RE: Ferrari 488 GTB: Time For Tea?
Discussion
edinph said:
I remain unconvinced by the aesthetic of that 3/4 cooling inlet............... but I'm sure the car is sensational.
Me too. I just don't like it compared to the standard 458 which looks far more elegant from the front when compared to both the Speciale and the 488. I do like the rear treatment of the Speciale though, the diffuser and exhaust positioning are spot on to mePunterCam said:
Modern turbo cars sound s
t. They all do, and that's that. This will be one of the better sts.
Gearbox - same(ish). Chassis - same(ish). Power - a fair chunk more. Seeing as power and speed in itself is boring, I can't see this car being anything other than crap. I'm sure the magazines will wk themselves into a fury over how much faster it is (but not as fast as the next model - so really, who cares?) but I just won't care.
If we look back on all the great cars of the last 60 years, do any of us care how fast they were when compared to the previous or next incarnation? Do any of us care how they performed against rivals? Speed is nothing, it just gets lost in history. The sound, the feel, the interaction - these are the things that last, and they're the reasons the 488 will be a forgotten car. Bargain in 20 years.
The F40 being the first 200mph Ferrari production/road car will not get lost in history. It has a turbo and it does not sound st. They all do, and that's that. This will be one of the better sts. Gearbox - same(ish). Chassis - same(ish). Power - a fair chunk more. Seeing as power and speed in itself is boring, I can't see this car being anything other than crap. I'm sure the magazines will w
k themselves into a fury over how much faster it is (but not as fast as the next model - so really, who cares?) but I just won't care. If we look back on all the great cars of the last 60 years, do any of us care how fast they were when compared to the previous or next incarnation? Do any of us care how they performed against rivals? Speed is nothing, it just gets lost in history. The sound, the feel, the interaction - these are the things that last, and they're the reasons the 488 will be a forgotten car. Bargain in 20 years.
t. Technically, it is a "modern" turbo car in comparison to something like a 250GTO i.e. it was made within the last 25 years.Speed is not nothing.
The very strap line of this website (Speed Matters) makes your statement more than a little incongruous...
And that's that.
Another video of it out on track, on full clap this time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYl_2g2dCio
zeDuffMan said:
Another video of it out on track, on full clap this time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYl_2g2dCio
Doesn't sound horrendous in comparison to other turbos, but in comparison to the 458 and 458 speciale it does sound boring and that is a purely subjective things. Some owners will cling on to their naturally aspirated cars for dear life, others will welcome turbos with open arms as its the next new thing and they must therefore have it! Im sure Ferrari won't be able to shift these quick enough out to customers as theres always high demand, I just think true petrol heads will still mourn the loss of the high revving v8 and better sounding engine. It will still be an epic car, it just loses that USP of the noise it has had (in comparison to mclaren) shall be interesting to see if more customers switch to mclaren now that Ferrari are losing the NA sound
(Im sure rambo lambo will be happy)OwenK said:
So much nicer looking than the 458 if nothing else.
I'm open to the idea of turbo Ferrari. 288 is one of my heroes. Interested to see how it pans out.
I think the side vents make it look a bit more interesting from the side, and the rear of the car is a big improvement. Actually the rear lights looks similar to the new Ford GTs.I'm open to the idea of turbo Ferrari. 288 is one of my heroes. Interested to see how it pans out.
mattf93 said:
Doesn't sound horrendous in comparison to other turbos, but in comparison to the 458 and 458 speciale it does sound boring and that is a purely subjective things. Some owners will cling on to their naturally aspirated cars for dear life, others will welcome turbos with open arms as its the next new thing and they must therefore have it! Im sure Ferrari won't be able to shift these quick enough out to customers as theres always high demand, I just think true petrol heads will still mourn the loss of the high revving v8 and better sounding engine.
It will still be an epic car, it just loses that USP of the noise it has had (in comparison to mclaren) shall be interesting to see if more customers switch to mclaren now that Ferrari are losing the NA sound (Im sure rambo lambo will be happy)
Nail on head. Can already see the wave of defection coming to McLaren now the N/a V8 sound USP has gone.It will still be an epic car, it just loses that USP of the noise it has had (in comparison to mclaren) shall be interesting to see if more customers switch to mclaren now that Ferrari are losing the NA sound
(Im sure rambo lambo will be happy)When I was considering 458 speciale v 650S spider the big draw to the Ferrari was the sound.
Having been a Ferrari diehard and just sold my 430 Scuderia I was surprised how the open top McLaren won me over and I honestly never thought I would see that day.
Given what I use this particular car for the roof down motoring advantages of the carbon tubbed McLaren outweighed the track biased benefit of the speciale
If I was looking for an out and out track car then I would of gone for the speciale but on the road in real life conditions the 650s spider was the better choice for me and I don't think I will be alone in that way of thinking.
No doubt 488 order banks will be good but there is a void ( circa 18 mths ) for convertibles until a McLaren 570S spider, Lamborghini Huracan spider and 488 spider are released.
458 prices are still strong despite an abundance of cars and similarly with McLaren 12 c and 650s where in contrast supply is very limited particularly spider wise
Maybe McLaren have just timed it right with the intro and pricing of the 570S
mrclav said:
ou're right, I stand corrected. 
You're not wrong about the sound though, not much sounds better to my ears...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOKdguuXl2g
Comparing this engine to the one in an F40 is irrelevant. An F40 was made in an era where no one gave a flying hoot about downsizing, mpg, co2, noise limits or trying their hardest to hide the fact that it was turbocharged and it's all the better for it.
The 488 is a modern turbo engine which means it will need to adhere to all of the above, in fact the whole point of going turbocharged was to fall in line with those limits in the first place. I am willing to bet that it won't be half as exciting or characterful as the unit found in the F40 as it's been designed to meet a different set of criteria.
Call me a Luddite but chasing mpg\co2 in a supercar seems to be a goal that is diametrically opposed to what a supercar should be about IMO.
The 488 is a modern turbo engine which means it will need to adhere to all of the above, in fact the whole point of going turbocharged was to fall in line with those limits in the first place. I am willing to bet that it won't be half as exciting or characterful as the unit found in the F40 as it's been designed to meet a different set of criteria.
Call me a Luddite but chasing mpg\co2 in a supercar seems to be a goal that is diametrically opposed to what a supercar should be about IMO.
Guvernator said:
Comparing this engine to the one in an F40 is irrelevant.
Firstly the comparison was made mostly as an excuse to listen to the video. Secondly you're right except, contrary to the accepted wisdom of turbos muffling an engines sound, it is still possible for a low capacity (2.9l) twin turbo to sound pretty epic! A trick valved/bypass exhaust should still be good to get around driveby regs etc... although granted the unburnt fuel on the over run is a thing of the past. Guvernator said:
Call me a Luddite but chasing mpg\co2 in a supercar seems to be a goal that is diametrically opposed to what a supercar should be about IMO.
I agree, but when the EU legislates against certain emissions in urban areas using the park and ride to rock up at the casino isn't what they are about either! 
fblm said:
I agree, but when the EU legislates against certain emissions in urban areas using the park and ride to rock up at the casino isn't what they are about either!
I know why they are doing it but a few hundred supercars driving in a city will do bugger all to emissions compared to the millions of buses, lorries, cabs, company cars driving around every day. If I were in charge, I'd take the sensible approach and just make low volume cars exempt but then I'm not and the EU lentilists probably think supercars are the devils work.
Also can someone clear up what the EU rules state exactly? I thought emissions where taken across the group, if so Fiat have plenty of EU friendly cars that should mean the small number of Ferrari's sold in comparison are an irrelevance. I just don't see why manufacturers are having to play the downsizing game on all their performance cars if that's the case.
Guvernator said:
I know why they are doing it but a few hundred supercars driving in a city will do bugger all to emissions compared to the millions of buses, lorries, cabs, company cars driving around every day. If I were in charge, I'd take the sensible approach and just make low volume cars exempt but then I'm not and the EU lentilists probably think supercars are the devils work.
Also can someone clear up what the EU rules state exactly? I thought emissions where taken across the group, if so Fiat have plenty of EU friendly cars that should mean the small number of Ferrari's sold in comparison are an irrelevance. I just don't see why manufacturers are having to play the downsizing game on all their performance cars if that's the case.
mattf93 said:
Not just to do with the EU surpassingly its massively to do with asian markets and the tax problems they have with any engines over 4L now, sand I think that performance car makers are obviously going to be aware of one of its largest markets!
Aha that makes sense although I was always under the impression that they really didn't give a damn about emissions in that part of the world. China point blank refused to sign up to the Kyota agreement after all so I find the draconian measures placed on cars rather puzzling, especially considering they aren't the main culprit in global emissions. Do lentilists everywhere just hate cars as a matter of course?Guvernator said:
mattf93 said:
Not just to do with the EU surpassingly its massively to do with asian markets and the tax problems they have with any engines over 4L now, sand I think that performance car makers are obviously going to be aware of one of its largest markets!
Aha that makes sense although I was always under the impression that they really didn't give a damn about emissions in that part of the world. China point blank refused to sign up to the Kyota agreement after all so I find the draconian measures placed on cars rather puzzling, especially considering they aren't the main culprit in global emissions. Do lentilists everywhere just hate cars as a matter of course?Guvernator said:
Comparing this engine to the one in an F40 is irrelevant.
To compare then is extremely relevant. Ferrari makes/made them, they both produce(d) more power than any previous turbocharged incarnation of an engine in a Ferrari production road car at the time of unveiling respectively, they're both 200mph capable and they're both V8s. The circumstances under which they came into existence be may be different but that has nothing to do with Ferrari. To be so dismissive of the newer engine is also an insult to the intelligence of the many people to worked on it as by any empirical measurement it simply is better (more power, greater efficiency from smaller capacity) than the old one and they both represent the cutting edge of Ferrari's know-how at the times they were released respectively.
People who don't like progress can either choose to accept change or be left behind.
mrclav said:
o compare then is extremely relevant. Ferrari makes/made them, they both produce(d) more power than any previous turbocharged incarnation of an engine in a Ferrari production road car at the time of unveiling respectively, they're both 200mph capable and they're both V8s.
The circumstances under which they came into existence be may be different but that has nothing to do with Ferrari. To be so dismissive of the newer engine is also an insult to the intelligence of the many people to worked on it as by any empirical measurement it simply is better (more power, greater efficiency from smaller capacity) than the old one and they both represent the cutting edge of Ferrari's know-how at the times they were released respectively.
People who don't like progress can either choose to accept change or be left behind.
Let me ask you a question? Do you really think Ferrari would have dropped their NA V8 if they hadn't been forced into it? I'm not a turbo hater as I have had some cracking turbo cars, nor am I an old luddite, I work in an industry that is literally nothing but change. The circumstances under which they came into existence be may be different but that has nothing to do with Ferrari. To be so dismissive of the newer engine is also an insult to the intelligence of the many people to worked on it as by any empirical measurement it simply is better (more power, greater efficiency from smaller capacity) than the old one and they both represent the cutting edge of Ferrari's know-how at the times they were released respectively.
People who don't like progress can either choose to accept change or be left behind.
What I am questioning is the reason for going turbocharged in the first place which isn't about making the car better, it's about making politicians happy\more money which in my opinion is never a good reason. Progress is good, IF it's for the right reasons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlvMRTQ6-X0&fe...
Chris harris has spoken. His 488GTB video, all the other press outlets embargo is over now as well if anybody's bothered enough to look at reviews, seems pretty good so far.
Chris harris has spoken. His 488GTB video, all the other press outlets embargo is over now as well if anybody's bothered enough to look at reviews, seems pretty good so far.
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