Why the split on SUV's?
Discussion
Dempsey1971 said:
The RR is just a really really nice place to be. It can hold it's own against the most luxurious cars on the planet. It also has the advantage of being easy to get into, and giving you a great view of the road ahead. An S Class is not sporty, but nobody complains about that. A RR is not sporty. One is taller than the other, that's about it.
I wouldn't dispute that they're good cars or that there aren't good reasons to buy one, it's more trying to explain the stigma. Ray-bans make damn fine glasses and there's every good reason to buy them, but they're also considered pretty flash, bit of a go-to poser choice, you can't deny the connotations and have to decide whats right for you.hairyben said:
I wouldn't dispute that they're good cars or that there aren't good reasons to buy one, it's more trying to explain the stigma. Ray-bans make damn fine glasses and there's every good reason to buy them, but they're also considered pretty flash, bit of a go-to poser choice, you can't deny the connotations and have to decide whats right for you.
RR might be a pair of Ray Bans but a Cayenne etc are like a pair of bright orange Oakleys and a Bluetooth headset.
I wouldn't go as far as to say that I like SUVs, but I do struggle to understand peoples dislike for them.
We went of an E70 X5 for our daily transport, as there was simply nothing that ticked as many boxes for our requirement of comfort, space, and the benefits of the elevated driving position that gets you out of the truck spray and headlight glare that has caused me issues in the past.
It's not a cheap car, however it's by no means expensive if you compare it to a newer car ...... it cost me less than a new Fiesta ST would have, for example, and I saved and bought it cash too. It does come in for the occasional negative comment, and has been referred to as a gas guzzler too. I always average close to 30mpg from it, which is fine for me.
It's a real swiss army knife that does lots of things really well .... it's not a driver's tool though, but it was never going to be, despite the manufacturers pretentions. It can scoot along a country road at a hot hatch worrying pace where the roads are rutted and damaged, however this perceived physics defying ability quickly erodes when you look at the punishment that the brakes and tyres take if you drive as such.
Our car is a nice spec, however relatively understated. Some of the Land Rover offerings with the acres of tinsel and chrome try a bit too hard, and I can see why some might take exception to the image problem of these cars from that point of view.
My experience leads me to conclude that far too many people worry about what others are doing, or what they have, to be able to take time to enjoy their own life. A significant number of people I can think of chase aspirations of a lifestyle or set of possessions (watch, car, house, holiday, TV, branded clothing) which suggests to others that they have succeeded in life. The SUV is part of that list for many, which is disappointing for people like me that choose one simply because it's objectively the best single family car solution to our requirements .......................not to mention it looks rude as feck, boyeeeee!!!
We went of an E70 X5 for our daily transport, as there was simply nothing that ticked as many boxes for our requirement of comfort, space, and the benefits of the elevated driving position that gets you out of the truck spray and headlight glare that has caused me issues in the past.
It's not a cheap car, however it's by no means expensive if you compare it to a newer car ...... it cost me less than a new Fiesta ST would have, for example, and I saved and bought it cash too. It does come in for the occasional negative comment, and has been referred to as a gas guzzler too. I always average close to 30mpg from it, which is fine for me.
It's a real swiss army knife that does lots of things really well .... it's not a driver's tool though, but it was never going to be, despite the manufacturers pretentions. It can scoot along a country road at a hot hatch worrying pace where the roads are rutted and damaged, however this perceived physics defying ability quickly erodes when you look at the punishment that the brakes and tyres take if you drive as such.
Our car is a nice spec, however relatively understated. Some of the Land Rover offerings with the acres of tinsel and chrome try a bit too hard, and I can see why some might take exception to the image problem of these cars from that point of view.
My experience leads me to conclude that far too many people worry about what others are doing, or what they have, to be able to take time to enjoy their own life. A significant number of people I can think of chase aspirations of a lifestyle or set of possessions (watch, car, house, holiday, TV, branded clothing) which suggests to others that they have succeeded in life. The SUV is part of that list for many, which is disappointing for people like me that choose one simply because it's objectively the best single family car solution to our requirements .......................
I think the issue with SUV's for me is the people driving them, who struggle to drive them. Not everyone, obviously.
I like them. They take up space yes, but most of them are not that much larger than a large saloon or MPV.
The other thing is crashes. If i had kids, I know what car I would rather they were in, and it isnt a small hatchback.
Which is probably why most of the mums I see parking near my flat cant deal with them, cant park them, block roads, clip wing mirrors, etc - but wouldnt drive anything else.
I like them. They take up space yes, but most of them are not that much larger than a large saloon or MPV.
The other thing is crashes. If i had kids, I know what car I would rather they were in, and it isnt a small hatchback.
Which is probably why most of the mums I see parking near my flat cant deal with them, cant park them, block roads, clip wing mirrors, etc - but wouldnt drive anything else.
I like 4x4s, in fact I've owned 4 of them. They will never be as dynamically good as a car or provide a very good balance of mpg & performance but they have other upsides. Ultimately on the road it doesn't really matter whether your car is fast or can corner at crazy speeds as most of the time you're just trundling along behind the car in front and a big 4x4 provides a nice view, loads of space and carrying capacity, towing capacity and total immunity to potholes, puddles, speed bumps, kerbs, suicidal wildlife, small children etc. In the UK this capability is almost entirely unnecessary but no more unnecessary than 0-60 in 4 seconds or 1.2 lateral G. I wouldn't have one as my only car but as a second car and off-roading toy they're great.
What really baffles me is 'sporty' 4x4s. What makes a good 'sporty' car and what makes a good 4x4 are completely opposing traits, they cannot be successfully combined. Taking a sports car and fitting it with a lift kit and big heavy all terrain tyres would render it useless as a sports car, equally taking a 4x4, lowering it, fitting it with stiff independent suspension, huge alloys and smooth rubber band tyres utterly ruins it as a 4x4. The result is a behemoth of a vehicle with no redeeming qualities whatsoever (the BMW and Audi 4x4s spring to mind). The sole reason for buying such vehicles is either ignorance (somehow believing they have any proper 4x4 capability) or as some kind of status symbol which is why they have such a bad rep (and are driven by incompetents or knobbers).
What really baffles me is 'sporty' 4x4s. What makes a good 'sporty' car and what makes a good 4x4 are completely opposing traits, they cannot be successfully combined. Taking a sports car and fitting it with a lift kit and big heavy all terrain tyres would render it useless as a sports car, equally taking a 4x4, lowering it, fitting it with stiff independent suspension, huge alloys and smooth rubber band tyres utterly ruins it as a 4x4. The result is a behemoth of a vehicle with no redeeming qualities whatsoever (the BMW and Audi 4x4s spring to mind). The sole reason for buying such vehicles is either ignorance (somehow believing they have any proper 4x4 capability) or as some kind of status symbol which is why they have such a bad rep (and are driven by incompetents or knobbers).
vikingaero said:
(2) They take up too much road/parking space. Why should I struggle to get into my car because your behemoth has parked too close/badly parked? It's not up to smaller car owners to sacrifice space for you or for car park providers to give you extra large spaces.
My Range Rover is shorter and narrower than your F10 5 Series. mat205125 said:
My experience leads me to conclude that far too many people worry about what others are doing, or what they have, to be able to take time to enjoy their own life. A significant number of people I can think of chase aspirations of a lifestyle or set of possessions (watch, car, house, holiday, TV, branded clothing) which suggests to others that they have succeeded in life. -]
And there it is folks.There is something intrinsically wrong with the attitude of the British when it comes to wealth and success.
A 4x4 allegedly means the owner thinks they're better than you and wants to rub it in your face by buying a large expensive (perceived) vehicle. I agree that some owners feel this way but I guarantee that most couldn't care less about how much money you think they have.
The underlying issue which is actually more worrying is that financial success is now frowned upon. How a capitalist economy built upon a strong finance industry intends to move forward and grow whilst stifled with envy I have no idea.
Rather than wish ill on your neighbour why not just try to improve your lot instead.
Most of them are bought to promote some sort of "status" and people that drive them never know how big the things are - country roads they always expect me to move out the way....f
k off!
Sure people buy them as they're comfortable etc but I'd wager it's outweighed by the "look at me" brigade. Oh and for what it's worth, I'm tallish so you'd think something like a Q7 would be fine - sat in the passenger seat in one and couldn't even sit up straight....what's the point?!
k off! Sure people buy them as they're comfortable etc but I'd wager it's outweighed by the "look at me" brigade. Oh and for what it's worth, I'm tallish so you'd think something like a Q7 would be fine - sat in the passenger seat in one and couldn't even sit up straight....what's the point?!
Tonberry said:
mat205125 said:
My experience leads me to conclude that far too many people worry about what others are doing, or what they have, to be able to take time to enjoy their own life. A significant number of people I can think of chase aspirations of a lifestyle or set of possessions (watch, car, house, holiday, TV, branded clothing) which suggests to others that they have succeeded in life. -]
And there it is folks.There is something intrinsically wrong with the attitude of the British when it comes to wealth and success.
A 4x4 allegedly means the owner thinks they're better than you and wants to rub it in your face by buying a large expensive (perceived) vehicle. I agree that some owners feel this way but I guarantee that most couldn't care less about how much money you think they have.
The underlying issue which is actually more worrying is that financial success is now frowned upon. How a capitalist economy built upon a strong finance industry intends to move forward and grow whilst stifled with envy I have no idea.
Rather than wish ill on your neighbour why not just try to improve your lot instead.
I own one of those "sporty" SUV's that everyone on here seems to hate: 54 plate BMW X3 3.0i petrol with the sport suspension package. I bought it for several reasons:
-sport suspension package makes it drive/handle like a car, petrol engine is reliable and has decent acceleration
-AWD helps out on wet road traction
-sits higher and has more ground clearance than an estate for better vision and I don't have to be worried about bad roads as much
-much more interior room than a comparable estate (especially cargo area height)
-I don't expect the vehicle to be able to off road to the ability of a Land Rover Defender, but is still perfectly capable of driving on dirt and unimproved roads without and issue.
-hopefully it holds value better than a comparable 3 series in the long run.
I had a similar X3 to this one back in the US, and during a major snow storm I drove to the market on un-plowed roads with no issue- our Saab 9-3 could not even make it out of the driveway.
-sport suspension package makes it drive/handle like a car, petrol engine is reliable and has decent acceleration
-AWD helps out on wet road traction
-sits higher and has more ground clearance than an estate for better vision and I don't have to be worried about bad roads as much
-much more interior room than a comparable estate (especially cargo area height)
-I don't expect the vehicle to be able to off road to the ability of a Land Rover Defender, but is still perfectly capable of driving on dirt and unimproved roads without and issue.
-hopefully it holds value better than a comparable 3 series in the long run.
I had a similar X3 to this one back in the US, and during a major snow storm I drove to the market on un-plowed roads with no issue- our Saab 9-3 could not even make it out of the driveway.
Agreed it has a higher driving position than an estate but I would dispute there is any other advantage over an AWD estate car.
It's your money and if it makes you happy then splendid but trying to objectively justify it is going to be a struggle.
fivepointnine said:
I own one of those "sporty" SUV's that everyone on here seems to hate: 54 plate BMW X3 3.0i petrol with the sport suspension package. I bought it for several reasons:
-sport suspension package makes it drive/handle like a car, petrol engine is reliable and has decent acceleration
If you bought a normal car with comfort suspension it would handle even better and actually be comfortable.-sport suspension package makes it drive/handle like a car, petrol engine is reliable and has decent acceleration
fivepointnine said:
-AWD helps out on wet road traction
Agreed, many normal cars can be had with AWD thoughfivepointnine said:
-sits higher and has more ground clearance than an estate for better vision and I don't have to be worried about bad roads as much
Being worried about bad roads is down to wheel and tyre choice not ground clearance. X5s have huge alloys with road tyres, you'd be better off in a comfort spec car with small wheelsfivepointnine said:
-much more interior room than a comparable estate (especially cargo area height)
They're not bad but no better than something like an A6 Avantfivepointnine said:
-I don't expect the vehicle to be able to off road to the ability of a Land Rover Defender, but is still perfectly capable of driving on dirt and unimproved roads without and issue.
Any car can be driven down dirt roads, an SUV is not required to tackle a bit of gravel.It's your money and if it makes you happy then splendid but trying to objectively justify it is going to be a struggle.
TurboHatchback said:
It's your money and if it makes you happy then splendid but trying to objectively justify it is going to be a struggle.
Why should anyone be pressured into objectively justifying their choice of vehicle? It seems that only those who buy 4x4/SUVs are constantly questioned about their purchase or have other road users go into laughably amateur psychologist mode when spotted. Why is this?Impasse said:
TurboHatchback said:
It's your money and if it makes you happy then splendid but trying to objectively justify it is going to be a struggle.
Why should anyone be pressured into objectively justifying their choice of vehicle? It seems that only those who buy 4x4/SUVs are constantly questioned about their purchase or have other road users go into laughably amateur psychologist mode when spotted. Why is this?Impasse said:
TurboHatchback said:
It's your money and if it makes you happy then splendid but trying to objectively justify it is going to be a struggle.
Why should anyone be pressured into objectively justifying their choice of vehicle? It seems that only those who buy 4x4/SUVs are constantly questioned about their purchase or have other road users go into laughably amateur psychologist mode when spotted. Why is this?Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff