Do you need anything more than a 320d?
Discussion
Interesting thread!
Yes the 320D is everything anyone really needs. But it isn't what everyone wants!
I've had a couple of 520D Msports (E60 and F10) over the past 8 years and they really are excellent cars. However when I changed again 6 months ago I went against the dealers advice and "downgraded" to an F30 3 series! I just felt the F10 was getting too big for me and I'm pretty sure the F30 is almost the same size as the E60.
And I love it! Why? Well I went M sport again but this time with the VDC suspension which makes a massive difference. I also went from the 4 pot 520D to a 6 pot 330D which really is superb. Maybe it lacks some of the panache of the bigger car in terms of its build but its comfortable, well made and much more fun to drive. I had the 8 speed gearbox in my F10 and again in the F30 and it really does suit the bigger engine the best. Yes the 320D is a fantastic all rounder but having 255 BHP , 0-60 in 5.5 secs and the ability to get 50 mpg in an everyday car has to be really everything that anybody would want?
Yes the 320D is everything anyone really needs. But it isn't what everyone wants!
I've had a couple of 520D Msports (E60 and F10) over the past 8 years and they really are excellent cars. However when I changed again 6 months ago I went against the dealers advice and "downgraded" to an F30 3 series! I just felt the F10 was getting too big for me and I'm pretty sure the F30 is almost the same size as the E60.
And I love it! Why? Well I went M sport again but this time with the VDC suspension which makes a massive difference. I also went from the 4 pot 520D to a 6 pot 330D which really is superb. Maybe it lacks some of the panache of the bigger car in terms of its build but its comfortable, well made and much more fun to drive. I had the 8 speed gearbox in my F10 and again in the F30 and it really does suit the bigger engine the best. Yes the 320D is a fantastic all rounder but having 255 BHP , 0-60 in 5.5 secs and the ability to get 50 mpg in an everyday car has to be really everything that anybody would want?
sealtt said:
I would hate to own a 3 series, just soooooooo boring.
andrewparker said:
I'm still of the opinion that it couldn't be described as anything but a first world problem 
As are 99% of the topics discussed on here, why single this one out? People agonising over tyre choice, which is the best brand of fuel, does a car have enough cup holders etc. etc. The simple fact is that there is a wide choice of cars available buy in the first world, so why go for the sheep's choice?Ares said:
As boring as listening to bleat on about how much they hate them, usually with no actual experience of one? <yawn>
Far, far more boring than that. Crikey. With a love of cars and driving, it's amazing I've not offed myself after being subjected to 7.5 years / 165,000 miles of 320d ownership.
I imagine I actually would have were it not; still a nice thing to look at once I've parked it, comfortable for 1000+ mile stints, economical, fast enough to hustle past traffic on the A-road part of my commute, spacious enough to get all my racing gear and my girlfriend's racing gear in, quiet enough to hear myself think at progress making motorway speeds after a stinker of a day, entertaining to push along the last twisty section of country road.
Do I occasionally want more, sure, who doesn't want a bit more poke or a bit less mass to chuck through the corners. Do I *need* more, nope.
I imagine I actually would have were it not; still a nice thing to look at once I've parked it, comfortable for 1000+ mile stints, economical, fast enough to hustle past traffic on the A-road part of my commute, spacious enough to get all my racing gear and my girlfriend's racing gear in, quiet enough to hear myself think at progress making motorway speeds after a stinker of a day, entertaining to push along the last twisty section of country road.
Do I occasionally want more, sure, who doesn't want a bit more poke or a bit less mass to chuck through the corners. Do I *need* more, nope.
Mr2Mike said:
sealtt said:
I would hate to own a 3 series, just soooooooo boring.
andrewparker said:
I'm still of the opinion that it couldn't be described as anything but a first world problem
As are 99% of the topics discussed on here, why single this one out?Troubleatmill said:
9 times out of 10 - Yes.
You can't fit any young kiddy prams, buggies etc in the boot
If you are a parent..... it is arse gravy.
If you are single/ couple - possibly
But there is a very good reason cars are evolving into S Max, C Max moulds.
Not sure what the problem is - they make a Tourer (or estate in normal language) and a GT (or hatchback in normal language) to cater for lugging all that cr*p about! C-max and S-max (plus Zafira, Scenic and similar dross) are surely the arse gravy? You can't fit any young kiddy prams, buggies etc in the boot
If you are a parent..... it is arse gravy.
If you are single/ couple - possibly
But there is a very good reason cars are evolving into S Max, C Max moulds.
Edited by Troubleatmill on Tuesday 23 June 20:47
But fundamentally I think Autocar had it pretty well nailed when they described the 320d as all the car you will ever NEED, but the 330d as all the car you will ever WANT.
Although saying that, after nearly 10 years of BMW 4 cylinder turbo-diesels I saw the light last year and bought a straight 6 naturally aspirated petrol engined BM and discovered the real Ultimate Driving Machine (shame they don't make any now)! Proper PH approach.
It was so good I bought another as a daily and I can't see me ever going back to the fuel of the devil.
Maybe it is now all about the Ultimate Lease Deal!
Mr Tidy said:
Not sure what the problem is - they make a Tourer (or estate in normal language) and a GT (or hatchback in normal language) to cater for lugging all that cr*p about! C-max and S-max (plus Zafira, Scenic and similar dross) are surely the arse gravy?
But fundamentally I think Autocar had it pretty well nailed when they described the 320d as all the car you will ever NEED, but the 330d as all the car you will ever WANT.
Although saying that, after nearly 10 years of BMW 4 cylinder turbo-diesels I saw the light last year and bought a straight 6 naturally aspirated petrol engined BM and discovered the real Ultimate Driving Machine (shame they don't make any now)! Proper PH approach.
It was so good I bought another as a daily and I can't see me ever going back to the fuel of the devil.
Maybe it is now all about the Ultimate Lease Deal!
I don't want a 330d. Never have done. Never will. I doubt I am alone in that! But fundamentally I think Autocar had it pretty well nailed when they described the 320d as all the car you will ever NEED, but the 330d as all the car you will ever WANT.
Although saying that, after nearly 10 years of BMW 4 cylinder turbo-diesels I saw the light last year and bought a straight 6 naturally aspirated petrol engined BM and discovered the real Ultimate Driving Machine (shame they don't make any now)! Proper PH approach.
It was so good I bought another as a daily and I can't see me ever going back to the fuel of the devil.
Maybe it is now all about the Ultimate Lease Deal!
Being at work I haven't watched the video (may do when I get home) but from a performance and dynamics point of view I can see where the "do you need anything more" angle comes from.
I have driven a 118d on a number of occasions (hire car, well spec'd too) and been driven in a 120 and a few 3 series cars and from a being in it point of view I just didn't get it, none of them felt special, none of them gave me any reason to want to go to the BMW dealer and buy any BMW product, a proper ///M car might be different, but having never been in or driven one I can't comment.
Do I need anything more than a 320d? absolutely because what I need from a car is far more than its performance and economy statistics or its badge, it has to have something, that thing that you can't name or describe but know it is there otherwise I get bored of it very quickly.
I have driven a 118d on a number of occasions (hire car, well spec'd too) and been driven in a 120 and a few 3 series cars and from a being in it point of view I just didn't get it, none of them felt special, none of them gave me any reason to want to go to the BMW dealer and buy any BMW product, a proper ///M car might be different, but having never been in or driven one I can't comment.
Do I need anything more than a 320d? absolutely because what I need from a car is far more than its performance and economy statistics or its badge, it has to have something, that thing that you can't name or describe but know it is there otherwise I get bored of it very quickly.
PanzerCommander said:
Do I need anything more than a 320d? absolutely because what I need from a car is far more than its performance and economy statistics or its badge, it has to have something, that thing that you can't name or describe but know it is there otherwise I get bored of it very quickly.
This, I've looked at the 320d, both the E46 and it's successor (both in Coupe form) and ultimately decided against them. Aside from the fact that I found the e46's brakes to way over servo'd (damn near had a BMW badge imprinted on to my forehead) it just didn't have that certain something (plus it's arches had started to go rusty, only noticeable if you looked), same with not only the second 320d I looked at (nice looking car mind) but also the Merc that I had. The Alfa on the other hand has that certain something that makes it an endearing car to own and drive.Yes for the most part a 320d is generally everything you need in a car as a decent all rounder, but as already been said it's not everything you may want (I'll not be buying another oil burner after the Alfa).
PanzerCommander said:
Do I need anything more than a 320d? absolutely because what I need from a car is far more than its performance and economy statistics or its badge, it has to have something, that thing that you can't name or describe but know it is there otherwise I get bored of it very quickly.
That's such an ironic thing to say. Performance, economy and badge are the very last reasons you, or any other PHer, should be interested in a 3 series, specifically the 320d. The performance is distinctly average, the economy can be found in any diesel, and the badge is the source of more road rage than you've ever seen in your life. It's everything else about the car that matters. Those other things are why I bought mine, why my Dad bought his and why more of my racing friends than I could list here own them (or the 120d or 520d). We all bought our cars despite the terrible image, the average performance and the average economy. Maybe I should just stay off this thread - it just seems to be about image and badge and status. Is there a Pistonheads.de or .fr I could join instead where we actually talk about cars?..emicen said:
alpha channel said:
Aside from the fact that I found the e46's brakes to way over servo'd (damn near had a BMW badge imprinted on to my forehead) .
Don't ever drive something made by part of VAG.
Over-servoed brakes is a trend of the last two decades followed by all manufacturers. The reason being that people think brakes are more powerful if they're more sensitive (I frequently hear people say that brakes in Porsches or Caterhams are scary and weak - yes, really!). If you drive the E36, E46, E90 and F30 and compare against their peers, BMW have resisted this change as much as they can whilst still selling cars. The E46, as discussed on another thread recently, was a sorry hour for BMW, but yes, the general trend has been for BMW to resist this fashion. The same applies to steering - many modern cars are now very darty about the straight ahead to give the illusion of sportiness, but then fall into understeer if you push further - BMW have kept their steering linear. I'm not trying to say they're doing anything special, but they are resisting these fashions and it's completely perverse to accuse them of following the trend when the reality is that they have their heels dug in trying to resist it.RobM77 said:
hat's such an ironic thing to say. Performance, economy and badge are the very last reasons you, or any other PHer, should be interested in a 3 series, specifically the 320d. The performance is distinctly average, the economy can be found in any diesel, and the badge is the source of more road rage than you've ever seen in your life. It's everything else about the car that matters. Those other things are why I bought mine, why my Dad bought his and why more of my racing friends than I could list here own them (or the 120d or 520d). We all bought our cars despite the terrible image, the average performance and the average economy. Maybe I should just stay off this thread - it just seems to be about image and badge and status. Is there a Pistonheads.de or .fr I could join instead where we actually talk about cars?..
You misunderstand me, I'm not interested in any of those cars because I cannot find anything about them that interests me, I listed those three as they are the things often mentioned by the average BMW/VAG/et al diesel bores. As an engineer I appreciate them and what goes into them but they offer me practically nothing in terms of what I either want or need from a car.RobM77 said:
cerb4.5lee said:
Ares said:
cerb4.5lee said:
sealtt said:
I would hate to own a 3 series, just soooooooo boring.
I agree and same with the M3 as well they are just too heavy to focussed on comfort and have miles to much sound deadening to be fun to drive, you just have to align your expectations of them and appreciate they are boring but I think they drive pretty well.You wont ever get many thrills from a 3 series regardless of what model it is but as a comfy car to get from A to B they do an alright job but a Mondeo will do exactly the same job as well.
Mondeo.... Funny.
The rest of the car is beautiful. Planted, balance, lithe and communicative in the way an almost 1500kg car shouldn't be. That said, the convertible was noticeably worse.
Given the choice of an E46, E91 or new M4 road or track, I wouldn't have the slightest hesitation in going for the new boy. Stunning.
ORD said:
The 3 series is fundamentally an excellent saloon car. Nobody should sensibly be disputing that, but the suggestion that an excellent saloon with a horrible engine is all anyone 'needs' is just nonsense.
To say the 320d engine is 'horrible' is even more nonsense. Like or loathe oil burning lumps, the 320d engine is one of the better diesel engines out there. 190bhp, hot hatch 0-60 & 40-70 times and real world 60+ mpg makes it quite an engineering feat if nothing else. Horrible engines are the asthmatic 2.0 and under lumps fitted to most saloon cars, and the even worse iron-age lumps fitted to the plethora of cheap-o cars on the roads.We can all cite the wonderful 6/8/10/12 cylinder engines in £50k+ cars, but in the sub-£30k bracket, with high levels of spec, there aren't many better lumps like-for-like (unless ANY petrol engine is deemed better than ANY diesel of course....
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