Starter Track Car (yes this is another what car thread)
Discussion
feef said:
I'm using my MK2.5 MX5 both as a DD and a track toy with a view to competing in hillclimbs and/or sprint when I get my race suit and helmet sorted out (car's prepped and I've got my licence).
I'm also driving it to the South of France in July with my 4yr old as co-pilot. Just shows how versatile the MX5 really is, and still be fun.
I'd go for one with minimal rust. The engines are hardy and cheap to replace. The 1.6 revs more freely as standard, but if you're tracking it and thinking about modding it, the 1.8 will rev just as freely with a slightly lighter flywheel and I've set my rev limiter at 7600rpm (hard limit, soft limit comes in at 7200) and it revs beautifully.
Ah I will definitely consider that then, not sure how much rust is too much, and how big an issue it isI'm also driving it to the South of France in July with my 4yr old as co-pilot. Just shows how versatile the MX5 really is, and still be fun.
I'd go for one with minimal rust. The engines are hardy and cheap to replace. The 1.6 revs more freely as standard, but if you're tracking it and thinking about modding it, the 1.8 will rev just as freely with a slightly lighter flywheel and I've set my rev limiter at 7600rpm (hard limit, soft limit comes in at 7200) and it revs beautifully.
Any French fwd hatchback will be fun, for comfort and convenience you cant go wrong. You can carry four tyres and a tool box in it too which is quite handy. Personally I'd go for the ph2 Clio 172/182 as there are more "clean" cars around compared to Saxos, 106s etc of which many have been (badly) modified.
If going for an MX5 NA or NB get an NA, NB's suffer with exactly the same rear sill/Arch rot as the NA but they also have laminated front chassis legs (Bought in for crash regs) which can rot terminally and cost serious £££ to put right properly, NA's dont suffer with this problem, Well worth considering.
maurauth said:
Come across this on Autotrader whilst looking, at least it's an entry for the horrors thread haha
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
Engine cooling is for wimpshttp://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
Std road cars are crap on track.
Whilst they can be improved your Mrs then won't want to drive it nor will she be able to insure it.
The best mod you can do is to add a bucket seat and harness - that'll go down a storm.
I made my first MX5 better on track (seat, harness, rollbar, suspension) and found I was grabbing the keys to my wife's car most of the time.
Whilst they can be improved your Mrs then won't want to drive it nor will she be able to insure it.
The best mod you can do is to add a bucket seat and harness - that'll go down a storm.
I made my first MX5 better on track (seat, harness, rollbar, suspension) and found I was grabbing the keys to my wife's car most of the time.
V8RX7 said:
Std road cars are crap on track.
Whilst they can be improved your Mrs then won't want to drive it nor will she be able to insure it.
The best mod you can do is to add a bucket seat and harness - that'll go down a storm.
I made my first MX5 better on track (seat, harness, rollbar, suspension) and found I was grabbing the keys to my wife's car most of the time.
Yeah I think the most I'd do whilst it still being a road use car is a roll cage, suspension, seats and harness, maybe an exhaust that meets noise regs (would love another Larini but don't know if they're too loud).Whilst they can be improved your Mrs then won't want to drive it nor will she be able to insure it.
The best mod you can do is to add a bucket seat and harness - that'll go down a storm.
I made my first MX5 better on track (seat, harness, rollbar, suspension) and found I was grabbing the keys to my wife's car most of the time.
To clarify I normally drop her into work and pick her up as it's on my route but this would be for the odd days I can't and for the odd bit of shopping or going somewhere where I can drink rather than always driving.
Insurance shouldn't be an issue.
I'll definitely go out and have a look at some NA/Eunos MX-5s and some 182 Clios this weekend then.
Bang for Buck, really has to be a SAXO VTS. Most you pick up for sub 1K these days have been cammed/straight through exhause/chipped/lowered etc. all of which or most of which would be great out on the track. Plus these cars get to 100/110 in seconds! So great for track fun! And not 'too bad' to put the misses in on a day to day basis, but as with most cars of similar ilk, they will fold like a packet of crisps in a RTA, so just be warely of putting your loved one in something fast & light...
maurauth said:
Yeah I think the most I'd do whilst it still being a road use car is a roll cage, suspension, seats and harness, maybe an exhaust that meets noise regs (would love another Larini but don't know if they're too loud).
To clarify I normally drop her into work and pick her up as it's on my route but this would be for the odd days I can't and for the odd bit of shopping or going somewhere where I can drink rather than always driving.
Insurance shouldn't be an issue.
I'll definitely go out and have a look at some NA/Eunos MX-5s and some 182 Clios this weekend then.
Insurance really really will be an issue if you want to put a cage in it, trust me on that. To clarify I normally drop her into work and pick her up as it's on my route but this would be for the odd days I can't and for the odd bit of shopping or going somewhere where I can drink rather than always driving.
Insurance shouldn't be an issue.
I'll definitely go out and have a look at some NA/Eunos MX-5s and some 182 Clios this weekend then.
Also, have you every tried driving a caged car with bucket seats and harnesses on the road, in poor weather? I have. The noise from a stripped out interior quickly gets tiresome, as does spending 2 minutes readjusting your harnesses every time you get in an out. then there is the fact that, once strapped in, you cannot reach forward at all to touch buttons on the dashboard, nor can you see anything at oblique junctions for the same reason.
Fitting a cage is hugely invasive and requires a fair bit of interior removal and refit. Even 6 point bolt in cages are going to need mounting points welded in and the rear diagonal will restrict future use. If you think you need a cage, i'd look at 1-2-1 driver coaching first, prevention being better than a cure.
pablo said:
Fitting a cage is hugely invasive and requires a fair bit of interior removal and refit. Even 6 point bolt in cages are going to need mounting points welded in and the rear diagonal will restrict future use. If you think you need a cage, i'd look at 1-2-1 driver coaching first, prevention being better than a cure.
I'd only be fitting a cage in the MX-5 as I'm a bit dubious over how well protected a 15+ year old soft top which is prone to corrosion really could be in the event of it being rolled.I'm not expecting to roll it but from some of the videos I've seen sometimes it's out of your control what other drivers do on the track.
GreatGranny said:
Ditto the cage and harness comments.
On the road you don't want to be hitting your head against metal tubing if you crash.
Also you don't want to be fiddling with a harness every time you get into and out of the car.
Its your wife's daily first, track car second :-)
I know it'll still be a bit of an impact but I'd at least wrap the cage and at her height she shouldn't hit the cage (going on what I've seen sitting in other's MX5s. I'm quite a bit taller but can't see myself driving it other than with a helmet on at the track.On the road you don't want to be hitting your head against metal tubing if you crash.
Also you don't want to be fiddling with a harness every time you get into and out of the car.
Its your wife's daily first, track car second :-)
Haha it might be her daily but if I'm paying I'm sure she wouldn't mind extra safety features!
s200rey89 said:
Bang for Buck, really has to be a SAXO VTS. Most you pick up for sub 1K these days have been cammed/straight through exhause/chipped/lowered etc. all of which or most of which would be great out on the track. Plus these cars get to 100/110 in seconds! So great for track fun! And not 'too bad' to put the misses in on a day to day basis, but as with most cars of similar ilk, they will fold like a packet of crisps in a RTA, so just be warely of putting your loved one in something fast & light...
How many miles would you say are too many for one of these, as quite a few I've found have truly intergalactic milage?ChemicalChaos said:
No, don't.
These have the rear suspension from the E30 3-series, which is renowned for snap-oversteer when you least want or expect it. Not exactly a good combination for either track use or new drivers
Yes, those E30 M3s were never really that great on track.......These have the rear suspension from the E30 3-series, which is renowned for snap-oversteer when you least want or expect it. Not exactly a good combination for either track use or new drivers
maurauth said:
Any first hand experience of the Clios or Mk1/2 MX5s here?
Yep...I tracked a cheap old MK1 MX5 for a couple of years. Just changed the brake pads + fluid, got some decent tyres on it and thrashed it mercilessly for 40,000 miles on track and road, frequently staying out on track for very long periods. Even when I put a turbo on it it never really let me down although it felt a lot more fragile.Having tracked numerous cheap hot hatches etc. it's an absolute no brainer for me when someone asks what cheap track car to get. Unless you just fundamentally dislike MX5s or specifically want FWD there's really nothing that is logically a better choice. They are cheaper to run, more reliable and more fun than anything else at shed money.
EDIT: Here you go, this it pre-turbo, and even pre-track tyres...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAebXRxLP70
Edited by T0MMY on Monday 1st June 18:08
T0MMY said:
Yep...I tracked a cheap old MK1 MX5 for a couple of years. Just changed the brake pads + fluid, got some decent tyres on it and thrashed it mercilessly for 40,000 miles on track and road, frequently staying out on track for very long periods. Even when I put a turbo on it it never really let me down although it felt a lot more fragile.
Having tracked numerous cheap hot hatches etc. it's an absolute no brainer for me when someone asks what cheap track car to get. Unless you just fundamentally dislike MX5s or specifically want FWD there's really nothing that is logically a better choice. They are cheaper to run, more reliable and more fun than anything else at shed money.
EDIT: Here you go, this it pre-turbo, and even pre-track tyres...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAebXRxLP70
^ thisHaving tracked numerous cheap hot hatches etc. it's an absolute no brainer for me when someone asks what cheap track car to get. Unless you just fundamentally dislike MX5s or specifically want FWD there's really nothing that is logically a better choice. They are cheaper to run, more reliable and more fun than anything else at shed money.
EDIT: Here you go, this it pre-turbo, and even pre-track tyres...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAebXRxLP70
Edited by T0MMY on Monday 1st June 18:08
MX5s are cheap and RWD. so when it rains you go out, have fun and learn.
To make it a better track car lose some weight, fit bucket seats and a ROLL BAR - where does this full cage stuff come from? these are very restrictive and lethal on the road with no helmet. roll bar - fitted properly obviously! CG-Lock on normal 3-point for track is fine too. Harnesses look nice but are again restrictive and not needed on TDs.
Clark3y said:
E36 328, great chassis and engine, doesn't take an awful lot of pennies to bring out their potential.
I had one, and a 325. Just my opinion but they are nowhere near as fun to drive as the lighter cars mentioned on this thread, would cost you far more to track and would need a lot more mods.Not necessarily a recommendation (reckon I was very lucky), but have personal experience of buying and running a very cheap track toy/ DD.
Bought a £350 1999 Ibiza GTI (2.0) back in 2009. Was living in Edinburgh at the time, and a friend and I spotted a cheap trackday happening at Crail. My then girlfriends' brother had this as a cheap daily hack, it had afew months tax and about 2 months MOT and I imagine he didn't fancy putting it through its next MOT...
£175 each and we had our track car. Ripped out everything bar the front seats, dash and doorcards. Served us admirably over an unsympathetic track day at Crail, drove home, then DDd it for several months. Passed its MOT with 2 new tyres and a bunch of advisories.
As mentioned already, a little FWD hatch is a great starting point for trackdays and will be a fairly useful daily. We wouldn't have paid as little as £350 had we bought from a stranger, but significantly less than £1K is very doable.
Having owned 2 mk1 MX5s since I have to say that's the car your after though. Both of mine were sub £1K and ultra reliable DDs. Neither was tracked, but both were used very enthusiastically on the road so no reason to believe they'd struggle with abuse.
Simple and cheap to maintain/ improve. Perfectly acceptable daily for the missus. Hard to go wrong barring serious rust, but this can be spotted before purchase.
E36 318is was a very similar story. ~140hp was modest, but the chassis/ fun-factor was there. Cracking daily too. I'd say 328, but doubt there are any left at this price point.
It's a great situation to be in, plenty of fun stuff available at £1K that'll do everything you want.
Finally, I'd echo those who've discussed cages already. You don't really want to drive something with a cage if your not wearing a helmet- kills the DD factor.
Bought a £350 1999 Ibiza GTI (2.0) back in 2009. Was living in Edinburgh at the time, and a friend and I spotted a cheap trackday happening at Crail. My then girlfriends' brother had this as a cheap daily hack, it had afew months tax and about 2 months MOT and I imagine he didn't fancy putting it through its next MOT...
£175 each and we had our track car. Ripped out everything bar the front seats, dash and doorcards. Served us admirably over an unsympathetic track day at Crail, drove home, then DDd it for several months. Passed its MOT with 2 new tyres and a bunch of advisories.
As mentioned already, a little FWD hatch is a great starting point for trackdays and will be a fairly useful daily. We wouldn't have paid as little as £350 had we bought from a stranger, but significantly less than £1K is very doable.
Having owned 2 mk1 MX5s since I have to say that's the car your after though. Both of mine were sub £1K and ultra reliable DDs. Neither was tracked, but both were used very enthusiastically on the road so no reason to believe they'd struggle with abuse.
Simple and cheap to maintain/ improve. Perfectly acceptable daily for the missus. Hard to go wrong barring serious rust, but this can be spotted before purchase.
E36 318is was a very similar story. ~140hp was modest, but the chassis/ fun-factor was there. Cracking daily too. I'd say 328, but doubt there are any left at this price point.
It's a great situation to be in, plenty of fun stuff available at £1K that'll do everything you want.
Finally, I'd echo those who've discussed cages already. You don't really want to drive something with a cage if your not wearing a helmet- kills the DD factor.
I never put a cage or even a roll bar in my MX5. It's definitely accepting a fair bit more risk but actually it's still pretty safe to do a trackday, safer than driving fast on the road. My feeling was that a) I already did motorbike trackdays which are far more dangerous and b) if rollover fatalities in unprotected open top cars on trackdays were even remotely common there is absolutely no way you'd be allowed out on track without a cage. The fact the TDOs or track owners don't require it suggests to me it's extremely rare.
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