Do you need anything more than a 320d?

[Palmers]

Tractor lad said:

The problem with the quick diesels is that they weigh a huge amount and are only found in enormous floaty barges or SUVs that weigh over two tonnes; the V10 TDI for example weighed 200 kgs more than the petrol V8 in the Touraeg and Phaeton.

About the only interesting cars (to steer as well as just blast off) are the smallish saloons/estates with 6 pot diesels; the C350CDI, the A4 3.0TDI (not sure if they do thecBiTDI in the A4?) and the 335d which has now got too big and too comfy in F30 form.

So yes, the massive diesels will cause distortions of physics but show one an S bend and they'll weep.

My gripe isn't the way they drive (IMO the best are actually nice power units), the noise (they six pots all sound meaty as do the eights), it's the emissions crap they now all have that have utterly killed any "savings" in fuel with the reliability of a 70s Lancia. The diesel has had its day. It's petrols, petrol hybrids and full electric now.

I wholeheartedly agree. Although im a barge lover, why no big diesel engines in smaller cars?!

The V12 tdi they put in the Q7 would have been hella fun in another car. Id even settle for having it in an A8!

[RobM77]

Sump said:

Let's put it to a side that a 320d is a complete pile of turd, I've always found that the type of people who say xxx is too much power for the road and I'd be happy with a 2.0D everyday are the type who've never owned a relatively fast car.

For some reason the people above think that you have to go flat out, pedal to the metal when you head out.

Look at my profile!!

[cerb4.5lee]

RobM77 said:

cerb4.5lee said:

One or two people on here have said that the V8 diesels are good power plants, I haven't tried one so I presume its just noisy, unrefined and not much fun to sit behind like all diesels! hope I get to try one in the future as it could change my opinion of an oil burner.

I'm really confused by these constant criticisms of noise. At 60mph on an A or B road or 80mph on a motorway (abroad obviously ), you just can't hear it in the 3 series. All that I hear in mine is a rushing noise from the wind and the hum of the tyres on the tarmac. I've even compared with my friend's S Class (petrol V12) and the NVH is surprisingly similar. I've actually driven the entire E9x 3 series range and it's a very subtle audible difference between petrol and diesel at those speeds, unless you decide to floor it through the gears, but even then they're all so refined there's not really much difference to be honest. Do you crawl round a town centre with the windows open all the time or something?!

I don't have an issue with an oil burner at all at 70 mph cruising and I appreciate you cant tell what pump it uses at cruising speeds, its at idle and low revs even with the windows up I have a problem with the refinement of a diesel engine.

The other day I just happened to be looking at the front left tyre on the 640d as my mrs started it up and I thought the engine was going to vibrate out of the engine bay it was that bad and that is an example of how I cant understand how people can describe a diesel as a refined engine.

I probably do give diesels too much stick and maybe my loyalties lie too much towards a petrol engine but I just cant love a diesel no matter how hard I try but as a mode of transport to cover 40k miles a year in it maybe makes sense because of the range you get with them.

[cerb4.5lee]

yonex said:

cerb4.5lee said:

The four door M3 is very rare and seems really sort after, enjoy the day and let us know how you get on.

Yep, it's mine

Bit of a story though....I'll make a thread elsewhere and let the 3 series bashing continue. I never liked them...

Congratulations! really chuffed for you.

[cerb4.5lee]

Palmers said:

cerb4.5lee said:

One or two people on here have said that the V8 diesels are good power plants, I haven't tried one so I presume its just noisy, unrefined and not much fun to sit behind like all diesels! hope I get to try one in the future as it could change my opinion of an oil burner.

I have only tried the earliest 4.2 tdi that came in the D3 A8. (326bhp + 480 ft/lb) There are more powerful available in the D4. (345bhp / 590 ft/lb + 380bhp / 630 ft/lb) The latter coming with an 8 speed box.

I really need to try the later ones and also a mapped one as they are animals apparently.

I didnt find mine noisey, you could barely hear the engine running. I liked the low end grunt to be honest, could just hold it in 6th and pull from 30.

They must be proper beasts with those numbers for sure.

[Sump]

RobM77 said:

Sump said:

Let's put it to a side that a 320d is a complete pile of turd, I've always found that the type of people who say xxx is too much power for the road and I'd be happy with a 2.0D everyday are the type who've never owned a relatively fast car.

For some reason the people above think that you have to go flat out, pedal to the metal when you head out.

Look at my profile!!

Fixed my post.

[RobM77]

Let's flip this on its head and ask a question. What would you suggest that a person with the following requirements buys as his or her daily driver for doing 30-40k miles a year:

Rear wheel drive
Manual gearbox
0-60 in under 8, but not really bothered about straight line performance beyond that
Fairly low centre of gravity
Roof bars, preferably at chest height and definitely not above head height
Tow bar and towing capacity over 1600kg
Folding rear seats and space for a bike in the back etc
No DBW top of pedal throttle latency
Pedals set up for heel and toe
Sub 1500kg kerb weight, preferably sub 1400kg
Quiet on the motorway
Blends in, so nothing flash
No big wheels and low profile tyres
Modest and progressive grip levels
Low driving position with fully adjustable seats and steering wheel
Linear steering, throttle and brake response
Under £20k for a reasonable secondhand example and more than 30-35mpg

[rongagin]

I will start by saying I prefer turbo petrol, but have driven diesels (cars, mostly VAG) for maybe 200k over the years.

Anyway, recently my daughter's partner got a new 335D X drive or what ever it's called. He said did I fancy a drive, 318bhp and a wall of torque, of course I would like a drive. The car/engine was exceptionally quiet once moving, smooth, handled quite well for a biggish car, very swift (alleged 4.9 0-60) and completely lacking soul

I diplomatically said great car but perhaps better suited long journeys across Europe. He actually agreed and said his ex M3 "grabbed you and pulled" the 335D "pushed". He likes BMW and has done the 330D, 328, M3 and now 335D so two of each fuel. His verdict petrol is better, diesels suits what he needs right now.

[Sump]

RobM77 said:

Let's flip this on its head and ask a question. What would you suggest that a person with the following requirements buys as his or her daily driver for doing 30-40k miles a year:

Rear wheel drive
..Ridiculous list..

I love how you set up a requirements list that narrows it right down to a 320d

[RobM77]

Sump said:

RobM77 said:

Let's flip this on its head and ask a question. What would you suggest that a person with the following requirements buys as his or her daily driver for doing 30-40k miles a year:

Rear wheel drive
..Ridiculous list..

I love how you set up a requirements list that narrows it right down to a 320d

I did think that when I wrote it! It's a fairly typical list though, so I wouldn't call it ridiculous; I know a few others with those exact same requirements - typically people who race or who have a Lotus or Caterham as a second car and want to enjoy their driving from day to day as well.

The 320d and 330d match the requirements, as does the diesel C Class. The XE will join them in 2-3 years and if Alfa's plans go through then the new RWD Alfa a few years after that.

[cerb4.5lee]

Sump said:

RobM77 said:

Let's flip this on its head and ask a question. What would you suggest that a person with the following requirements buys as his or her daily driver for doing 30-40k miles a year:

Rear wheel drive
..Ridiculous list..

I love how you set up a requirements list that narrows it right down to a 320d

I agree and I would love to love my own cars as much as he does his and he would make the best 320d salesman in the world for sure!

[heebeegeetee]

St John Smythe said:

RobM77 said:

why more of my racing friends than I could list here own them (or the 120d or 520d)

320d. Because 'race car'. Lol

I still remember when I went to a practice day for historic racers at Silverstone with a friend one time. My friend races so we spent the time in the paddock, chatting to the great and good. Just about all the great historic boys were there, including Gerry Marshall, and come home time the only one of them I saw in a petrol car was Whizzo in his lovely little A35. All the others were in diesels.

So I think that the diesel hate might exist Because Petrol Head Innit whereas the *real* petrol heads go home in whatever suits them best. Which seemed to be whatever was comfiest, quietest and can go from A to B without filling up every time, no doubt after a tiring day in a real car.

[RobM77]

cerb4.5lee said:

Sump said:

RobM77 said:

Let's flip this on its head and ask a question. What would you suggest that a person with the following requirements buys as his or her daily driver for doing 30-40k miles a year:

Rear wheel drive
..Ridiculous list..

I love how you set up a requirements list that narrows it right down to a 320d

I agree and I would love to love my own cars as much as he does his and he would make the best 320d salesman in the world for sure!

Come on guys, use your brains; that list is fairly typical for a car enthusiast whose forced into needing a four door saloon for practical reasons - it's most definitely not rigged - it's too generic for starters - I've not put any requirements as to who makes the car, how reliable it is, whether it's a saloon, hatchback, estate etc - they're just general statements on what a car's like to drive and what it does.

Maybe, just maybe, you're fairly narrow minded and perhaps a bit.. err.. wrong?

[Sump]

RobM77 said:

Fairly low centre of gravity
No DBW top of pedal throttle latency
Pedals set up for heel and toe
Sub 1500kg kerb weight, preferably sub 1400kg
Linear steering, throttle and brake response

This one really gets me : No DBW top of pedal throttle latency

[confused_buyer]

RobM77 said:

Lastly, the Mondeo is a classic narrow power band diesel, whereas the BMW is way more revvy - they delayed entering the diesel market for so long because they wanted sufficient flexibility to string corners together without constantly changing gear. They really are as different as two cars can be!

Eh? BMW have been making diesels for decades - since the early 1980's at least.

Both the Mondeo and 3-Series look pretty similar to me - just that one has it's engine the other way round. Other than that....nah.....4 door saloons which do pretty much the same thing.

[RobM77]

cerb4.5lee said:

I agree and I would love to love my own cars as much as he does his and he would make the best 320d salesman in the world for sure!

I doubt I would, because unlike you though I don't think everyone has identical requirements in a car to me and just laugh if anyone suggests otherwise! I really can't believe you're this narrow minded, it's quite comical! I frequently advise people on what cars to buy and when I do so I ask them what they want out of the car etc and I can assure you that the answer is very rarely a BMW of any sort. My wife for example drives a Honda Civic Type R.

[lostkiwi]

And who says you need RWD for it to be a drivers car? The M100 Elan is generally thought to be an excellent handling car and its FWD....
If we lose the RWD requirement then a whole raft of alternatives come into play. Mazda 6 Sport for example (even with a diesel).

Edited by lostkiwi on Thursday 2nd July 16:08

[whoami]

Sump said:

RobM77 said:

Fairly low centre of gravity
No DBW top of pedal throttle latency
Pedals set up for heel and toe
Sub 1500kg kerb weight, preferably sub 1400kg
Linear steering, throttle and brake response

This one really gets me : No DBW top of pedal throttle latency

This is a proper comedy thread.

[lostkiwi]

Ignoring the DBW latency joke from BMWs website a 320i would also fit the bill.

[cerb4.5lee]

RobM77 said:

cerb4.5lee said:

I agree and I would love to love my own cars as much as he does his and he would make the best 320d salesman in the world for sure!

I doubt I would, because unlike you though I don't think everyone has identical requirements in a car to me and just laugh if anyone suggests otherwise! I really can't believe you're this narrow minded, it's quite comical! I frequently advise people on what cars to buy and when I do so I ask them what they want out of the car etc and I can assure you that the answer is very rarely a BMW of any sort. My wife for example drives a Honda Civic Type R.

I accept I am pretty narrow minded for sure but it was only a little bit of banter Rob and by no means did I say it to annoy or upset you buddy.