WHat will be the next big automotive merger??

[saaby93]

JLR looks exposed

[Db1904]

goneape said:

I wouldn't be at all surprised if China and India get involved somewhere. They will surely want a slice of the established market and I guess it's a tough place for new entrants.

I was thinking this, especially as it seems SAIG seem to be having some success with MG

[blearyeyedboy]

saaby93 said:

JLR looks exposed

A lot rides on the success (or not) of XE. The product is good enough but it remains to be seen if the money starts coming in at the rate TATA needs. Only then will we see if Solihull emulates Munich or Trollhätten.

[kambites]

BMW are starting to look awfully small for an independent mainstream car maker.

[The Vambo]

saaby93 said:

JLR looks exposed

Perfect fit for Renault/Nissan.

[glazbagun]

kambites said:

BMW are starting to look awfully small for an independent mainstream car maker.

I'm not sure size is so important if they can keep profitability up. Porsche were making fortunes off the back of the Cayenne, after all. So long as they can keep their "premiumness" up and don't overplay their hand I think they'll be OK.

I can't see Aston surviving much longer without someone to help them with economies of scale, but (Like Lotus) I'm not sure who would want them. Ford seem to be out of the buying game, as do GM. Toyota could buy Lotus or Proton, but I have no idea why they'd want to. Something as niche as a sportscar seems to be a shared risk thing these days, like the GT86, and why would anyone want Proton?

[kambites]

glazbagun said:

I'm not sure size is so important if they can keep profitability up. Porsche were making fortunes off the back of the Cayenne, after all. So long as they can keep their "premiumness" up and don't overplay their hand I think they'll be OK.

Well yes but Porsche are no longer independent, they're part of VAG.

Size, or at least total value, is enormously important; if one of the Chinese manufacturers has their eye on the outright purchase of a European brand, who else would be even vaguely affordable whilst having the right sort of product portfolio and without being a financial liability? It doesn't matter whether BMW could survive on their own, what matters is whether someone is willing to pay for 51% of their shares to get their hands on the company.

Edited by kambites on Saturday 30th May 15:43

[kambites]

The Vambo said:

saaby93 said:

JLR looks exposed

Perfect fit for Renault/Nissan.

Isn't it already owned by Tata?

[Bodo]

Mroad said:

As of the end of March:



...although not quite right as Spyker don't own SAAB anymore, it's NEVS.

Edited by Mroad on Saturday 30th May 11:08

That's older than March - AM does not belong to Ford for years now, and they have a technical agreement with AMG (Daimler).

The most intersting things will happen with tier-1 suppliers. ZF just bought TRW and thus put themselves into the top 5.

[RDMcG]

Apparentlly Marchionne also approached Toyota with merger in mind but was rebuffed. Should be an interesting year...

[Abbott]

JLR's owner Tata have got plenty of money and will continue to support them

[Mr GrimNasty]

It may not be big, but I predict vultures will be picking over the bones of TESLA for anything they can salvage in the not too distant future.

[Abbott]

Mroad said:

As of the end of March:

Edited by Mroad on Saturday 30th May 11:08

I posted the chart in the office and asked if anyone could spot any obvious errors.
The one comment back suggested it did not capture all of the Chinese Passenger Car manufacturers.
A quick google, even discounting multiple holding companies under similar name, there are about 38. So yes plenty of room for merger in China.
http://chinaautoweb.com/chinese-brands/

[Mercury00]

Crafty_ said:

There isn't much scope left is there ?

That leaves the Japanese marques. Mazda have a tie up with Ford, Isuzu links to GM (historically at least). What about Suzuki, Mitsubushi, Subaru ? the last two are industrial companies who happen to have car divisions - potential for technical tie ups ?

VW have a stake in Suzuki, although last I heard Mr. Suzuki was saying they were greedy s trying to force their tech into Japanese cars, and wanted out of the partnership.

[loose cannon]

Mr GrimNasty said:

It may not be big, but I predict vultures will be picking over the bones of TESLA for anything they can salvage in the not too distant future.

I agree the man likes setting up over valued company's that go bust
He must be great at marketing and sucking off congress

[AmitG]

Mr GrimNasty said:

It may not be big, but I predict vultures will be picking over the bones of TESLA for anything they can salvage in the not too distant future.

I agree.

[gdelargy]

Abbott said:

Mroad said:

As of the end of March:

I posted the chart in the office and asked if anyone could spot any obvious errors.

Toyota are significant stakeholders in Mitsubishi Motors? I can't find any evidence of this online.

[glazbagun]

Mercury00 said:

Crafty_ said:

There isn't much scope left is there ?

That leaves the Japanese marques. Mazda have a tie up with Ford, Isuzu links to GM (historically at least). What about Suzuki, Mitsubushi, Subaru ? the last two are industrial companies who happen to have car divisions - potential for technical tie ups ?

VW have a stake in Suzuki, although last I heard Mr. Suzuki was saying they were greedy s trying to force their tech into Japanese cars, and wanted out of the partnership.

That's what I read. VW bought something like 20% in exchange for hybrid tech sharing. Suzuki ended up suing them two years later saying they've reneged on sharing tech and are refusing to sell back their chunk of Suzuki.

[Slinky1989]

gdelargy said:

Abbott said:

Mroad said:

As of the end of March:

I posted the chart in the office and asked if anyone could spot any obvious errors.

Toyota are significant stakeholders in Mitsubishi Motors? I can't find any evidence of this online.

Also doesn't capture the powertrain agreements JLR still have with Ford and PSA.

[DukeDickson]

kambites said:

glazbagun said:

I'm not sure size is so important if they can keep profitability up. Porsche were making fortunes off the back of the Cayenne, after all. So long as they can keep their "premiumness" up and don't overplay their hand I think they'll be OK.

Well yes but Porsche are no longer independent, they're part of VAG.

Size, or at least total value, is enormously important; if one of the Chinese manufacturers has their eye on the outright purchase of a European brand, who else would be even vaguely affordable whilst having the right sort of product portfolio and without being a financial liability? It doesn't matter whether BMW could survive on their own, what matters is whether someone is willing to pay for 51% of their shares to get their hands on the company.

Edited by kambites on Saturday 30th May 15:43

What matters more is whether the Quandt family are happy, stick together and have shares that are anything like those the Ford family hold. If so, size and Chinese money may well be irrelevant, unless the premium paid is a long way beyond the norm.