year old car, so we can't compare mine to his but personally... no angle we approach this will make me see value for money in paying 11k to rent a 1 series bmw for 2 years.
997 Turbo, GTR, C63 AMG, RS4, RS6, I could be won over!
16plates said:
Add 2k for 2 years tax and insurance.
It was you who made the comparison. At the end of the day, running a second hand RS4 will cost me less than 11k over 2 years.
Fair enough he has a car allowance and it must be a <3 year old car, so we can't compare mine to his but personally... no angle we approach this will make me see value for money in paying 11k to rent a 1 series bmw for 2 years.
997 Turbo, GTR, C63 AMG, RS4, RS6, I could be won over!
I'm not sure it is value for money, that depends on how you look at things, but thats how much it costs to run a brand new 320bhp 'premium' car, sure, he could maybe have got a better deal but not much better for 10k per annum including tyres maintenance and insurance.It was you who made the comparison. At the end of the day, running a second hand RS4 will cost me less than 11k over 2 years.
Fair enough he has a car allowance and it must be a <3 year old car, so we can't compare mine to his but personally... no angle we approach this will make me see value for money in paying 11k to rent a 1 series bmw for 2 years.
997 Turbo, GTR, C63 AMG, RS4, RS6, I could be won over!
chrispmartha said:
16plates said:
Add 2k for 2 years tax and insurance.
It was you who made the comparison. At the end of the day, running a second hand RS4 will cost me less than 11k over 2 years.
Fair enough he has a car allowance and it must be a <3 year old car, so we can't compare mine to his but personally... no angle we approach this will make me see value for money in paying 11k to rent a 1 series bmw for 2 years.
997 Turbo, GTR, C63 AMG, RS4, RS6, I could be won over!
I'm not sure it is value for money, that depends on how you look at things, but thats how much it costs to run a brand new 320bhp 'premium' car, sure, he could maybe have got a better deal but not much better for 10k per annum including tyres maintenance and insurance.It was you who made the comparison. At the end of the day, running a second hand RS4 will cost me less than 11k over 2 years.
Fair enough he has a car allowance and it must be a <3 year old car, so we can't compare mine to his but personally... no angle we approach this will make me see value for money in paying 11k to rent a 1 series bmw for 2 years.
997 Turbo, GTR, C63 AMG, RS4, RS6, I could be won over!
Just to clear a few things up.
The car bought from a main BMW dealer in 2013 which has appreciated substantially is a low mileage M3 CSL. Yes you could argue I won't get £50000 but that's what it is insured for and that's same price as others for sale with more miles
Secondly generally speaking people take a company car where I work. They pay about £200 per month in BIK for a low spec 320d Sport in budget. That did not interest me, hence taking the cash and buying using the money after tax to take a lease. The £200 extra per month more than pays for the other running costs.
The lease was as cheap as it gets. £300 per month on a 3+23 lease. Hundreds got one. I went a little mad with options because I wanted to and in my budget. It may be more than an older A4 but I'm happy and it's good value to me, and less than 2 years of deprecation if bought outright. Again I could have kept longer but I like to change.
I acknowledge £11000 all in was a fair amount of cash but affordable. Hence why I ask If I could get a 997 Turbo for a similar total cost of ownership
£55000 would be a privately funded so no worries of high interest rates. I think the 997 Turbo is near the bottom of it's depreciation curve so hoping this won't bite too much, but i could be wrong
Happy to pay a little more from dealer for peace of mind including 2 year warranty.
Thanks for advice on radiators. Those things worry me if not covered by warranty. Food for thought!
The car bought from a main BMW dealer in 2013 which has appreciated substantially is a low mileage M3 CSL. Yes you could argue I won't get £50000 but that's what it is insured for and that's same price as others for sale with more miles
Secondly generally speaking people take a company car where I work. They pay about £200 per month in BIK for a low spec 320d Sport in budget. That did not interest me, hence taking the cash and buying using the money after tax to take a lease. The £200 extra per month more than pays for the other running costs.
The lease was as cheap as it gets. £300 per month on a 3+23 lease. Hundreds got one. I went a little mad with options because I wanted to and in my budget. It may be more than an older A4 but I'm happy and it's good value to me, and less than 2 years of deprecation if bought outright. Again I could have kept longer but I like to change.
I acknowledge £11000 all in was a fair amount of cash but affordable. Hence why I ask If I could get a 997 Turbo for a similar total cost of ownership
£55000 would be a privately funded so no worries of high interest rates. I think the 997 Turbo is near the bottom of it's depreciation curve so hoping this won't bite too much, but i could be wrong
Happy to pay a little more from dealer for peace of mind including 2 year warranty.
Thanks for advice on radiators. Those things worry me if not covered by warranty. Food for thought!
Just go in with your eyes open and do some research.
Tyres will last longer than 5000 miles if you go for something like Supersports instead of Cups. Mine have done around 28,000 km and they are still well above the limits and I have done trackdays with them.
Check the lower suspension arms for squeeking as they don't last too long. I have had to replace my fronts and the rears will be done soon. I have the warrenty because the potential bills are quite scary if something does go pop. So far it has been worth it as I have had rattles and a few bits and bobs done. Check to see if the clutch slips as it is a big job as well as checking if the major service as been done as the spark plugs are not easy accessible and requires a few hours work.
MPG is not bad and a tank can run to 550km but drop to around 300km if you are really driving fast.
In short, go have a look at a few have a test drive as they are not for everyone.
Tyres will last longer than 5000 miles if you go for something like Supersports instead of Cups. Mine have done around 28,000 km and they are still well above the limits and I have done trackdays with them.
Check the lower suspension arms for squeeking as they don't last too long. I have had to replace my fronts and the rears will be done soon. I have the warrenty because the potential bills are quite scary if something does go pop. So far it has been worth it as I have had rattles and a few bits and bobs done. Check to see if the clutch slips as it is a big job as well as checking if the major service as been done as the spark plugs are not easy accessible and requires a few hours work.
MPG is not bad and a tank can run to 550km but drop to around 300km if you are really driving fast.
In short, go have a look at a few have a test drive as they are not for everyone.
I had a 07 plate generation 1 997 turbo as a daily driver for over 3 years (bought in Dec 10 at 13k miles and sold in Feb 14 at almost 60k miles). Always had a OPC warranty on it, no really big bills but plenty of services which resulted in minor(ish) issue and £2k+ bills. Using it everyday I found it very prone to punctures in the rear tyres. Probably had 5 breakdowns over the time I had it. Getting the warranty renewed was a pain and I kept having issues with Porsche saying there was an overrev recorded and thus I needed to spent £ on having the engine removed and checked before they'd issue a new warranty. Was comfy enough for long distance regular use but defo less comfy than a performance saloon.
All that said it was a truly amazing car which was great to drive in all conditions. OP - go buy one.
All that said it was a truly amazing car which was great to drive in all conditions. OP - go buy one.
matt21 said:
I think the 997 Turbo is near the bottom of it's depreciation curve so hoping this won't bite too much, but i could be wrong
The 996 dipped to about £20k. True, it was never as popular looks-wise as others generations, but I think there's still quite a bit to go. Is there a limited supply of 997 Turbos?M135IBOSS said:
you're going to be replacing a car described by top gear as the 'junior supercar' for a normal sports car. The only way to progress after the Beemer is to move onto the supercars such as the 458 italia.
AhahahahaNo bias at all I'm sure there Mr. M135IBOSS
Logical progression from "junior supercar" to £150k+ real supercar, yeah ok then.
matt21 said:
I think the key is depreciation. If it is close to r at bottom of curve it makes senE, if it has £20k drop to go it doesn't!
Exactly. Unfortunately no one knows the answer to how close to the bottom they are. How about a Gen 2 3.8? 09 plates don't seem to have moved for 2 years and it will still be a massive step up from your 1 series.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff