Why is driving uninsured such a big deal?
Discussion
walm said:
Ah. Sorry, my mistake.
No, my failure to clarify. Yours was probably the obvious interpretation.walm said:
(Nevertheless book value isn't a particularly good measure of the "value" in most industries. In the case of a winding up that EUR16bn of goodwill will go to zero for example - among many other issues!)
Sure. But, for the point I was making to the ignorant numpty who can't see beyond "Oooh! Five BILLION EUROS!", it's as near as anything this side of a lump of 2x4 is going to be.r11co said:
I used to know someone who did indeed indemnify himself, but it wasn't this way. He was the son of a wealthy family (in the cheese business I kid you not) who wanted to drive an Aston while still in his late teens.
Rather than pay a mahoosive premium that was surrendered regardless of a claim, he lodged a large sum of cash (equivalent to the retail value of the car IIRC) with the insurance company on the basis that he got the whole lot back at the end of the year if no claims were made against him, or he surrendered the lot otherwise.
I always imagined the insurers had pedestrians stationed on street corners ready to jump out in front of him...!
I also suspect that those sorts of deals are no longer available as I think the scheme worked for the insurers on the back of interest rates being much higher at the time. This was 25 years ago!
So, basically, the "premium" was the interest on his excess...Rather than pay a mahoosive premium that was surrendered regardless of a claim, he lodged a large sum of cash (equivalent to the retail value of the car IIRC) with the insurance company on the basis that he got the whole lot back at the end of the year if no claims were made against him, or he surrendered the lot otherwise.
I always imagined the insurers had pedestrians stationed on street corners ready to jump out in front of him...!
I also suspect that those sorts of deals are no longer available as I think the scheme worked for the insurers on the back of interest rates being much higher at the time. This was 25 years ago!
MadDog1962 said:
I've just come back from two and a half years in Texas. You cannot register your car without proof of insurance. (Although there are indeed people driving around illegally in unregistered and uninsured vehicles, it is an offence). I think you'll probably find all states have similar rules on this.
I don't know about other states but in California we could self-insure by lodging a bond http://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/pubs/broch...This is not the cheap option...
swerni said:
TooMany2cvs said:
r11co said:
I used to know someone who did indeed indemnify himself, but it wasn't this way. He was the son of a wealthy family (in the cheese business I kid you not) who wanted to drive an Aston while still in his late teens.
Rather than pay a mahoosive premium that was surrendered regardless of a claim, he lodged a large sum of cash (equivalent to the retail value of the car IIRC) with the insurance company on the basis that he got the whole lot back at the end of the year if no claims were made against him, or he surrendered the lot otherwise.
I always imagined the insurers had pedestrians stationed on street corners ready to jump out in front of him...!
I also suspect that those sorts of deals are no longer available as I think the scheme worked for the insurers on the back of interest rates being much higher at the time. This was 25 years ago!
So, basically, the "premium" was the interest on his excess...Rather than pay a mahoosive premium that was surrendered regardless of a claim, he lodged a large sum of cash (equivalent to the retail value of the car IIRC) with the insurance company on the basis that he got the whole lot back at the end of the year if no claims were made against him, or he surrendered the lot otherwise.
I always imagined the insurers had pedestrians stationed on street corners ready to jump out in front of him...!
I also suspect that those sorts of deals are no longer available as I think the scheme worked for the insurers on the back of interest rates being much higher at the time. This was 25 years ago!
This didn't really happen, did it ?
25 years ago insurance was very expensive if you wanted anything fast, let alone as a teenager.
TooMany2cvs said:
r11co said:
I used to know someone who did indeed indemnify himself, but it wasn't this way. He was the son of a wealthy family (in the cheese business I kid you not) who wanted to drive an Aston while still in his late teens.
Rather than pay a mahoosive premium that was surrendered regardless of a claim, he lodged a large sum of cash (equivalent to the retail value of the car IIRC) with the insurance company on the basis that he got the whole lot back at the end of the year if no claims were made against him, or he surrendered the lot otherwise.
I always imagined the insurers had pedestrians stationed on street corners ready to jump out in front of him...!
I also suspect that those sorts of deals are no longer available as I think the scheme worked for the insurers on the back of interest rates being much higher at the time. This was 25 years ago!
So, basically, the "premium" was the interest on his excess...Rather than pay a mahoosive premium that was surrendered regardless of a claim, he lodged a large sum of cash (equivalent to the retail value of the car IIRC) with the insurance company on the basis that he got the whole lot back at the end of the year if no claims were made against him, or he surrendered the lot otherwise.
I always imagined the insurers had pedestrians stationed on street corners ready to jump out in front of him...!
I also suspect that those sorts of deals are no longer available as I think the scheme worked for the insurers on the back of interest rates being much higher at the time. This was 25 years ago!
If this was a few years ago, say interest rates were 6% and he had to deposit £500,000, his effective premium was £30k pa.
He should sue them for mis-selling!
FraMac said:
Not sure if it's still the case, however up until around 15 years ago London Ambulance Service used to self-insure, so no cover in place.
It would be interesting to know if what they saved in premiums would have outweighed what they paid in claims and legalexpenses.
The vast majority of fleets (bus/coach/DHL/etc) in the UK will lodge a bond with The High Court and self insure up to a certain amount. After say £10k/£25k/|£50k an insurer will normally kick in.It would be interesting to know if what they saved in premiums would have outweighed what they paid in claims and legalexpenses.
bigfatnick said:
Condi said:
MJK 24 said:
I've just spent a few months in NZ. You're correct in saying that there's no legal requirement for third party insurance cover. However, should you have an accident that is deemed to be your fault, and you don't have insurance, the third parties insurers will take you to court to recover their losses. This can lead to people being forced by the courts to sell assets - ie their home!
Thats not true. Your road licence contains a 3rd party insurance cost, which covers personal injury for anyone you hit. You need that by law. Any damage to other vehicles/property can be reclaimed from the at fault party - which, as you say, can lead to many thousand dollar claims. Imagine how cheap our insurance would be without whiplash claims!
I'm still also unclear on how the non-fault party gets compensated for their financial losses, in the event that the at-fault party does not have 3rd party liability insurance and has no assets that can be seized and sold.
Exactly how does it work? It sounds like if you get hit by some scummer you just kiss goodbye to everything you've worked for because that tosser will never pay you back regardless what a court decides they ought to do.
If someone has no money and no potential to earn it fast, no amount of court orders to pay up will actually get the cash back in the plaintiff's bank account where it belongs rapidly.
jamieduff1981 said:
I've got to say it sounds slow.
I'm still also unclear on how the non-fault party gets compensated for their financial losses, in the event that the at-fault party does not have 3rd party liability insurance and has no assets that can be seized and sold.
Exactly how does it work? It sounds like if you get hit by some scummer you just kiss goodbye to everything you've worked for because that tosser will never pay you back regardless what a court decides they ought to do.
If someone has no money and no potential to earn it fast, no amount of court orders to pay up will actually get the cash back in the plaintiff's bank account where it belongs rapidly.
Personal injury are reclaimed from the government, money which is collected through car tax (basically).I'm still also unclear on how the non-fault party gets compensated for their financial losses, in the event that the at-fault party does not have 3rd party liability insurance and has no assets that can be seized and sold.
Exactly how does it work? It sounds like if you get hit by some scummer you just kiss goodbye to everything you've worked for because that tosser will never pay you back regardless what a court decides they ought to do.
If someone has no money and no potential to earn it fast, no amount of court orders to pay up will actually get the cash back in the plaintiff's bank account where it belongs rapidly.
If the guilty party has 3rd party/fully comp insurance you can claim off that.
If not, then you can get a court order requiring them to repay.
In which case, your insurance company will pay out and recover the costs.
If neither person has 3rd party or fully comp, then you can chase but no guarantee of reclaiming costs.
In reality, a large percentage of the population do have insurance, but for those running low value cars you dont really bother.
Condi said:
Personal injury are reclaimed from the government, money which is collected through car tax (basically).
If the guilty party has 3rd party/fully comp insurance you can claim off that.
If not, then you can get a court order requiring them to repay.
In which case, your insurance company will pay out and recover the costs.
If neither person has 3rd party or fully comp, then you can chase but no guarantee of reclaiming costs.
In reality, a large percentage of the population do have insurance, but for those running low value cars you dont really bother.
Actually there was an EU directive some years ago (not sure if late 80s or early 90s) making property damage compulsory as well injury (there is a nominal excess, £175 IIRC) so you can claim from the Motor Insurers Bureau just like you always could for an injury.If the guilty party has 3rd party/fully comp insurance you can claim off that.
If not, then you can get a court order requiring them to repay.
In which case, your insurance company will pay out and recover the costs.
If neither person has 3rd party or fully comp, then you can chase but no guarantee of reclaiming costs.
In reality, a large percentage of the population do have insurance, but for those running low value cars you dont really bother.
As that organisation is funded by the insurance industry in proportion to their share of the market (not road tax) in effect we all pay for the mindless t***s that don't bother to get insurance. Still at least they get their cars confiscated nowadays when the BIB are having a blitz!
Not sure about the current situation regarding self-insurance but I know the Met police used to do that - so did the old London Transport.
BTW the situation someone described where large corporations pay the first £25K/£50K isn't self-insurance, it's just a big excess (sometimes described as a deductible in the industry).
In my last insurance claims job I was dealing with Commercial Property claims and we had clients who would fund the first $100 Million of any one claim through a Captive insurer! (Not surprisingly they were global multi-nationals).
Edited by Mr Tidy on Friday 29th May 22:03
bigfatnick said:
I was talking to a bloke who ran a kayaking tours place in nz a few years ago and although I can't remember the full story, the basics are that they don't have no win no fee ambulance chaser types and if you have an accident worthy of a claim, you have to go to their version of the HSE, who will fine the company/individual. This keeps it all a lot more sensible than our situation.
Imagine how cheap our insurance would be without whiplash claims!
You're on the right track. See http://www.acc.co.nz/Imagine how cheap our insurance would be without whiplash claims!
The Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC) provides comprehensive, no-fault personal injury cover for all New Zealand residents and visitors to New Zealand.
oh dear , oh dear , i'm in tears reading the ops replies on other forums , the responses are well worth reading
the making of a legendary thread this
after getting banned on ph ,
from Peugeot owners club
FlynnFlynn said:
"pistonheads"
What is it with that ****ing bulls
t arse website!? I got banned from there by posting the following in the "General Gassing" forum:
The amount of abuse and accusations of being a troll for this thread was un-fricken-believable. From their reaction you would have thought half of these ***** were insurance agents.
The only thing that makes me want to register an account on there is because of the traffic and because the forums are free to browse without having an account which makes me wanted to dip in to post something. And it seems strange considering how disproportionate their moderation of members is that the forums wouldn't require you to have an account to browse.
I can only hope that the forums die a slow and miserable death and the moderators have no one left to moderate. Anyone else have experience of those stty forums?
It is a shame there is not a more reasonable car website that has similar amounts of user traffic.
What is it with that ****ing bulls
t arse website!? I got banned from there by posting the following in the "General Gassing" forum:The amount of abuse and accusations of being a troll for this thread was un-fricken-believable. From their reaction you would have thought half of these ***** were insurance agents.
The only thing that makes me want to register an account on there is because of the traffic and because the forums are free to browse without having an account which makes me wanted to dip in to post something. And it seems strange considering how disproportionate their moderation of members is that the forums wouldn't require you to have an account to browse.
I can only hope that the forums die a slow and miserable death and the moderators have no one left to moderate. Anyone else have experience of those s
tty forums?It is a shame there is not a more reasonable car website that has similar amounts of user traffic.
Peugeot 306 member said:
You are trolling though and advocating no insurance is plain stupid.
Does it not make you wonder why you get banned from so many different forums, what is the common factor?
peugeot306 mod said:
I have not enough digits to count how many time Flynn has been banned on this forum.
We haven't banned anyone for absolutely ages, unless they got caught as a spammer.
We had to use a random generator to chose who got to do it
It's only a 7 day time out to cool off a bit. Flynn's generally harmless, but as you can see the wheels come off every so often.
from tyresmoke forumWe haven't banned anyone for absolutely ages, unless they got caught as a spammer.
We had to use a random generator to chose who got to do it
It's only a 7 day time out to cool off a bit. Flynn's generally harmless, but as you can see the wheels come off every so often.
FlynnFlynn said:
I want to kick the **** out of the insurance people. I've been phoning around and I did an confused.com quote but with false details so the ****ers wouldn't harrass me then I phoned up LV and gave them the ref number but told them to change the ****ing details cause I said they were false and then they went all spaz on me and said they can't quote me and they won't quote me because I've given false details etc etc and I could be a conman etc so she asked her manager and he said no then I said her manager is a d
head and said goodbye. Of course I'm gonna call up later and they won't know it is me again haha! But it's stupid none the less.By the way I haven't declared mods or crashes or anything!;) Take that you insurance ****S! Getting my own back the only way I can! I'll have the last laugh that way you see! Haha!
tyresmoke doodles said:
It's gone up because you're a ****.
And before you have another rant about wiping your cock on the curtains or whatever you wanted to do in the other thread, think about it. You are the exact reason why your insurance goes up. Young driver, barrying up his car,
undeclared crashes, blabbering on about overtaking moves etc. Grow up.
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