Do you need anything more than a 320d?

[ORD]

TurboHatchback said:

I have an early E90 (330i manual) and in many ways it is perfection, the handling is delightful, it offers enough refinement and space for four people to undertake most European trips whilst being quite compact by modern standards. The steering is lovely, the suspension (SE) is great and overall it's just a really nice car to drive.

I couldn't live with the nasty 20d engine though, IMO the place for rattly 4-cylinder diesels is in vans and pickups and that's it. I'm sure it's the rational choice but a BMW isn't a rational purchase, you have to want it and for me it's a straight 6 petrol or nothing. It's a huge part of why I enjoy the car so much.

Broadly my view on engine choice. You only live once. No need to live with a diesel.

[TurboHatchback]

ORD said:

TurboHatchback said:

I have an early E90 (330i manual) and in many ways it is perfection, the handling is delightful, it offers enough refinement and space for four people to undertake most European trips whilst being quite compact by modern standards. The steering is lovely, the suspension (SE) is great and overall it's just a really nice car to drive.

I couldn't live with the nasty 20d engine though, IMO the place for rattly 4-cylinder diesels is in vans and pickups and that's it. I'm sure it's the rational choice but a BMW isn't a rational purchase, you have to want it and for me it's a straight 6 petrol or nothing. It's a huge part of why I enjoy the car so much.

Broadly my view on engine choice. You only live once. No need to live with a diesel.

I should also add it's nothing to do with performance, in that respect a 320d is perfectly fine. It's about the smoothness and sound which make longer journeys soothing and pleasant rather than doing my head in like diesel clatter and vibration does.

[Chamon_Lee]

you absolutely do not need anything more than a 320d!
I say that as someone who generally has had M6, M5, A7s, S classes etc.
I have never got into a 320d and thought what the fk am I doing here. Its plenty quick enough, easy to run, fun enough at times.

BUT needs and wants are VERY different.

[RobM77]

ORD said:

TurboHatchback said:

I have an early E90 (330i manual) and in many ways it is perfection, the handling is delightful, it offers enough refinement and space for four people to undertake most European trips whilst being quite compact by modern standards. The steering is lovely, the suspension (SE) is great and overall it's just a really nice car to drive.

I couldn't live with the nasty 20d engine though, IMO the place for rattly 4-cylinder diesels is in vans and pickups and that's it. I'm sure it's the rational choice but a BMW isn't a rational purchase, you have to want it and for me it's a straight 6 petrol or nothing. It's a huge part of why I enjoy the car so much.

Broadly my view on engine choice. You only live once. No need to live with a diesel.

That depends on preferences and priorities. Petrol sounds nicer and for many is a nicer driving experience, but in many modern cars, certainly BMWs, you get a lag at the top of the pedal travel, so it depends what you want. My own personal choice is to stick with the other attributes that draw me towards BMWs, but to get a throttle response that lets me enjoy driving the car, at the expense of having a diesel. It's an individual choice. I've tried to own two petrol DBW BMWs and ended up selling both because I couldn't get on with them.

[anonymous-user]

RobM77 said:

That depends on preferences and priorities. Petrol sounds nicer and for many is a nicer driving experience, but in many modern cars, certainly BMWs, you get a lag at the top of the pedal travel, so it depends what you want. My own personal choice is to stick with the other attributes that draw me towards BMWs, but to get a throttle response that lets me enjoy driving the car, at the expense of having a diesel. It's an individual choice. I've tried to own two petrol DBW BMWs and ended up selling both because I couldn't get on with them.

Have you tried a direct injection petrol BMW?

[Mr_Yogi]

TurboHatchback said:

ORD said:

TurboHatchback said:

I have an early E90 (330i manual) and in many ways it is perfection, the handling is delightful, it offers enough refinement and space for four people to undertake most European trips whilst being quite compact by modern standards. The steering is lovely, the suspension (SE) is great and overall it's just a really nice car to drive.

I couldn't live with the nasty 20d engine though, IMO the place for rattly 4-cylinder diesels is in vans and pickups and that's it. I'm sure it's the rational choice but a BMW isn't a rational purchase, you have to want it and for me it's a straight 6 petrol or nothing. It's a huge part of why I enjoy the car so much.

Broadly my view on engine choice. You only live once. No need to live with a diesel.

I should also add it's nothing to do with performance, in that respect a 320d is perfectly fine. It's about the smoothness and sound which make longer journeys soothing and pleasant rather than doing my head in like diesel clatter and vibration does.

Have you actually even been in a current gen 320d? I did about 700 miles over a few days, last year (Wiltshire to Alton Towers and Wiltshire to Sevenoaks). This was in an F30, so not the current shape. While it wasn't as comfortable or smooth as my 535d, I couldn't fault the engine, you didn't even know it was there at motorway speeds. Same with the 520 I had loaned before that. There is absolutely nothing about the 320d's engine that would do your head in.

[RobM77]

stickleback123 said:

RobM77 said:

That depends on preferences and priorities. Petrol sounds nicer and for many is a nicer driving experience, but in many modern cars, certainly BMWs, you get a lag at the top of the pedal travel, so it depends what you want. My own personal choice is to stick with the other attributes that draw me towards BMWs, but to get a throttle response that lets me enjoy driving the car, at the expense of having a diesel. It's an individual choice. I've tried to own two petrol DBW BMWs and ended up selling both because I couldn't get on with them.

Have you tried a direct injection petrol BMW?

I'm not sure. The two petrol BMWs I owned were a 2000 E46 330ci and a 2007 Z4C, which I believe both used port injection? If I'm right, direct injection in BMW petrol engines came in with the 335i? I've driven a 2007 135i coupé, does that use direct injection? How about the latest MINIs, I've tried petrol variants of those.

[RobM77]

Mr_Yogi said:

TurboHatchback said:

ORD said:

TurboHatchback said:

I have an early E90 (330i manual) and in many ways it is perfection, the handling is delightful, it offers enough refinement and space for four people to undertake most European trips whilst being quite compact by modern standards. The steering is lovely, the suspension (SE) is great and overall it's just a really nice car to drive.

I couldn't live with the nasty 20d engine though, IMO the place for rattly 4-cylinder diesels is in vans and pickups and that's it. I'm sure it's the rational choice but a BMW isn't a rational purchase, you have to want it and for me it's a straight 6 petrol or nothing. It's a huge part of why I enjoy the car so much.

Broadly my view on engine choice. You only live once. No need to live with a diesel.

I should also add it's nothing to do with performance, in that respect a 320d is perfectly fine. It's about the smoothness and sound which make longer journeys soothing and pleasant rather than doing my head in like diesel clatter and vibration does.

Have you actually even been in a current gen 320d? I did about 700 miles over a few days, last year (Wiltshire to Alton Towers and Wiltshire to Sevenoaks). This was in an F30, so not the current shape. While it wasn't as comfortable or smooth as my 535d, I couldn't fault the engine, you didn't even know it was there at motorway speeds. Same with the 520 I had loaned before that. There is absolutely nothing about the 320d's engine that would do your head in.

This depends on speed and usage. Below about 20-30mph, in other words town driving, the sound is very obvious in my opinion, as is the vibration at very low speeds. Above 30-40mph there's not really much difference between the petrol and diesel sound. So yes, it depends where and how you're driving.

[anonymous-user]

Mr_Yogi said:

There is absolutely nothing about the 320d's engine that would do your head in.

It's funny how ones perspective can be changed by external influences.

I've got a 335d. Arguably one of the best deisel engines ever made. Smooth (for a derv) powerful (for anything), effortless (>600Nm of torque everywhere) and coupled to a state of the art automative gearbox, that is quick to shift, extremely smooth and has enough ratios to chose from for any driving situation.

And yet, after owning my EV for a few years, getting back into the 335 is like, well, going to a museum tbh! Shifts feel slow and ponderous, the cabin resonants to all softs of different and annoying frequencies, the gearbox shuffles around like a indecisive rabbit, and it seems to spend it's whole time just changing gear and interruting progress....

No, i'm not going to suggest that a modern derv actually "does your head in" but you'd be amazed what feels old, annoying and un-necessarily noisy/harsh once you've sampled a truely quiet, vibration free vehicle :-)

[RobM77]

Max_Torque said:

Mr_Yogi said:

There is absolutely nothing about the 320d's engine that would do your head in.

It's funny how ones perspective can be changed by external influences.

I've got a 335d. Arguably one of the best deisel engines ever made. Smooth (for a derv) powerful (for anything), effortless (>600Nm of torque everywhere) and coupled to a state of the art automative gearbox, that is quick to shift, extremely smooth and has enough ratios to chose from for any driving situation.

And yet, after owning my EV for a few years, getting back into the 335 is like, well, going to a museum tbh! Shifts feel slow and ponderous, the cabin resonants to all softs of different and annoying frequencies, the gearbox shuffles around like a indecisive rabbit, and it seems to spend it's whole time just changing gear and interruting progress....

No, i'm not going to suggest that a modern derv actually "does your head in" but you'd be amazed what feels old, annoying and un-necessarily noisy/harsh once you've sampled a truely quiet, vibration free vehicle :-)

In Yogi's defence, he was talking about comparing the diesel engine with a petrol engine. Your comments above could easily apply to petrol or diesel once you've adapted to an EV. An EV is of course a different thing entirely.

[anonymous-user]

RobM77 said:

Max_Torque said:

Mr_Yogi said:

There is absolutely nothing about the 320d's engine that would do your head in.

It's funny how ones perspective can be changed by external influences.

I've got a 335d. Arguably one of the best deisel engines ever made. Smooth (for a derv) powerful (for anything), effortless (>600Nm of torque everywhere) and coupled to a state of the art automative gearbox, that is quick to shift, extremely smooth and has enough ratios to chose from for any driving situation.

And yet, after owning my EV for a few years, getting back into the 335 is like, well, going to a museum tbh! Shifts feel slow and ponderous, the cabin resonants to all softs of different and annoying frequencies, the gearbox shuffles around like a indecisive rabbit, and it seems to spend it's whole time just changing gear and interruting progress....

No, i'm not going to suggest that a modern derv actually "does your head in" but you'd be amazed what feels old, annoying and un-necessarily noisy/harsh once you've sampled a truely quiet, vibration free vehicle :-)

In Yogi's defence, he was talking about comparing the diesel engine with a petrol engine. Your comments above could easily apply to petrol or diesel once you've adapted to an EV. An EV is of course a different thing entirely.

I was more referring to the fact that ones view point is defined by it's reference! ie whilst a 320d engine feels fine in isolation, spend time with say a 330i (6cyl petrol) and suddenly that 320d isn't the paragon of refinement you thought it was!

and yes, EVs pretty much relgate all reciprocating internal combustion engines into the "noisy, smelly and dirty" category :-)

[Fastdruid]

Max_Torque said:

I was more referring to the fact that ones view point is defined by it's reference! ie whilst a 320d engine feels fine in isolation, spend time with say a 330i (6cyl petrol) and suddenly that 320d isn't the paragon of refinement you thought it was!

and yes, EVs pretty much relgate all reciprocating internal combustion engines into the "noisy, smelly and dirty" category :-)

Many if not all diesel owners have stockholm syndrome.

Although equally the same case could be made for any ICE.

[cerb4.5lee]

For me the engine makes the car, therefore I really struggle with the 20d engine. It is easily the worst BMW engine that I've had. In fairness though it never stood a chance in comparison to the S54/N52/N62/S65 engines I've had. The 20d is a soul destroying engine without doubt for me.

[ORD]

Max_Torque said:

and yes, EVs pretty much relgate all reciprocating internal combustion engines into the "noisy, smelly and dirty" category :-)

"Relegate" suggests noisy and smelly are bad things. A naturally aspirated petrol engine sounds and smells great.

[Vickers_VC10]

ORD said:

A naturally aspirated petrol engine sounds and smells great.

To which the natural reply would be 'it depends' that said not many engines 'smell great' be it petrol or diesel. I'll make an exception for two strokes which stink in a pleasing way.

[RobM77]

Max_Torque said:

RobM77 said:

Max_Torque said:

Mr_Yogi said:

There is absolutely nothing about the 320d's engine that would do your head in.

It's funny how ones perspective can be changed by external influences.

I've got a 335d. Arguably one of the best deisel engines ever made. Smooth (for a derv) powerful (for anything), effortless (>600Nm of torque everywhere) and coupled to a state of the art automative gearbox, that is quick to shift, extremely smooth and has enough ratios to chose from for any driving situation.

And yet, after owning my EV for a few years, getting back into the 335 is like, well, going to a museum tbh! Shifts feel slow and ponderous, the cabin resonants to all softs of different and annoying frequencies, the gearbox shuffles around like a indecisive rabbit, and it seems to spend it's whole time just changing gear and interruting progress....

No, i'm not going to suggest that a modern derv actually "does your head in" but you'd be amazed what feels old, annoying and un-necessarily noisy/harsh once you've sampled a truely quiet, vibration free vehicle :-)

In Yogi's defence, he was talking about comparing the diesel engine with a petrol engine. Your comments above could easily apply to petrol or diesel once you've adapted to an EV. An EV is of course a different thing entirely.

I was more referring to the fact that ones view point is defined by it's reference! ie whilst a 320d engine feels fine in isolation, spend time with say a 330i (6cyl petrol) and suddenly that 320d isn't the paragon of refinement you thought it was!

and yes, EVs pretty much relgate all reciprocating internal combustion engines into the "noisy, smelly and dirty" category :-)

Gosh, I'd never describe any 4cyl diesel as a paragon of refinement; they're nowhere near as quiet and smooth as almost any petrol engine. The point I've made on this thread is that it depends on your use of the car. Below 30mph, a 320d does have vibrations and noise than a petrol engine doesn't have. This definitely applies at very low speeds, for example in London traffic. Once up to speed at 40mph+ there's not really a huge difference to the 6cyl diesel or petrol variants. I guess if you accelerate hard it's obvious, but in normal driving 40-70mph there isn't much difference.

[Welshbeef]

B'stard Child said:

Mr Tidy said:

Is a 320d all you need? Probably.

I would rather be dead.................

Life is just too short to drive a 320d

I call custard.
There is NOTHING wrong with a 320d in fact it’s a great car.
Conversely a Fiat Croma is st and worth passing away even if it was a free brand new car budget or top of the range yielding likely £20-30k cash if I traded it or even gave it away to a penny less person on the street.

[Triumph Man]

Not a 320d, but I think a 330d would be all I need in a car. I'd be disappointed with spending a load of money and having a 4 cylinder engine when for not much more outlay I could have a six.

[cerb4.5lee]

Triumph Man said:

Not a 320d, but I think a 330d would be all I need in a car. I'd be disappointed with spending a load of money and having a 4 cylinder engine when for not much more outlay I could have a six.

I always remember reading a review that said...the 320d is all you need...but the 330d is all you want.

In reality though that is still wrong...because a nice petrol engine is what you should really want!

[Triumph Man]

cerb4.5lee said:

Triumph Man said:

Not a 320d, but I think a 330d would be all I need in a car. I'd be disappointed with spending a load of money and having a 4 cylinder engine when for not much more outlay I could have a six.

I always remember reading a review that said...the 320d is all you need...but the 330d is all you want.

In reality though that is still wrong...because a nice petrol engine is what you should really want!

Haha that's true, however I'm a bit of a yokel and big multi cylinder diesels give me the horn.