RE: Cosworth GT86: Driven
Discussion
Conscript said:
jonah35 said:
£15k used plus £4k so £19k all in.
Boxster s
Cayman s
M5
M6
Elise
The list is endless and a Toyota with 260bhp would be down the list
In what way are the M5 and M6 suitable alternatives?Boxster s
Cayman s
M5
M6
Elise
The list is endless and a Toyota with 260bhp would be down the list
JB! said:
davyvee said:
JB! said:
This is the problem I have, so many much nicer alternatives out there..
86 is more fun than Boxster/Cayman imho and more useable than an Elise. Plus a 5 year warranty is rather nice.jamespink said:
Conscript said:
jonah35 said:
£15k used plus £4k so £19k all in.
Boxster s
Cayman s
M5
M6
Elise
The list is endless and a Toyota with 260bhp would be down the list
In what way are the M5 and M6 suitable alternatives?Boxster s
Cayman s
M5
M6
Elise
The list is endless and a Toyota with 260bhp would be down the list
vz-r_dave said:
JB! said:
davyvee said:
JB! said:
This is the problem I have, so many much nicer alternatives out there..
86 is more fun than Boxster/Cayman imho and more useable than an Elise. Plus a 5 year warranty is rather nice.I can compare it because A: Its similar money, and B, its of interest to me? I want something cool for the weekends, and an E39 is on the radar.
Its not a 1200kg car, but neither is it 200bhp...
JB! said:
vz-r_dave said:
JB! said:
davyvee said:
JB! said:
This is the problem I have, so many much nicer alternatives out there..
86 is more fun than Boxster/Cayman imho and more useable than an Elise. Plus a 5 year warranty is rather nice.I can compare it because A: Its similar money, and B, its of interest to me? I want something cool for the weekends, and an E39 is on the radar.
Its not a 1200kg car, but neither is it 200bhp...
I am not questioning your choice, it's a great car but seriously it can not be seen as an alternative to the 86. It's not in the same segment for a start.
vz-r_dave said:
JB! said:
vz-r_dave said:
JB! said:
davyvee said:
JB! said:
This is the problem I have, so many much nicer alternatives out there..
86 is more fun than Boxster/Cayman imho and more useable than an Elise. Plus a 5 year warranty is rather nice.I can compare it because A: Its similar money, and B, its of interest to me? I want something cool for the weekends, and an E39 is on the radar.
Its not a 1200kg car, but neither is it 200bhp...
I am not questioning your choice, it's a great car but seriously it can not be seen as an alternative to the 86. It's not in the same segment for a start.
Not enough power is an issue but not the main one IMO. 200 is sufficient for most needs and this kit which takes it up to 260 is even better. However as suggested in the article, what this kit doesn't do is fix the real problem which is the quality of that delivery.
The unit in this car just isn't a "goodun". It's far too course, not keen enough to rev and doesn't sound good either. Now I know it's not easy to make a 4 pot sound good but it can and has been done before. This more than anything makes the car feel anaemic. Rather than just strapping on a supercharger, I'd have preferred it if Cosworth used their engine expertise to try to make this engine more characterful.
Change or tune the head, port and flow it, maybe up the compression, change the manifolds and exhaust headers, give it a decent full system exhaust and drop in a lightened flywheel to make it rev. Change the ECU map to accommodate all these changes and you're good to go. You'd still get a decent increase in power (if not the full 260) but more importantly you'd make the engine sing without adding the complication of a supercharger to the mix. What happened to good old NA tuning anyway? Toyota even have precedent with the Beams engine in the old MR2's which were absolutely fantastic.
Either that or just drop a Honda Vtec unit in it. Imagine how muc better this car would be with the F20C engine from the S2000 in it?
The unit in this car just isn't a "goodun". It's far too course, not keen enough to rev and doesn't sound good either. Now I know it's not easy to make a 4 pot sound good but it can and has been done before. This more than anything makes the car feel anaemic. Rather than just strapping on a supercharger, I'd have preferred it if Cosworth used their engine expertise to try to make this engine more characterful.
Change or tune the head, port and flow it, maybe up the compression, change the manifolds and exhaust headers, give it a decent full system exhaust and drop in a lightened flywheel to make it rev. Change the ECU map to accommodate all these changes and you're good to go. You'd still get a decent increase in power (if not the full 260) but more importantly you'd make the engine sing without adding the complication of a supercharger to the mix. What happened to good old NA tuning anyway? Toyota even have precedent with the Beams engine in the old MR2's which were absolutely fantastic.
Either that or just drop a Honda Vtec unit in it. Imagine how muc better this car would be with the F20C engine from the S2000 in it?
Guvernator said:
Not enough power is an issue but not the main one IMO. 200 is sufficient for most needs and this kit which takes it up to 260 is even better. However as suggested in the article, what this kit doesn't do is fix the real problem which is the quality of that delivery.
The unit in this car just isn't a "goodun". It's far too course, not keen enough to rev and doesn't sound good either. Now I know it's not easy to make a 4 pot sound good but it can and has been done before. This more than anything makes the car feel anaemic. Rather than just strapping on a supercharger, I'd have preferred it if Cosworth used their engine expertise to try to make this engine more characterful.
Change or tune the head, port and flow it, maybe up the compression, change the manifolds and exhaust headers, give it a decent full system exhaust and drop in a lightened flywheel to make it rev. Change the ECU map to accommodate all these changes and you're good to go. You'd still get a decent increase in power (if not the full 260) but more importantly you'd make the engine sing without adding the complication of a supercharger to the mix. What happened to good old NA tuning anyway? Toyota even have precedent with the Beams engine in the old MR2's which were absolutely fantastic.
Either that or just drop a Honda Vtec unit in it. Imagine how muc better this car would be with the F20C engine from the S2000 in it?
I can't help but think it should have been the new 4cyl turbo from the WRX...The unit in this car just isn't a "goodun". It's far too course, not keen enough to rev and doesn't sound good either. Now I know it's not easy to make a 4 pot sound good but it can and has been done before. This more than anything makes the car feel anaemic. Rather than just strapping on a supercharger, I'd have preferred it if Cosworth used their engine expertise to try to make this engine more characterful.
Change or tune the head, port and flow it, maybe up the compression, change the manifolds and exhaust headers, give it a decent full system exhaust and drop in a lightened flywheel to make it rev. Change the ECU map to accommodate all these changes and you're good to go. You'd still get a decent increase in power (if not the full 260) but more importantly you'd make the engine sing without adding the complication of a supercharger to the mix. What happened to good old NA tuning anyway? Toyota even have precedent with the Beams engine in the old MR2's which were absolutely fantastic.
Either that or just drop a Honda Vtec unit in it. Imagine how muc better this car would be with the F20C engine from the S2000 in it?
JB! said:
I can't help but think it should have been the new 4cyl turbo from the WRX...
Hmm not sure if I agree precisely. I think a turbocharger would change the character of this car too much and turn it into something else. I'd just have preferred it if they dropped a better NA unit into it or just tuned the one they already have to make it a bit better.I do agree though that there probably is room for a hotter turbo'd STI version above the base car for those power fiends.
Guvernator said:
Change or tune the head, port and flow it, maybe up the compression, change the manifolds and exhaust headers, give it a decent full system exhaust and drop in a lightened flywheel to make it rev. Change the ECU map to accommodate all these changes and you're good to go. You'd still get a decent increase in power (if not the full 260) but more importantly you'd make the engine sing without adding the complication of a supercharger to the mix. What happened to good old NA tuning anyway? Toyota even have precedent with the Beams engine in the old MR2's which were absolutely fantastic.
They're part of the way there with the Stage 1.3 mentioned (+ separate piece last summer). 230 horses. Would probably be my preference out of the various options.chrispj said:
They're part of the way there with the Stage 1.3 mentioned (+ separate piece last summer). 230 horses. Would probably be my preference out of the various options.
Yep I agree, I much prefer the Stage 1.3 option but they could take it one step further. Stage 1.4 could be some head work, hotter cams, new manifold and a lightened fly wheel. Would probably be close to the 260 supercharger figure but in a much purer form.RoverP6B said:
I just don't understand why everyone thinks the '86 is underpowered. It's pretty light and has 200bhp. It's almost identical in that respect to the E30 M3, and we don't hear people moaning about THAT lacking power...
Read my posts, I don't think the 86 is underpowered, it's just that the engine is crap. The unit in the 86 WISHES it had as much character as the S14 in the E30 M3.I've been tempted to get rid of my E46 330d and S2000 for one of these, but the uninspiring engine was a deal breaker for me. Everything else about the car was great, I didn't even think the interior was that bad. The aftermarket turbo/SC kits are great, but one of my reasons for buying a relatively new car is to have a nice long warranty. Toyota really need to partner up with an aftermarket supplier like Ford do with Mountune, or just make a fast one to start with.
Guvernator said:
Yep I agree, I much prefer the Stage 1.3 option but they could take it one step further. Stage 1.4 could be some head work, hotter cams, new manifold and a lightened fly wheel. Would probably be close to the 260 supercharger figure but in a much purer form.
its about bang for buck as this is a silly flat engine, so any mod work like better heads etc needs you to pull the engine out ,there's a £1000 in labour for most people right therethen heads would be what £1000 each, cams another £500, flywheel £200, calibration £500 so you're over the supercharger budget already for less power and more hassle
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