A modern car that performs / handles as well as a Mitsubishi
Discussion
After 10 years of ownership, I have recently just moved from an EVO 8 FQ-300 to a new F80 M3.
So hopefully semi qualified to comment.
IMHO there is nothing – you are not going to find a modern replacement - perhaps loosely a GTR, unless you buy the same again (which I didn’t want to).
Appreciate the GTR nor F80 are in the ballpark of price you stated.
First things first – my EVO was immense. Living in Scotland, the ability to rapidly dispatch wet, greasy roads, with a little hint of tail out is something to behold.
I will happily say, in the wet and with not too many long straights, with my driving skills (no, the throttle is not an on/off switch for me either), my M3 would not see which way an EVO went.
So, was the f80 a waste? No, not at all, the EVO was quickly turning back into iron and had lost that feel of indestructible reliability. However as a way to go fast and take liberties – it was huge fun.
I’m secretly hoping that the M3 will make me a better driver – and we are only 4 weeks in. Will comment after 10 years once we get to know each other better.
One small point, the M3 does break traction, lights flicker a fair bit. I have thought – ah the EVO never did that… but in fact, it did break traction… it just doesn’t have a light to flash at you – hence why you would largely ignore it.
The new Focus RS is worth a shout, but depends on when it break cover… and it too will be min 30K+ before any ford fan boys get onto them with their re-sale value. What about an E9x M3 (i.e. the 4.0 V8)…
So hopefully semi qualified to comment.
IMHO there is nothing – you are not going to find a modern replacement - perhaps loosely a GTR, unless you buy the same again (which I didn’t want to).
Appreciate the GTR nor F80 are in the ballpark of price you stated.
First things first – my EVO was immense. Living in Scotland, the ability to rapidly dispatch wet, greasy roads, with a little hint of tail out is something to behold.
I will happily say, in the wet and with not too many long straights, with my driving skills (no, the throttle is not an on/off switch for me either), my M3 would not see which way an EVO went.
So, was the f80 a waste? No, not at all, the EVO was quickly turning back into iron and had lost that feel of indestructible reliability. However as a way to go fast and take liberties – it was huge fun.
I’m secretly hoping that the M3 will make me a better driver – and we are only 4 weeks in. Will comment after 10 years once we get to know each other better.
One small point, the M3 does break traction, lights flicker a fair bit. I have thought – ah the EVO never did that… but in fact, it did break traction… it just doesn’t have a light to flash at you – hence why you would largely ignore it.
The new Focus RS is worth a shout, but depends on when it break cover… and it too will be min 30K+ before any ford fan boys get onto them with their re-sale value. What about an E9x M3 (i.e. the 4.0 V8)…
Yeah, its almost making me feel a bit sad, to think that there wont be such another great P2p car such as the evo..
It was so confidence inspiring, it stopped on a dime, it would allow the most ridiculous overtakes due to the almost instant torque available. It had no hinderance devices flashing at you every 2 mins.
The new focus rs will use something similar to haldex from what i can gather.
The E90 m3 appeals for lunacy, as does a cayman s for purity of driving experience. I guess I just want the ability to overtaken when i want within reason, without it feeling unstable. The suspension on my VI -even as standard was so sorted, stiff enough to not be wallowy but soft enough to soak up the nastiest of b roads.. My audi is the polar opposite, jarringly hard yet, no suppleness, too much mechanical grip and little steering feel so when it does break away the dash lights up like a christmas tree which is distracting and dangerous imo.
Its either going to be ix or a x isnt it. Or just have some fun in something completely new.
It was so confidence inspiring, it stopped on a dime, it would allow the most ridiculous overtakes due to the almost instant torque available. It had no hinderance devices flashing at you every 2 mins.
The new focus rs will use something similar to haldex from what i can gather.
The E90 m3 appeals for lunacy, as does a cayman s for purity of driving experience. I guess I just want the ability to overtaken when i want within reason, without it feeling unstable. The suspension on my VI -even as standard was so sorted, stiff enough to not be wallowy but soft enough to soak up the nastiest of b roads.. My audi is the polar opposite, jarringly hard yet, no suppleness, too much mechanical grip and little steering feel so when it does break away the dash lights up like a christmas tree which is distracting and dangerous imo.
Its either going to be ix or a x isnt it. Or just have some fun in something completely new.
The Evos never had indestructible reliability. Mine was pretty terrible for reliability. Worst car I've owned in respect to amount of parts that had to be replaced. And, yes, the rust, even on a 60 reg Evo X, was ridiculous after only 3 years, but it was all underneath and in the subframes and suspension. You need to put these cars up on a ramp to inspect them. Nothing shows on the surface. If you want indestructible, get a Scoob, but make sure it's a 2.0, not the 2.5. 2.5s have the most amazing, almost laughable, habit of blowing up before 40,000 miles!
PorkRind said:
Yeah, its almost making me feel a bit sad, to think that there wont be such another great P2p car such as the evo..
It was so confidence inspiring, it stopped on a dime, it would allow the most ridiculous overtakes due to the almost instant torque available. It had no hinderance devices flashing at you every 2 mins.
The new focus rs will use something similar to haldex from what i can gather.
The E90 m3 appeals for lunacy, as does a cayman s for purity of driving experience. I guess I just want the ability to overtaken when i want within reason, without it feeling unstable. The suspension on my VI -even as standard was so sorted, stiff enough to not be wallowy but soft enough to soak up the nastiest of b roads.. My audi is the polar opposite, jarringly hard yet, no suppleness, too much mechanical grip and little steering feel so when it does break away the dash lights up like a christmas tree which is distracting and dangerous imo.
Its either going to be ix or a x isnt it. Or just have some fun in something completely new.
Having had the X, I'd go for a IX! The X is too normal, too sanitised and the SST gearbox is sIt was so confidence inspiring, it stopped on a dime, it would allow the most ridiculous overtakes due to the almost instant torque available. It had no hinderance devices flashing at you every 2 mins.
The new focus rs will use something similar to haldex from what i can gather.
The E90 m3 appeals for lunacy, as does a cayman s for purity of driving experience. I guess I just want the ability to overtaken when i want within reason, without it feeling unstable. The suspension on my VI -even as standard was so sorted, stiff enough to not be wallowy but soft enough to soak up the nastiest of b roads.. My audi is the polar opposite, jarringly hard yet, no suppleness, too much mechanical grip and little steering feel so when it does break away the dash lights up like a christmas tree which is distracting and dangerous imo.
Its either going to be ix or a x isnt it. Or just have some fun in something completely new.
te as well as being unreliable. It makes every junction you pull out of a lottery. And don't forget, the weight of an SST boxed Evo X is 1675kg. Yes, really! The manual isn't much better but at least is slightly under 1600kg. The only benefit the X brings is it's easier to live with day to day and it has normal service intervals. Still chews up AYC pumps, though. In fact, they're in an even worse position on the X so you're lucky if you get 20-30k before you have to shell out for another one...or a refurb as Mitsi want £2500 for one! Doesn't mean I regret owning it. I always wanted to own at least one EVo and I enjoyed most of the 3 years I had it, but I'm also glad it's gone!The FRS is intriguing. It has a separate clutch in the rear diff for both back wheels so could be able to mimic AYC if Ford do it properly. The only other option is still a rumour. Alfa are replacing the Giulietta with a RWD and 4WD platform in 2017, and there's a 2.4 turbo petrol on the cards with over 300bhp. If done right, we'll have the new Integrale. If done wrong it'll be the new Brera!
Edited by Ali_T on Thursday 28th May 13:45
mgst170 said:
IMHO there is nothing – you are not going to find a modern replacement - perhaps loosely a GTR, unless you buy the same again (which I didn’t want to).
Great write up.I'm hoping to buy a GTR in the future as to me it is what the Evo was... A blue collar hero, supercar performance at a bargain price.
Although, dynamically the GTR isn't even close. They are feel heavy and cumbersome albeit extraordinarily fast.
A friend of mine has a Gallardo, GTR, Exige S and a new Fiesta ST and he's sending me links to advert for Evo's. He has absolutely no need for one but he can't keep away, that speaks volumes.
As somebody who previously owned a couple of handling sorted STI's I went the Supercharged Audi route as it seemed to tick all the family car boxes.
AWD, 300+bhp Petrol Engine, 4 seats, no Lexus-style lights.
Its not what I would call a great handling car, and the fact that Audi will no longer stick a manual box in their higher powered cars, means you always feel a little disconnected.
For me, its not the end of the world, as I only use it for the train station commute and family Taxi.
Also my other car is effectively a lightweight Evo123 and that does everything you want with balance, although its doesn't have AYC, only RS Diffs. But, it does remind me a lot of the Type R Impreza I had, that the previous owner had fettled for the Ring.
AWD, 300+bhp Petrol Engine, 4 seats, no Lexus-style lights.
Its not what I would call a great handling car, and the fact that Audi will no longer stick a manual box in their higher powered cars, means you always feel a little disconnected.
For me, its not the end of the world, as I only use it for the train station commute and family Taxi.
Also my other car is effectively a lightweight Evo123 and that does everything you want with balance, although its doesn't have AYC, only RS Diffs. But, it does remind me a lot of the Type R Impreza I had, that the previous owner had fettled for the Ring.
PorkRind said:
Will an evo x do 27mpg on a run? Does it have silly service intervals?
I have the Evo X 330SST (semi-auto box.)It does 27-28 mpg on a run and is on 10,000 service intervals.
All in all, very civilised when in ‘Normal’ mode.
Then you press the ‘Sport’ button.....
A quick comment on pulling out of junctions - if necessary I use manual. The paddle shift is very quick and in Sport/Manual the car is just raring to go.
Once safely across, I just switch back to Normal/Auto and all is well. 99/100 Auto is sharp enough for me.
Edited by NailedOn on Thursday 28th May 14:27
I guess I'm in a similar situation but don't have the spare cash at the moment to do anything about it! My blobeye WRX was the best car that I have ever had. It felt so quick P2P (although not Evo quick) but the suspension was also taut and yet supple at the same time. I have tried several different sort of cars since, some with similar power but nothing has really comes close. Not much happened below 2000rpm but the power delivery was really exciting and if you dropped it into 3rd, you really did have all the power for overtaking that you could ever really need. I still have massive want for an Evo but the one I have driven (VIII 260) felt very jiggly and was quite easy to stall. Very fast though and I expect very pointy and awesome when you're "on it" but would I like it as much to live with as the Subaru? I'm not sure. I think the answer is probably a newer Evo but perhaps try a Subaru and see what you think. WR1 maybe?
Another car within your budget that has always appealed to me is one of these.
I have driven one (although only about 5m, as it was my bosses and it was blocking in my car) but it felt pretty taut and special. Apparently, the power distribution is rear-biased, so not your usual "safe" understeery Audi. I've always thought of it as a cross between an Evo and an E92 M3 or perhaps part Evo, part muscle car! Very appealing but parts prices might be a bit scary.
Otherwise try something completely different. An M-powered BMW (E46/E92 M3 or E39 M5) might be quite tempting!
Another car within your budget that has always appealed to me is one of these.
I have driven one (although only about 5m, as it was my bosses and it was blocking in my car) but it felt pretty taut and special. Apparently, the power distribution is rear-biased, so not your usual "safe" understeery Audi. I've always thought of it as a cross between an Evo and an E92 M3 or perhaps part Evo, part muscle car! Very appealing but parts prices might be a bit scary.
Otherwise try something completely different. An M-powered BMW (E46/E92 M3 or E39 M5) might be quite tempting!
StottyEvo said:
I'll give you your 20mpg but services cost me £57 for oil and filters or £80 if I take it to my local Evo specialist. They really aren't an issue in reality.
The only hard bit was getting hold of a MIT tool for the rear diff wasnt it? I think my local is Norris Designs.
I have to admit, it was an easy car to work on..
PorkRind said:
StottyEvo said:
I'll give you your 20mpg but services cost me £57 for oil and filters or £80 if I take it to my local Evo specialist. They really aren't an issue in reality.
The only hard bit was getting hold of a MIT tool for the rear diff wasnt it? I think my local is Norris Designs.
I have to admit, it was an easy car to work on..
Very easy car to work on as you'd expect from a car designed to be fixed in a muddy service area on your back lying on a tarpaulin in the rain.
I'm an electrician by trade with basic mechanical knowledge, but in the last eight years of ownership I've done the clutch, transfer box, rear diff, wheel bearings, driveshafts, fuel filler neck, hydraulic tappets, poly bushes, crank pulley / aux belt alongside all the usual service items. The only thing I didn't do was the cam and balance belts as I didn't trust myself so gave it to Antony in Indigo-GT.
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