Do you need anything more than a 320d?
Discussion
I don't see any contradiction.
If someone has good reasons why SUVs make sense to someone who doesn't go off road and doesn't need the extra space relative to a saloon, I am sure that Rob would listen to them... Just like we listen to his obsession with throttle lag in petrol BMWs
It would be perfectly fair for someone to say 'throttle lag really isn't a big deal, so you're putting way too much emphasis on it when choosing a car' or, as regards SUVs, 'A high driving position isn't at all attractive to me - it's just a reminder that you are driving a glorified van rather than a driver's car'. All perfectly legitimate views
Back on topic, I think the 3 series in one form or another is pretty much the only car most people need. For people like me, it ain't gonna be the 4 cyl diesel (and sadly BMW dropped the 330i), but the 328i would probably be all the car I need apart from the engine note and roughness. Certainly fast enough for needs (as opposed to wants).
If someone has good reasons why SUVs make sense to someone who doesn't go off road and doesn't need the extra space relative to a saloon, I am sure that Rob would listen to them... Just like we listen to his obsession with throttle lag in petrol BMWs
It would be perfectly fair for someone to say 'throttle lag really isn't a big deal, so you're putting way too much emphasis on it when choosing a car' or, as regards SUVs, 'A high driving position isn't at all attractive to me - it's just a reminder that you are driving a glorified van rather than a driver's car'. All perfectly legitimate views
Back on topic, I think the 3 series in one form or another is pretty much the only car most people need. For people like me, it ain't gonna be the 4 cyl diesel (and sadly BMW dropped the 330i), but the 328i would probably be all the car I need apart from the engine note and roughness. Certainly fast enough for needs (as opposed to wants).
ORD said:
Back on topic, I think the 3 series in one form or another is pretty much the only car most people need. For people like me, it ain't gonna be the 4 cyl diesel (and sadly BMW dropped the 330i), but the 328i would probably be all the car I need apart from the engine note and roughness. Certainly fast enough for needs (as opposed to wants).
I agree and while the 3 series is never going to set your pants on fire in any guise(M3 included) they are a decent enough car to drive and have a good driving position I think and are a pretty decent all round motor...I just wish folding rear seats was standard on the saloon like it is on the Coupe. The 330i is back now but in 2.0l 4 pot Turbo flavour...so more pace and better economy.
cerb4.5lee said:
whoami said:
RobM77 said:
Thanks ORD.
I have made mistakes in the past. My racing Caterham was a dog and my E46 330ci was just utterly terrible. In both cases I sold them on fairly quickly and moved on to better things. We live and learn. In the case of my 320d though I've owned it for years now and done 71,000 miles in it. It matches my car needs perfectly. I can't see why anyone would think I'd stick with a car for that long if I had reservations about it, especially not seeing as it's worth the equivalent of about 5 weeks salary and so easy to change for something else.
Sone people are just pretty narrow minded I suppose. My former neighbour couldn't understand why I owned my 2-Eleven. It was fascinating and hilarious to listen to her questions about why anyone would want such a thing.
I have made mistakes in the past. My racing Caterham was a dog and my E46 330ci was just utterly terrible. In both cases I sold them on fairly quickly and moved on to better things. We live and learn. In the case of my 320d though I've owned it for years now and done 71,000 miles in it. It matches my car needs perfectly. I can't see why anyone would think I'd stick with a car for that long if I had reservations about it, especially not seeing as it's worth the equivalent of about 5 weeks salary and so easy to change for something else.
Sone people are just pretty narrow minded I suppose. My former neighbour couldn't understand why I owned my 2-Eleven. It was fascinating and hilarious to listen to her questions about why anyone would want such a thing.
RobM77 on another tedious thread said:
I don't get off roaders that never go off road or tow heavy loads. I'm not one of those greenies who gets upset because people want to buy them, I just don't get it. From my perspective they're slow, or at least slower than a car would be with the same engine; they don't handle well, or at least they handle worse than they would with a lower ride height and less heavy beefed up componentry; and they cost loads to run in tyres, fuel and things like brake pads, wheel bearings etc. They don't seem to have a single redeeming feature that someone might like for road use - they're a 100% practical vehicle, so when never used for what they were designed for - what's the point? The only thing I can think of is some of them have seven seats for large families and they do drive better than any people carriers I've driven - although personally I'd rather use contraception and buy a four seater like a 5 series!
Indeed.Keeping an open mind it always important.
To be honest that's a really good example. If someone can give me a rational and intelligent argument why anyone would want to buy an SUV to drive purely on the road with no towing, then I'm all ears. I'm not going to tell such a person that they're 'justifying their purchase' though when they do so, or that somehow they're deluded or wrong. I will listen and try to understand. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it's not true.
Edited by RobM77 on Friday 24th July 16:27
SidewaysSi said:
If I used to drive a Caterham and Lotus and was forced to drive a 640, I too would need to convince myself and the world that it was the right thing to do. That or slit my wrists of course 
Your inflammatory subtext notwithstanding, you bring an interesting point (which I did cover before, but you probably didn't see).When I had the Caterham, I had to have an every day car. It also had to tow the Caterham and trailer etc - 330d, quickly followed by a Merc ML. The issue there was that in the 4 years I had the Caterham, I did 5000 miles. All of it either on track or on 100% pleasure driving. During the same 4 years, I did something close to 130,000 miles normal driving. So for 3% of my driving, the pleasure was amazing. The most fun I've had with my trousers on. However, for 97% of my driving, I was in a car that was heavily compromised. Slow/Thirsty/Heavy. Possibly the most un-drivers car that Merc have ever made. I realised that the combination didn't work.
House move, new business and marriage saw the decision to get rid of the Caterham. I stopped racing, track days dropped to once/twice per year, and I had no free time to get out and drive for the hell of it. I didn't turn a wheel for 5 months apart from the odd 10 mins.
I immediately traded the ML in as well and got a new Elise 111S as a daily driver, and got the Mrs a Mini. Great fun, used it as a daily driver and very quickly got the bug and upgraded it for an Exige. Still used it as a daily driver and loved that car. But.....the times when you got to 'use' it became less than 10% of the time on the road. The rest of the time I was in a car that was tiny, noise (stage 2), twitchy in the wet (cut slicks), had no real boot space, couldn't accommodate clients and spent most of its time in traffic, or on motorways staring at the back of a Mondeo bring driven by a guy in total comfort. It wasn't compromised 97% of the time like the ML was, but it was compromised 90% of the time, and much as the 10% made it worth it, the 90% became more miserable.
Then the Mrs fell pregnant and we both needed 4 doors. So I went into 4 successive 4-door BMWs. Each time I looked at every realistic alternative. Audi/Merc/Jag/etc. Each time the BMW topped the table. The last iteration was Spring 2014. I toyed with getting a smaller car and a Caterham again - but I don't have the time to ride my bike, play golf, etc etc....I certainly didn't have the time to run and enjoy a car that I would only ever be in by myself, thus I would be back to the 97%/3% era...only probably worse with kids at home that I seldom see anyway due to business. So I stuck with one car. I again drove just about every sizeable 4-door car at the £60/75k level. Some great cars, but in that company the 640d was just head and shoulders above everything in looks, drive, pace and enjoyment of somewhere to sit. I was sorely tempted by the M5 or M6....but just couldn't justify the premium (or convince the Mrs), and there was nothing else that came close as an ownership proposition. I've improved the power and improved the suspension to brush up both areas. My time behind the wheel is significant LESS compromised as the car is more fit for purpose than any other I've had whilst still providing me with a good degree of genuine driving enjoyment. On the occasions I feel the need for more fun. I can go and hire/borrow something really fun
So contrary to your inflammatory statement, and quite ironically - this 1750kg diesel actually creates less 'slit my wrist' moments than other of the scenarios described at the top of this post.
Plenty won't get it. But plenty don't think past their last 'blat' or think about a car fitting into a real life.
RobM77 said:
To be honest that's a really good example. If someone can give me a rational and intelligent argument why anyone would want to buy an SUV to drive purely on the road with no towing, then I'm all ears. I'm not going to tell such a person that they're 'justifying their purchase' though when they do so, or that somehow they're deluded or wrong. I will listen and try to understand. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it's not true.
Actually, as a former SUV owner, a high driving position is very appealing and the safety and space implications are attractive for a family.Edited by RobM77 on Friday 24th July 16:27
RobM77 said:
To be honest that's a really good example. If someone can give me a rational and intelligent argument why anyone would want to buy an SUV to drive purely on the road with no towing, then I'm all ears. I'm not going to tell such a person that they're 'justifying their purchase' though when they do so, or that somehow they're deluded or wrong. I will listen and try to understand. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it's not true.
Back peddling away nicely there Edited by RobM77 on Friday 24th July 16:27
cerb4.5lee said:
Credit to both Ares and Rob though because they both love their cars in equal measure whereas I tend to look for the flaws in mine rather than what they might actually be good at.
Did you look for weakness when you bought it?Did you do the same thing when choosing a wife?
But you are right, I tend to focus on what I like in things, rather than what I dislike.
Ares said:
cerb4.5lee said:
Credit to both Ares and Rob though because they both love their cars in equal measure whereas I tend to look for the flaws in mine rather than what they might actually be good at.
Did you look for weakness when you bought it?Did you do the same thing when choosing a wife?
But you are right, I tend to focus on what I like in things, rather than what I dislike.
It will be going soon though because a change in situation means we wont cover that mileage now so it will be back to petrol(which I am chuffed about) and something smaller and a little more enjoyable but we always wanted a 640d so its been nice to tick the box.
I do genuinely respect the way you fall for a car though and the one I have loved the most was my old 200sx but I still thought it was an ugly car to look at and had a terribly bland interior but I loved every second of the time I spent behind the wheel of it and that hasn't happened to me since.
St John Smythe said:
RobM77 said:
To be honest that's a really good example. If someone can give me a rational and intelligent argument why anyone would want to buy an SUV to drive purely on the road with no towing, then I'm all ears. I'm not going to tell such a person that they're 'justifying their purchase' though when they do so, or that somehow they're deluded or wrong. I will listen and try to understand. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it's not true.
Back peddling away nicely there Edited by RobM77 on Friday 24th July 16:27
RobM77 said:
To be honest that's a really good example. If someone can give me a rational and intelligent argument why anyone would want to buy an SUV to drive purely on the road with no towing, then I'm all ears. I'm not going to tell such a person that they're 'justifying their purchase' though when they do so, or that somehow they're deluded or wrong. I will listen and try to understand. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it's not true.
Like it or not SUVs are the consummate all rounder. They can do all the tasks you will demand of them in daily life. They may not be the fastest, most frugal or best handling but thats not what they are about. They're about pure practicality and being able to go pretty much anywhere, carrying pretty much anything, in pretty much any weather.Edited by RobM77 on Friday 24th July 16:27
Don't fall into the 'tyres cost a fortune' trap. When I had a Land Cruiser the tyres were £110 per corner and lasted 30k miles without trying. My current Defender will likely have tyres replaced through old age than lack of tread. I think the same sets been on there 5 or 6 years (and about 20,000 miles) and still have more tread than any road car tyre.
For touring the extra height gives a far better view of the countryside as you can often see over hedges etc and enjoy more of the scenery. And if you want to go somewhere remote than a dirt road/green lane, section of beach isn't a concern.
They definitely have their place as a great all round family vehicle.
edit: damn. Just added more to this pointless damned thread.
T0MMY said:
I don't agree with that at all, they're heavily compromised. The consummate all rounder would be an estate with halfway involving handling but that's for another thread.
Quite - SUVs sacrifice dynamics in 99% of driving to be able to go on a beach (should that ever happen) or do something else that might, at a push, add up to 1%.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff