Do you need anything more than a 320d?
Discussion
lostkiwi said:
And who says you need RWD for it to be a drivers car? The M100 Elan is generally thought to be an excellent handling car and its FWD....
If we lose the RWD requirement then a whole raft of alternatives come into play. Mazda 6 Sport for example (even with a diesel).
Everyone's got different tastes though. I personally don't like front wheel drive and surely it's my right to have my own preferences, provided they're well informed?If we lose the RWD requirement then a whole raft of alternatives come into play. Mazda 6 Sport for example (even with a diesel).
Edited by lostkiwi on Thursday 2nd July 16:08
whoami said:
Sump said:
RobM77 said:
Fairly low centre of gravity
No DBW top of pedal throttle latency
Pedals set up for heel and toe
Sub 1500kg kerb weight, preferably sub 1400kg
Linear steering, throttle and brake response
No DBW top of pedal throttle latency
Pedals set up for heel and toe
Sub 1500kg kerb weight, preferably sub 1400kg
Linear steering, throttle and brake response
This one really gets me : No DBW top of pedal throttle latency
This is a proper comedy thread.
RobM77 said:
Everyone's got different tastes though. I personally don't like front wheel drive and surely it's my right to have my own preferences, provided they're well informed?
And that is exactly the point. Do you need anything more than a BMW320d was the question. For many even that is too much and for others not enough. For some a diesel is undesirable no matter how good (or otherwise) it is just as FWD to you is undesirable.
lostkiwi said:
And that is exactly the point. Do you need anything more than a BMW320d was the question. For many even that is too much and for others not enough.
For some a diesel is undesirable no matter how good (or otherwise) it is just as FWD to you is undesirable.
Yeah but you guys keep arguing about his. For some a diesel is undesirable no matter how good (or otherwise) it is just as FWD to you is undesirable.
lostkiwi said:
RobM77 said:
Everyone's got different tastes though. I personally don't like front wheel drive and surely it's my right to have my own preferences, provided they're well informed?
And that is exactly the point. Do you need anything more than a BMW320d was the question. For many even that is too much and for others not enough. For some a diesel is undesirable no matter how good (or otherwise) it is just as FWD to you is undesirable.
As I've already said many times, I'm not particularly a fan of diesels and I've never owned one before in my 20 years of driving (see my car history in my profile). I just happen to have my priorities laid out so that top of pedal engine response is a higher priority to me than the type of the engine, plus I'm mainly interested in the chassis, not the engine.
RobM77 said:
lostkiwi said:
RobM77 said:
Everyone's got different tastes though. I personally don't like front wheel drive and surely it's my right to have my own preferences, provided they're well informed?
And that is exactly the point. Do you need anything more than a BMW320d was the question. For many even that is too much and for others not enough. For some a diesel is undesirable no matter how good (or otherwise) it is just as FWD to you is undesirable.
As I've already said many times, I'm not particularly a fan of diesels and I've never owned one before in my 20 years of driving (see my car history in my profile). I just happen to have my priorities laid out so that top of pedal engine response is a higher priority to me than the type of the engine, plus I'm mainly interested in the chassis, not the engine.
The question posed was "Do you need anything more than a BMW 320d?" and most people have either agreed and supported their statements (yourself included) or disagreed and stated why (myself included). In your case the simple answer was 'Yes' in mine it was 'No'. Everything else is just noise.
God no. Would never touch one with someone elses.
I mean they are perfectly adequate if you are romping up the motorway and need the economy but I have zero "aspire" to own a base-spec German rep's car, I don't get the desire at all.
If I *was* doing mega motorway miles so as to require a diesel (not that I need to, I could do 100k pa business miles in my petrol and assuming no catastrophic failures still be 'up' in terms of costs) I'd rather spend the same cash on something higher spec'd that's still nice to drive and for that kind of usage if it's RWD or FWD doesn't matter.
Given ~25k to spend on a new car in that 'class' for that kind of role I'd go for a top end Mondeo (or Mazda 6 or VW Passat) over a base 316i any day.
Even if my boss said "we're losing the car allowance scheme, you have a choice of a BMW 320d M-Sport or a Mondeo Titanium-X TDCI210 as a company car" I'd plump for the Mondeo because while neither are desirable the Mondeo would cost me less in BIK.
I mean they are perfectly adequate if you are romping up the motorway and need the economy but I have zero "aspire" to own a base-spec German rep's car, I don't get the desire at all.
If I *was* doing mega motorway miles so as to require a diesel (not that I need to, I could do 100k pa business miles in my petrol and assuming no catastrophic failures still be 'up' in terms of costs) I'd rather spend the same cash on something higher spec'd that's still nice to drive and for that kind of usage if it's RWD or FWD doesn't matter.
Given ~25k to spend on a new car in that 'class' for that kind of role I'd go for a top end Mondeo (or Mazda 6 or VW Passat) over a base 316i any day.
Even if my boss said "we're losing the car allowance scheme, you have a choice of a BMW 320d M-Sport or a Mondeo Titanium-X TDCI210 as a company car" I'd plump for the Mondeo because while neither are desirable the Mondeo would cost me less in BIK.
RobM77 said:
Let's flip this on its head and ask a question. What would you suggest that a person with the following requirements buys as his or her daily driver for doing 30-40k miles a year:
Rear wheel drive
Manual gearbox
0-60 in under 8, but not really bothered about straight line performance beyond that
Fairly low centre of gravity
Roof bars, preferably at chest height and definitely not above head height8
Tow bar and towing capacity over 1600kg
Folding rear seats and space for a bike in the back etc
No DBW top of pedal throttle latency
Pedals set up for heel and toe
Sub 1500kg kerb weight, preferably sub 1400kg
Quiet on the motorway
Blends in, so nothing flash
No big wheels and low profile tyres
Modest and progressive grip levels
Low driving position with fully adjustable seats and steering wheel
Linear steering, throttle and brake response
Under £20k for a reasonable secondhand example and more than 30-35mpg
Mogadon?Rear wheel drive
Manual gearbox
0-60 in under 8, but not really bothered about straight line performance beyond that
Fairly low centre of gravity
Roof bars, preferably at chest height and definitely not above head height8
Tow bar and towing capacity over 1600kg
Folding rear seats and space for a bike in the back etc
No DBW top of pedal throttle latency
Pedals set up for heel and toe
Sub 1500kg kerb weight, preferably sub 1400kg
Quiet on the motorway
Blends in, so nothing flash
No big wheels and low profile tyres
Modest and progressive grip levels
Low driving position with fully adjustable seats and steering wheel
Linear steering, throttle and brake response
Under £20k for a reasonable secondhand example and more than 30-35mpg
RobM77 said:
lostkiwi said:
RobM77 said:
Everyone's got different tastes though. I personally don't like front wheel drive and surely it's my right to have my own preferences, provided they're well informed?
And that is exactly the point. Do you need anything more than a BMW320d was the question. For many even that is too much and for others not enough. For some a diesel is undesirable no matter how good (or otherwise) it is just as FWD to you is undesirable.
As I've already said many times, I'm not particularly a fan of diesels and I've never owned one before in my 20 years of driving (see my car history in my profile). I just happen to have my priorities laid out so that top of pedal engine response is a higher priority to me than the type of the engine, plus I'm mainly interested in the chassis, not the engine.
RobM77 said:
lostkiwi said:
RobM77 said:
Everyone's got different tastes though. I personally don't like front wheel drive and surely it's my right to have my own preferences, provided they're well informed?
And that is exactly the point. Do you need anything more than a BMW320d was the question. For many even that is too much and for others not enough. For some a diesel is undesirable no matter how good (or otherwise) it is just as FWD to you is undesirable.
As I've already said many times, I'm not particularly a fan of diesels and I've never owned one before in my 20 years of driving (see my car history in my profile). I just happen to have my priorities laid out so that top of pedal engine response is a higher priority to me than the type of the engine, plus I'm mainly interested in the chassis, not the engine.
Edited by 9mm on Thursday 2nd July 17:25
9mm said:
RobM77 said:
lostkiwi said:
RobM77 said:
Everyone's got different tastes though. I personally don't like front wheel drive and surely it's my right to have my own preferences, provided they're well informed?
And that is exactly the point. Do you need anything more than a BMW320d was the question. For many even that is too much and for others not enough. For some a diesel is undesirable no matter how good (or otherwise) it is just as FWD to you is undesirable.
As I've already said many times, I'm not particularly a fan of diesels and I've never owned one before in my 20 years of driving (see my car history in my profile). I just happen to have my priorities laid out so that top of pedal engine response is a higher priority to me than the type of the engine, plus I'm mainly interested in the chassis, not the engine.
lostkiwi said:
RobM77 said:
lostkiwi said:
RobM77 said:
Everyone's got different tastes though. I personally don't like front wheel drive and surely it's my right to have my own preferences, provided they're well informed?
And that is exactly the point. Do you need anything more than a BMW320d was the question. For many even that is too much and for others not enough. For some a diesel is undesirable no matter how good (or otherwise) it is just as FWD to you is undesirable.
As I've already said many times, I'm not particularly a fan of diesels and I've never owned one before in my 20 years of driving (see my car history in my profile). I just happen to have my priorities laid out so that top of pedal engine response is a higher priority to me than the type of the engine, plus I'm mainly interested in the chassis, not the engine.
The question posed was "Do you need anything more than a BMW 320d?" and most people have either agreed and supported their statements (yourself included) or disagreed and stated why (myself included). In your case the simple answer was 'Yes' in mine it was 'No'. Everything else is just noise.
Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 2nd July 18:05
I'm with Rob on this.
I can't really imagine a circumstance in which I would prefer a Mondeo. If I literally had to have either a 316i or top-spec Mondeo with a decent engine, that might be a hard choice; but I cannot see how that situation would arise.
To anyone who can't see why a 3er is better to drive than a Mondeo, just go and drive each down a country road. If you can't tell which is better, fill your boots and enjoy the Ford, but you're wrong
I can't really imagine a circumstance in which I would prefer a Mondeo. If I literally had to have either a 316i or top-spec Mondeo with a decent engine, that might be a hard choice; but I cannot see how that situation would arise.
To anyone who can't see why a 3er is better to drive than a Mondeo, just go and drive each down a country road. If you can't tell which is better, fill your boots and enjoy the Ford, but you're wrong
ORD said:
I'm with Rob on this.
I can't really imagine a circumstance in which I would prefer a Mondeo. If I literally had to have either a 316i or top-spec Mondeo with a decent engine, that might be a hard choice; but I cannot see how that situation would arise.
To anyone who can't see why a 3er is better to drive than a Mondeo, just go and drive each down a country road. If you can't tell which is better, fill your boots and enjoy the Ford, but you're wrong
You're totally missing the point. I'm not arguing that it is. I can't really imagine a circumstance in which I would prefer a Mondeo. If I literally had to have either a 316i or top-spec Mondeo with a decent engine, that might be a hard choice; but I cannot see how that situation would arise.
To anyone who can't see why a 3er is better to drive than a Mondeo, just go and drive each down a country road. If you can't tell which is better, fill your boots and enjoy the Ford, but you're wrong
The only reason for a diesel is because you do lots of miles[1] in which case having it a better drive (or what end it's driven) is pointless, it's all about where you're sat and for the same money I would be rather sat in a top end Mondeo with a nice engine than a base 3-series with the bottom of the range engine.
If on the other you're comparing spec with spec or actually had an interesting drive and ignoring price then I'd take the 3-series (in petrol form).
[1] Or are RobM77 and have a very exacting set of requirements that are only met by a 320d.
Edited by Fastdruid on Thursday 2nd July 19:46
Fastdruid said:
You're totally missing the point. I'm not arguing that it is.
The only reason for a diesel is because you do lots of miles[1] in which case having it a better drive (or what end it's driven) is pointless, it's all about where you're sat and for the same money I would be rather sat in a top end Mondeo with a nice engine than a base 3-series with the bottom of the range engine.
If on the other you're comparing spec with spec or actually had an interesting drive and ignoring price then I'd take the 3-series (in petrol form).
[1] Or are RobM77 and have a very exacting set of requirements that are only met by a 320d.
I would never buy a diesel, so I can't really get into that mindset. But I can understand the idea of simply driving dull miles, but that would never be 100% of your daily driving - so it would still be worth choosing the car that will, when the time comes, be enjoyable to drive.The only reason for a diesel is because you do lots of miles[1] in which case having it a better drive (or what end it's driven) is pointless, it's all about where you're sat and for the same money I would be rather sat in a top end Mondeo with a nice engine than a base 3-series with the bottom of the range engine.
If on the other you're comparing spec with spec or actually had an interesting drive and ignoring price then I'd take the 3-series (in petrol form).
[1] Or are RobM77 and have a very exacting set of requirements that are only met by a 320d.
Edited by Fastdruid on Thursday 2nd July 19:46
Also, as I have said before, I find better cars to be more enjoyable even in dull driving - there is always a little bit of the handling, control weights or whatever that make it more pleasant.
It took longer than I thought to become a "My name is RobM77 and I really really really love the 320d.... Did I mention I REALLY LOVE the 320d?" thread.
Rob, you have valid points which I agree with and no disrespect to you, but the way you wade into every discussion regarding pretty much anything with ANY link to the 320d can make you look a bit obsessive, especially when you get a bit butt-hurt and argue endlessly about it.
I think a lot of people agree with what you are saying, its well put and you know what your talking about but maybe change out of the BMW polo shirt once in a while!
Rob, you have valid points which I agree with and no disrespect to you, but the way you wade into every discussion regarding pretty much anything with ANY link to the 320d can make you look a bit obsessive, especially when you get a bit butt-hurt and argue endlessly about it.
I think a lot of people agree with what you are saying, its well put and you know what your talking about but maybe change out of the BMW polo shirt once in a while!
Rick1.8t said:
It took longer than I thought to become a "My name is RobM77 and I really really really love the 320d.... Did I mention I REALLY LOVE the 320d?" thread.
Rob, you have valid points which I agree with and no disrespect to you, but the way you wade into every discussion regarding pretty much anything with ANY link to the 320d can make you look a bit obsessive, especially when you get a bit butt-hurt and argue endlessly about it.
I think a lot of people agree with what you are saying, its well put and you know what your talking about but maybe change out of the BMW polo shirt once in a while!
Don't mention Polo's. Please. Just give it a day...Rob, you have valid points which I agree with and no disrespect to you, but the way you wade into every discussion regarding pretty much anything with ANY link to the 320d can make you look a bit obsessive, especially when you get a bit butt-hurt and argue endlessly about it.
I think a lot of people agree with what you are saying, its well put and you know what your talking about but maybe change out of the BMW polo shirt once in a while!
yonex said:
Rick1.8t said:
It took longer than I thought to become a "My name is RobM77 and I really really really love the 320d.... Did I mention I REALLY LOVE the 320d?" thread.
Rob, you have valid points which I agree with and no disrespect to you, but the way you wade into every discussion regarding pretty much anything with ANY link to the 320d can make you look a bit obsessive, especially when you get a bit butt-hurt and argue endlessly about it.
I think a lot of people agree with what you are saying, its well put and you know what your talking about but maybe change out of the BMW polo shirt once in a while!
Don't mention Polo's. Please. Just give it a day...Rob, you have valid points which I agree with and no disrespect to you, but the way you wade into every discussion regarding pretty much anything with ANY link to the 320d can make you look a bit obsessive, especially when you get a bit butt-hurt and argue endlessly about it.
I think a lot of people agree with what you are saying, its well put and you know what your talking about but maybe change out of the BMW polo shirt once in a while!
ORD said:
Fastdruid said:
You're totally missing the point. I'm not arguing that it is.
The only reason for a diesel is because you do lots of miles[1] in which case having it a better drive (or what end it's driven) is pointless, it's all about where you're sat and for the same money I would be rather sat in a top end Mondeo with a nice engine than a base 3-series with the bottom of the range engine.
If on the other you're comparing spec with spec or actually had an interesting drive and ignoring price then I'd take the 3-series (in petrol form).
[1] Or are RobM77 and have a very exacting set of requirements that are only met by a 320d.
I would never buy a diesel, so I can't really get into that mindset. But I can understand the idea of simply driving dull miles, but that would never be 100% of your daily driving - so it would still be worth choosing the car that will, when the time comes, be enjoyable to drive.The only reason for a diesel is because you do lots of miles[1] in which case having it a better drive (or what end it's driven) is pointless, it's all about where you're sat and for the same money I would be rather sat in a top end Mondeo with a nice engine than a base 3-series with the bottom of the range engine.
If on the other you're comparing spec with spec or actually had an interesting drive and ignoring price then I'd take the 3-series (in petrol form).
[1] Or are RobM77 and have a very exacting set of requirements that are only met by a 320d.
Also, as I have said before, I find better cars to be more enjoyable even in dull driving - there is always a little bit of the handling, control weights or whatever that make it more pleasant.
[1] Except to RobM77.
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