Do you need anything more than a 320d?

[PTF]

Mr2Mike said:

So what about all those SUVs which have all the dynamic downsides of a tall wobbly off-roader, but few or none of the useful bits that would actually make them useful of-road? e.g. CR-V, RAV4 etc. It's like a butter knife styled to look like a Swiss army knife, but made out of rubber.

Oi!!

We've got a CRV as the family bus. It has all terrain tyres fitted as it is also the vehicle that my wife and i use in the winter when it's heavy rain or snow.

It is brilliant at what it does. It's practical. Economical (45 mpg on a cruise). Has a big boot that's perfect for the tip run, plus sliding and reclining rear seats. Good tow car too.

I'm sure a land rover defender would be better off road, but that's not my hobby. It does however cope with snow and mud quite well in sensible doses, certainly much better than our old seat leon did, or the current M135i, or any MX5s i've had.

[ORD]

Bill said:

Er.... Everyone is different, but for me the diesel bit is a compromise too far and there are any number of petrol fwd cars I'd rather have.

For me, too. I would never buy a diesel car.

My point was that an enthusiast who cant see why a 3er is better than a Mondeo isn't much of a driving enthusiast.

[danp]

S

cerb4.5lee said:

ORD said:

cerb4.5lee said:

I have said a few times in this thread that a mondeo does exactly the same job as a 3 series anyway so I agree you don't need a RWD BMW far from it.

Not for me, it doesn't. But I am not in the 99% of drivers that wouldn't know the driven wheels from a test drive. I don't like FWD in big cars.

Truth be told I don't like FWD in any car to be fair but as I have said before a family car is used mostly for getting from A to B or commuting so whether it has FWD or RWD doesn't really make much difference in the scheme of things.

You would never just go out for a blast for the fun of it in a family car or sports saloon anyway.

Not sure why later posts are suggesting 320d vs Mondy petrol, but with like for like engines surely most on PH would take the former? I can still remember the first time I tried rwd (e36 323i) after years of fwd, it truly was a lightbulb moment. Perhaps more modern BMW's are less rwd'y and the competition has closed up but suspect I'd still go rwd if possible.

And disagree with the last statement, I was recently looking for the most fun possible in 4 doors for a few grand (as two children to go in child seats) and went for an e90 330i, I absolutely just go out for a blast in it! As I'm sure people in hot hatches do, you'd really need a sports car for that? Would an M3 count?

[RobM77]

Kawasicki said:

ORD said:

If you cant appreciate and enjoy what makes a 320d better than a Mondeo, Insignia or whatever, you probably cant tell a 911 from an Elise.

This

It's no problem not being able to tell the difference between a Mondeo and a 3 series, I'm sure most people can't, but what annoys me is when those people tell others that they're wrong to care and differentiate. I probably can't tell the difference between a Parker pen and a Mont Blanc one, but I don't go on pen forums telling pen geeks that they're wrong

The other reason for disagreeing with ORD's statement is mentioned in reply to him above, and that's that perhaps the engine means more to you than the chassis on a car. That's fair enough, but again, you can't tell people that they're wrong or deluded to have different priorities to you.

Perhaps what Chris Harris meant is that if like him (or me) you get your performance fix on the track in something interesting (he filmed the video whilst en route to the ring to drive a full race spec Aston..), then the 320d probably is all you need on the road - 185bhp, rear drive, manual box, space for stuff - job done. I'd be thoroughly miserable in something front wheel drive, so that's out, and I wouldn't really use more power if I had it (and I didn't - every other car I've owned has been faster). Chris' words may not apply to everyone, but they certainly apply to me and a good number of like-minded people too.

[Bill]

ORD said:

For me, too. I would never buy a diesel car.

My point was that an enthusiast who cant see why a 3er is better than a Mondeo isn't much of a driving enthusiast.

It's not as simple as that, though. I have no interest in this sector at all but suspect for the price of a base 320d you could get a top of the range petrol Mondeo. (Ignoring the fact that they're entirely bought by the company car sector so you'd be mad to get a petrol, and if you are an enthusiast you'd opt out or get a toy as well...)

[cerb4.5lee]

danp said:

Not sure why later posts are suggesting 320d vs Mondy petrol, but with like for like engines surely most on PH would take the former? I can still remember the first time I tried rwd (e36 323i) after years of fwd, it truly was a lightbulb moment. Perhaps more modern BMW's are less rwd'y and the competition has closed up but suspect I'd still go rwd if possible.

And disagree with the last statement, I was recently looking for the most fun possible in 4 doors for a few grand (as two children to go in child seats) and went for an e90 330i, I absolutely just go out for a blast in it! As I'm sure people in hot hatches do, you'd really need a sports car for that? Would an M3 count?

I do ultimately prefer RWD and since 2002 nearly all the cars I have had have been RWD, from my point of view though both the 3 series and mondeo are family/fleet cars for pounding up and down motorways and just getting around in and for me they do exactly the same task and both are good at it.

I also have a E90 330i but I would never dream of just taking it for a drive for the sake of it but as a car to use as a daily run around/commuter I do like it, pleased you are enjoying yours

I have had a E92 M3 and on the right road at the right time they are great but for the rest of the time you may as well be in any 3 series...apart from one that has a 4 pot diesel engine in it!!

[RobM77]

Bill said:

ORD said:

For me, too. I would never buy a diesel car.

My point was that an enthusiast who cant see why a 3er is better than a Mondeo isn't much of a driving enthusiast.

It's not as simple as that, though. I have no interest in this sector at all but suspect for the price of a base 320d you could get a top of the range petrol Mondeo. (Ignoring the fact that they're entirely bought by the company car sector so you'd be mad to get a petrol, and if you are an enthusiast you'd opt out or get a toy as well...)

There isn't actually much difference in price between the two. My internet access is too limited at work to find out, but the last time I looked, the base 2.0 TDCi Mondeo and the 320d were only about £800 different, although I'm sure that gap would widen with the discounts that Ford offer (and rightly so if you look at the production costs of the two cars!). That's beside the point though, there is no amount of 'spec' that would make me want to drive a Mondeo - that's part of what being a car enthusiast is all about for me - I choose cars based on how they drive, not whether they have leather seats, cup holders and bluetooth etc, or even another 30bhp from whatever wheezy half castrated petrol engine the EU will allow us to have nowadays.

[Bill]

Because the 20d isn't wheezy and castrated too? (Not to mention smelly and clattery )

[anonymous-user]

Bill said:

Because the 20d isn't wheezy and castrated too? (Not to mention smelly and clattery )

Please don't feed him, for all our sakes.

[RobM77]

Bill said:

Because the 20d isn't wheezy and castrated too? (Not to mention smelly and clattery )

I never said it wasn't! It's all those things and more. I'm just saying that I can't see what all the fuss is about with modern petrol engines, unless we're talking something like a Porsche or Ferrari engine. Once you add in the throttle lag that most road car petrol engines have it equalises things even more, so if, like me, power isn't a huge priority in a road car and it's therefore going to be a sub 200bhp mundane engine, then I'll just buy the one I prefer driving without much preference for diesel or petrol. The car I chose was the 3 series, and the petrol ones have that lag so that's the decision made for me.

[Studio117]

RobM77 said:

Bill said:

Because the 20d isn't wheezy and castrated too? (Not to mention smelly and clattery )

I never said it wasn't! It's all those things and more. I'm just saying that I can't see what all the fuss is about with modern petrol engines, unless we're talking something like a Porsche or Ferrari engine. Once you add in the throttle lag that most road car petrol engines have it equalises things even more, so if, like me, power isn't a huge priority in a road car and it's therefore going to be a sub 200bhp mundane engine, then I'll just buy the one I prefer driving without much preference for diesel or petrol. The car I chose was the 3 series, and the petrol ones have that lag so that's the decision made for me.

I'd tend to agree. If i couldn't afford the fastest petrol model then i would just buy a diesel.

Most modern turbocharged petrols are now so similar to the diesel equivalent; low rev limit, sound woeful and designed around economy.

at least you might save some money with the diesel.

[anonymous-user]

http://www.dignitas.ch/

The best thing that can happen to this thread

[anonymous-user]

Due for a new company car. Thought this thread deserved a revival. Drove the 320d pre-lockdown. The acoustic glazing made a huge difference so inside the cabin the only things that tell you that you’re in a diesel is your butt dyno and the fuel gage/tacho. IMHO the G20 is everything the F30 should have been and it is closer to the drivers car feel of the E90.

[Mouse Rat]

isn't the problem now with 320d and the like getting screwed on BIK tax?
My comp car is due back soon and anything other than a hybrid or ev is around £400 a month in company car tax .

[Welshbeef]

Mouse Rat said:

isn't the problem now with 320d and the like getting screwed on BIK tax?
My comp car is due back soon and anything other than a hybrid or ev is around £400 a month in company car tax .

Time to switch to cash 4 car if possible save £400 BIK take the cash for car pay income tax and choose any car you like within age and number of doors constraints of the company policy.

[Welshbeef]

If you have a family of more than 4 yes as it’s not big enough - especially so if you want 3 child seats side by side.

If you have tall people then front seats and backs will be extremely uncomfortable with knees into the back of the seat which then means front passengers feel knees in their backs.

[nickfrog]

Welshbeef said:

If you have tall people then front seats and backs will be extremely uncomfortable with knees into the back of the seat which then means front passengers feel knees in their backs.

Depends what you call tall obviously...

But if you talk about 6ft1 that is definitely not the case in either the current or previous generations. I have sat in front of my son a one, we are both 6ft1. Plenty of leg room, very comfy on a long journey.

[Ares]

Welshbeef said:

If you have a family of more than 4 yes as it’s not big enough - especially so if you want 3 child seats side by side.

Very few cars will allow 3 child seats across the back seats, especially seats rather than boosters

[anonymous-user]

Ares said:

Welshbeef said:

If you have a family of more than 4 yes as it’s not big enough - especially so if you want 3 child seats side by side.

Very few cars will allow 3 child seats across the back seats, especially seats rather than boosters

Correct, basically you're into big SUVs and MPVs. You can just about do it with a P2 Volvo V70 but it's far from ideal.

[greenarrow]

Super_G said:

Due for a new company car. Thought this thread deserved a revival. Drove the 320d pre-lockdown. The acoustic glazing made a huge difference so inside the cabin the only things that tell you that you’re in a diesel is your butt dyno and the fuel gage/tacho. IMHO the G20 is everything the F30 should have been and it is closer to the drivers car feel of the E90.

Never driven either F30 or E90, but intruiged that many people on here say the E90 was the better driver's car.

I wouldn't mind an E90 myself, but I don't want another diesel. I personally think the post LCI E90 is a good looking car. Very understated. Not working from home now, I do very few miles so a diesel would be pointless. I like a car which is balanced and therefore wondered if a humble 4 cylinder might do the trick, but the internet is full of warnings about that era of 4 cylinder BMW car. So for now I stick to my ageing Mk1 Focus, a car which cost me just over £500 and ironically had me pondering after one early morning lockdown run recently, "Do you need any more than a Ford Focus".....