Do you need anything more than a 320d?
Discussion
I bought an F30 320d about a year ago, 80k miles, Auto, leather, extended nav etc for 7.5k. For the money, it seemed the best option out of everything else in that price range. It's done about 55mpg average over the last 10k and is easily capable of 70mpg on a run. 184hp is enough for commuting and with the 8 speed box its always quick enough. It really is all the car you'd ever need, lots of space, comfortable, RWD and cheap. I'm going to be selling mine soon as my commute has gone from 90 miles a day to about 20 miles a day (when we're finally back in the office). It's actually having the timing chain done as well at the cost of about 1k because it did begin to make a rattle and I couldn't bring myself to sell it to someone else and have it snap on them!
greenarrow said:
Your review is very well timed, as I was looking at a car for sale on facebook yesterday, a 320d SE, 134K miles £3600 with full BMW history. No MOT advisories. The elephant in the room is the timing chain issue on the N47 engine, but I guess I would just get the car inspected by a garage and budget for a replacement if there were any concerns. I keep reading comments like yours suggesting these cars wear miles very well and still feel fresh after 100K miles.
Timing chain issues were what put me off the 320d when I was car shopping recently. Whether it's blown out of proportion or a real worry is hard to say, I'd be interested to know what the cost of getting the chain and tensioners replaced is.TurboHatchback said:
Timing chain issues were what put me off the 320d when I was car shopping recently. Whether it's blown out of proportion or a real worry is hard to say, I'd be interested to know what the cost of getting the chain and tensioners replaced is.
About 1k from a good independent garage, mines being done as we speak. Don't bother going to BMW... was quoted £7k Crudeoink said:
TurboHatchback said:
Timing chain issues were what put me off the 320d when I was car shopping recently. Whether it's blown out of proportion or a real worry is hard to say, I'd be interested to know what the cost of getting the chain and tensioners replaced is.
About 1k from a good independent garage, mines being done as we speak. Don't bother going to BMW... was quoted £7k The VVT and timing chain was one thing that needed doing on our old Mazda 6 MPS as it was starting to rattle on startup (common issue with them).
That was a ~£700 fix but there was about £3-400 worth of parts in there.
Fastdruid said:
Well...As an example a Mk3 Mondeo will go round a track quicker than a more powerful E46 318i...
https://www.facebook.com/CHandMTopGearVideos/video... about 45min in or 53min if you want to skip to the laps.
Objectively the Mondeo is quicker so _its_ handling is better.
Subjectively people prefer the way the RWD 3-series feels even if it doesn't go round corners as well so _its_ handling is better.
Of course equally valid is that people prefer the BMW badge so its handling must be better.
I just watched this for the first time.https://www.facebook.com/CHandMTopGearVideos/video... about 45min in or 53min if you want to skip to the laps.
Objectively the Mondeo is quicker so _its_ handling is better.
Subjectively people prefer the way the RWD 3-series feels even if it doesn't go round corners as well so _its_ handling is better.
Of course equally valid is that people prefer the BMW badge so its handling must be better.
So you draw a conclusion as to which is the faster car based on 1 lap each on a single track? Where the cars were 2 secods apart? Do we know the driver didn't simply perform better on one lap than the other? Were the cars even on the same tyres? Were track conditions identical for the two laps? 2 seconds is messing up one corner.
Come on!
TurboHatchback said:
Timing chain issues were what put me off the 320d when I was car shopping recently. Whether it's blown out of proportion or a real worry is hard to say, I'd be interested to know what the cost of getting the chain and tensioners replaced is.
Yes are issues for 2007-2011 cars. I have a 2011 and heard the tail, tail signs and replaced it myself. The chain its self is a fairly easy job. The issue is getting to the chain which requires dropping the gearbox and a heap of components. This job topped the effort need to replace a thermostat on a Merc I had which required removal of the input manifold and a heap of other components.Fastdruid said:
Ouch. That still seems pricey, is it an engine out jobby or it it just a bunch of parts need replacing?
The VVT and timing chain was one thing that needed doing on our old Mazda 6 MPS as it was starting to rattle on startup (common issue with them).
That was a ~£700 fix but there was about £3-400 worth of parts in there.
Yeah it's an engine out job to do it properly as far as I'm aware. The £1k included all the guides and tensioners and engine fuilds etc, it's not a bad price at all in my opinion. At least with the chain done it should last the life of the vehicle, other vehicle is an Abarth 595 with a 4 year / 45k timing belt at about 500 a go so its about the same as that I guess for miles driven vs cost of timing belts / chainsThe VVT and timing chain was one thing that needed doing on our old Mazda 6 MPS as it was starting to rattle on startup (common issue with them).
That was a ~£700 fix but there was about £3-400 worth of parts in there.
Edited by Crudeoink on Tuesday 25th August 16:11
ashenfie said:
TurboHatchback said:
Timing chain issues were what put me off the 320d when I was car shopping recently. Whether it's blown out of proportion or a real worry is hard to say, I'd be interested to know what the cost of getting the chain and tensioners replaced is.
Yes are issues for 2007-2011 cars. I have a 2011 and heard the tail, tail signs and replaced it myself. The chain its self is a fairly easy job. The issue is getting to the chain which requires dropping the gearbox and a heap of components. This job topped the effort need to replace a thermostat on a Merc I had which required removal of the input manifold and a heap of other components.Buying an older car, I guess you can just look for one where the job has been done. For that reason, a higher mileage car might be a better bet than one on 70-80K where the chain is getting to the stage of needing replacing. Also, I've done quite a bit of research on the subject and believe the majority of failures are on cars that following long life oil changes, so a car that has had regular oil changes should be ok.
greenarrow said:
I might be wrong, but I think timing chain issues are potentially there until 2014 when I believe a different engine is fitted to the 320d.
Buying an older car, I guess you can just look for one where the job has been done. For that reason, a higher mileage car might be a better bet than one on 70-80K where the chain is getting to the stage of needing replacing. Also, I've done quite a bit of research on the subject and believe the majority of failures are on cars that following long life oil changes, so a car that has had regular oil changes should be ok.
Yep, well known fact long service intervals weaken an already "weak" part of the engine, as mentioned before I have had X2 N47 cars (2008 and 2012) the later,a 318d has revised guide and you can hear the chain, but I ain worried) with a combined 300k+ miles across both, and my anality over the oil change interval @ 8km MINIMUM did them both well, and also helps with the turbo, again a known "weak" part of this engine, exacerbated by the long oil changes again.Buying an older car, I guess you can just look for one where the job has been done. For that reason, a higher mileage car might be a better bet than one on 70-80K where the chain is getting to the stage of needing replacing. Also, I've done quite a bit of research on the subject and believe the majority of failures are on cars that following long life oil changes, so a car that has had regular oil changes should be ok.
Many manufacturers actually dropped the long service intervals of 20k+ to more sensible 10k intervals, not sure on BMW's stance on this...
It's a risk, but so is other things when buying a car, I would look for a minimum of 50k if buying used, so I can start my regime, or if I knew the car had interim oil changes.
greenarrow said:
ashenfie said:
TurboHatchback said:
Timing chain issues were what put me off the 320d when I was car shopping recently. Whether it's blown out of proportion or a real worry is hard to say, I'd be interested to know what the cost of getting the chain and tensioners replaced is.
Yes are issues for 2007-2011 cars. I have a 2011 and heard the tail, tail signs and replaced it myself. The chain its self is a fairly easy job. The issue is getting to the chain which requires dropping the gearbox and a heap of components. This job topped the effort need to replace a thermostat on a Merc I had which required removal of the input manifold and a heap of other components.Buying an older car, I guess you can just look for one where the job has been done. For that reason, a higher mileage car might be a better bet than one on 70-80K where the chain is getting to the stage of needing replacing. Also, I've done quite a bit of research on the subject and believe the majority of failures are on cars that following long life oil changes, so a car that has had regular oil changes should be ok.
_Hoppers said:
Apparently the revised engines share the same timing chain components as the N47? There's a chap in the BMW section whose 320 snapped a timing chain at 112k, he said he'd had oil changes at every 10k or so.
It seems that timing chain problems are less common on the F30 model to date, be that N47 or its replacement. If you check the Honest John site there are tons of reports of N47 timing chain failure on the E9X model, right up to 2011/12. However, on the same page for the F30 model, there is much less activity, in fact the N20 petrol engine seems to attract more attention for premature failure. Not saying it doesn't happen, but its just not as widely documented, it seems. Buying a car which has had regular oil changes would appear to be the answer, if you can find one.I bought a B47 420d after reading up on the N47 issues.
I believe the B47 has a different tensioner which is the same tensioner that BMW fitted under the recall for the N47.
The original recall is here - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B52kNOwSMHMVNGRJW...
This new tensioner should be much better and thus far B47 engine cars seem to be ok.
I believe the B47 has a different tensioner which is the same tensioner that BMW fitted under the recall for the N47.
The original recall is here - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B52kNOwSMHMVNGRJW...
This new tensioner should be much better and thus far B47 engine cars seem to be ok.
greenarrow said:
It seems that timing chain problems are less common on the F30 model to date, be that N47 or its replacement.
I hope so!!greenarrow said:
Buying a car which has had regular oil changes would appear to be the answer, if you can find one.
I bought my F30 320d without knowing about the timing chain issue (god knows how I missed that when when I was researching them?!) I bought mine at 27k, the longest distance between oil change is 13k, all others are at 9-10k. Fingers crossed mine will be ok._Hoppers said:
greenarrow said:
It seems that timing chain problems are less common on the F30 model to date, be that N47 or its replacement.
I hope so!!greenarrow said:
Buying a car which has had regular oil changes would appear to be the answer, if you can find one.
I bought my F30 320d without knowing about the timing chain issue (god knows how I missed that when I was researching them?!) I bought mine at 27k, the longest distance between oil change is 13k, all others are at 9-10k. Fingers crossed mine will be ok.My '57 320d E91 shat itself in June, I've just got it back a couple of weeks ago. The garage were in the middle of moving premises but I think they also didn't advise properly on the engine.
I was doing about 45mph when I lost all power, had to roll into a drive. The engine kept trying to restart with the stop/start tech, did it about 5 times then gave up. Was towed home and called my indy. They advised the camchain and arranged pick up.
He said cost would be £950 if I'm lucky, about £1500 if more work had to be done.
When he said the car was done for £950 (plus £40 for an alternator he had fitted as mine was showing 0 volts output) I arranged to go and get it. It broke down 100yds away! I walked back and he couldn't believe it. Turned out to be the battery so I agreed to an Exide to be fitted for £160 (Heavy duty cos of stop/start).
When I called to pick it up there was a knocking injector. Fixed that then a lower end knocking.
Turned out the engine was fubar'd and he should have told me to scrap it I reckon.
He did it all labour free and I had to pay another £450 for a totally reconditioned engine. Crank grinded, block and head machined, the lot.
It has done 125k miles. Oil gets changed very 8-10k miles but I've only had it from 78k.
Oh, and he said from the evidence inside the engine, the camchain has let go before... There were old whip marks.
These are the casings on the crank. The bits were in the oil bath.
I was doing about 45mph when I lost all power, had to roll into a drive. The engine kept trying to restart with the stop/start tech, did it about 5 times then gave up. Was towed home and called my indy. They advised the camchain and arranged pick up.
He said cost would be £950 if I'm lucky, about £1500 if more work had to be done.
When he said the car was done for £950 (plus £40 for an alternator he had fitted as mine was showing 0 volts output) I arranged to go and get it. It broke down 100yds away! I walked back and he couldn't believe it. Turned out to be the battery so I agreed to an Exide to be fitted for £160 (Heavy duty cos of stop/start).
When I called to pick it up there was a knocking injector. Fixed that then a lower end knocking.
Turned out the engine was fubar'd and he should have told me to scrap it I reckon.
He did it all labour free and I had to pay another £450 for a totally reconditioned engine. Crank grinded, block and head machined, the lot.
It has done 125k miles. Oil gets changed very 8-10k miles but I've only had it from 78k.
Oh, and he said from the evidence inside the engine, the camchain has let go before... There were old whip marks.
These are the casings on the crank. The bits were in the oil bath.
Edited by Fastchas on Wednesday 26th August 15:02
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