Is the 911 still the sports car King?

[Benbay001]

Did you ask us a question and then tell us the answer? Thats how you are coming across, OP.

[Dracoro]

Benbay001 said:

Did you ask us a question and then tell us the answer? Thats how you are coming across, OP.

And he has simply "suggested" pretty much the exact same cars in the latest EVO group test.........

[white_goodman]

loose cannon said:

996 gt3 all the times are on the Nurburgring website
The fact remains a well driven modern hot hatch will not be trounced by a well driven 911
There was no statement on particular model 911
On the road you'd be spending more time rubbing Kurbs and cats eyes than pushing on in a new 911

I see the wolves are out! With regards to the lap times, I don't necessarily think that it would be any easier to extract that lap time from the Renault than the Porsche. On the road, you have a point, the more compact dimensions of a powerful hot hatch will help you make good progress on narrow roads but the Porsche (even a standard Carrera) does still have more power and torque than most hot hatches.

I always find the arguments about what's quicker cross country a bit irrelevant anyway because in reality, can you really drive with that level of commitment on the road? On the contrary, the answer to which is best is by no means foregone. Ten years ago, if you had asked me what car would you realistically like to own one day, I would have probably said a 911. Now, I'm not so sure I wouldn't buy one of the other cars in the OP instead but they have only really challenged the 911's dominance in these last 10 years. In addition, if I was in the market for a new 911, I would hardly buy a Golf R because I'm clearly looking for something a bit more "special" than a Golf, even if it is a very fast one.

Yes, many of those cars were in the Evo comparison but I'm not sure if they picked the right model (the Turbo) for comparison. Perhaps a Carrera S or GT3 might have been a more appropriate comparison? I would have liked to have seen how the F-Type and R8 faired in the mix too though (although I understand that the R8 is currently in between models). That's just the opinion of one (small) group of motoring journalists though. For the record, they rated all but the i8 above the 911.

I would be interested to garner the opinion of others on PH, especially those that have driven the new 911 and some of the other cars mentioned. Only one person (thanks Paddy n Murphy) has expressed an opinion on the original question, although as a 911 owner he admits that he may be a bit biased. Valid reasons given though to back up his opinion.

[MrBarry123]

Great question OP.

For me, I would take a 911 over any of the alternatives you list - the Porsche is a truly aspirational car. On the M4 last week I passed a 63-plate "bogo" Carrera in a dark green with what I think was the sports exhaust (4 circular tips instead of the 2 elongated ones?) however other than that, no additions externally; it looked fantastic - such a classy car.

However... Given how good the hot-hatch fleet is now, I'm convinced the majority of them would keep up with, if not outperform, a Carrera. That's not to say any hot-hatch is as wonderful as the Porsche though.

Off to AutoTrader I go...

Edited by MrBarry123 on Wednesday 27th May 22:02

[loose cannon]

Wolves my dad supported them sorry was a bit harsh but yes a megane is no Porsche 911 just pulling you up a bit

[white_goodman]

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

if anything mine is even 'more of a Venn diagram compromise'.
The Marmite Targa.

oh and a 4wd 911 to boot !
Sacrilege !

I used to love my MX5 - get it back soon and hope to love it again - driving it 95% as a DD, and roof down 95% of those times.
I wanted / needed more of a 'Car' I could romp up to Glasgow - across to Manchester, take some luggage, and yet give the beans.

A 911 Conv would on paper be a good solution, yet with a little one incoming - and whilst the rear seats are a little on the comedy is in a Coupe, the Convertible ones are just silly. Plus the Hard tops are fugly, and whilst I was used to being mocked as a hairdresser, a rich gay hairdresser in a 911 was pushing my limits ........ and lets be honest 'bigger' or four seater Convertibles suffer from dreadful buffeting.
Anyway - the Targa. Light, Airey. roof slides on the hoof, Coupe rear seats, and the super useful hatch.

I do remember just after picking my 911 up, hitting the country roads I had been used to thrashing my MX5 around and I think even posted on PH how I just did not find the 911 when I got it as 'fast' or I couldn't 'peddle' it like my trusty steed of 15 years. All over the place. Missed the snickety snick gear change etc

But - As someone above said / says : they take time. The point and squirt novelty of the extra oomph of the 911 was obviously there, but it took time to really gel with it and be able to really crack on.

I remember reading years and years ago an article in what was then 'Car' magazine - and it timed with my Dad getting a new company car. Me being a lad thought the obvious progression from his Rover SD1 was obviously a Lancia Integrale , but the article was I recall 'the fastest A to B car on UK Roads' it had a FWD Lotus Elan, the Integrale, and the 911. (guessing a 993 ?)

Lap times, and all that jazz are not really what it is for me in the 911. There are better cars out there for any of its particular attributes but for many many years, a relatively subtle, relatively useful, and relatively swift car has not been found to better the 911 as a DD - again. IMHO.

Thanks. I think that has given me some insight. Nice car. I hadn't't actually realised that they made a 997 Targa! I think maybe I possibly understand why the motoring press have been a bit lukewarm towards the new 911 now though. Two words. Instant gratification! There is a new generation of affluent younger buyers who want a 911. After all, it's an iconic car and the benchmark in its sector. However, it is very unlikely that they will have driven a rear-engined car before, let alone a 911. Now, with most if not all of the alternatives listed, you can probably get in and drive them pretty fast indeed down a twisty road, as easily as you could a Golf R or fast Audi for instance. Now previously, if you did it in a 911, you might find that you go in to a corner too hot and it understeers, so you back off and the tail swings out and it tries to kill you! That didn't happen in the R8/GTR/Vantage you think. So guess what? You don't buy the 911. Now, the main criticisms seem to centre around the lack of feel in the steering and it not having some of the traditional 911 feel i.e. the feeling of the weight being concentrated at the rear and the light, bobbing front end. Objectively, the Porsche engineers have done a great job. It's faster and more competent than ever before (and faster around the Nurburgring) and you can get in and drive it with the level of commitment that you can the others without having any nasty moments or crashing but subjectively for those who love 911s, it has lost some of that feel that makes it so appealing. If you have never driven a 911 before and are used to an Audi-like driving experience i.e. no steering feel but you can get around most corners at most speeds without crashing then that doesn't bother you.

Do you want a car that feels fast and viceless out of the box or one where it takes time to gel with and get the best out of? That's the question? I can see both viewpoints but I imagine I may get bored with the first car relatively quickly and the second car might have more long-term appeal/reward. As for Nurburgring lap times, I don't have a problem with manufacturers developing handling/chassis setup on the Nurburgring but I do have problem with people hinging what car is faster/better on lap times rather than how the car feels/makes you feel/how much fun it is. I don't really care that a stripped-out Megane is a few tenths of a second quicker if to achieve that I am going to have to drive on the verge of having a very big accident (frightening rather than fun).

[V8RX7]

white_goodman said:

Not driven one yet ....

and is probably the car that I have promised myself one day for the longest time.

Try one.

I always wanted one, read all about them and then bought one (an older air cooled one) and was bitterly disappointed.

I later bought an FD RX7 and absolutely love it.

[white_goodman]

V8RX7 said:

Try one.

I always wanted one, read all about them and then bought one (an older air cooled one) and was bitterly disappointed.

I later bought an FD RX7 and absolutely love it.

If I never get to own a 911, I would be pretty happy with an FD RX7 to be fair. Loving your garage by the way. I would be ecstatic with that group of cars and none of them were super expensive I bet.

[unpc]

My last and only 911 was a 964 C2 and I've not had any desire for another since. The rot set in with the 993 IMO with its fat ass.

5 years ago there wasn't a lot of competition for the 911. Now there's loads. I have driven the i8 though and I'd argue that it's not the future. Left me stone cold. I'll have an F-Type coupe please.

[white_goodman]

unpc said:

My last and only 911 was a 964 C2 and I've not had any desire for another since. The rot set in with the 993 IMO with its fat ass.

5 years ago there wasn't a lot of competition for the 911. Now there's loads. I have driven the i8 though and I'd argue that it's not the future. Left me stone cold. I'll have an F-Type coupe please.

Yes. The i8 impresses from an engineering point of view but I don't know if I could drop 100k on one with its 3 cylinder engine. A V8V or V8/V6 Supercharged F-Type seems far more visceral to me!

I actually quite like the rear view of the 993. It has that classic 911 look about it. The rear of the 996/997 looks crap and I quite like the rear of the 991 with those new lights but the front and side profile just look wrong!

Classic



964



993

[e8_pack]

white_goodman said:

Stuff...

New 911s don't have a light front end that bobs about or a weighty rear. They feel quite well balanced and planted. PSM and other clever gadgetry made them far more drivable than you give them credit for, though for higher powered applications you need to remap the traction control as it can be very intrusive.

[V8RX7]

white_goodman said:

V8RX7 said:

Try one.

I always wanted one, read all about them and then bought one (an older air cooled one) and was bitterly disappointed.

I later bought an FD RX7 and absolutely love it.

If I never get to own a 911, I would be pretty happy with an FD RX7 to be fair. Loving your garage by the way. I would be ecstatic with that group of cars and none of them were super expensive I bet.

Thanks. I rarely spend over £5k, there are just so many good cars that cost less than that.