Do you need anything more than a 320d?

Do you need anything more than a 320d?

Author
Discussion

RobM77

35,349 posts

233 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
quotequote all
lostkiwi said:
And who says you need RWD for it to be a drivers car? The M100 Elan is generally thought to be an excellent handling car and its FWD....
If we lose the RWD requirement then a whole raft of alternatives come into play. Mazda 6 Sport for example (even with a diesel).

Edited by lostkiwi on Thursday 2nd July 16:08
Everyone's got different tastes though. I personally don't like front wheel drive and surely it's my right to have my own preferences, provided they're well informed?

RobM77

35,349 posts

233 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
quotequote all
whoami said:
Sump said:
RobM77 said:
Fairly low centre of gravity
No DBW top of pedal throttle latency
Pedals set up for heel and toe
Sub 1500kg kerb weight, preferably sub 1400kg
Linear steering, throttle and brake response
rofl

This one really gets me : No DBW top of pedal throttle latency


roflrofl
laugh

This is a proper comedy thread.
Why is that funny? Loads of people complain of that with modern DBW cars; in fact I was only discussing it the other day on the "worst cars I've ever owned thread".

lostkiwi

4,584 posts

123 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
quotequote all
RobM77 said:
Everyone's got different tastes though. I personally don't like front wheel drive and surely it's my right to have my own preferences, provided they're well informed?
And that is exactly the point. Do you need anything more than a BMW320d was the question. For many even that is too much and for others not enough.
For some a diesel is undesirable no matter how good (or otherwise) it is just as FWD to you is undesirable.

heebeegeetee

28,591 posts

247 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
quotequote all
lostkiwi said:
And that is exactly the point. Do you need anything more than a BMW320d was the question. For many even that is too much and for others not enough.
For some a diesel is undesirable no matter how good (or otherwise) it is just as FWD to you is undesirable.
Yeah but you guys keep arguing about his.

RobM77

35,349 posts

233 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
quotequote all
lostkiwi said:
RobM77 said:
Everyone's got different tastes though. I personally don't like front wheel drive and surely it's my right to have my own preferences, provided they're well informed?
And that is exactly the point. Do you need anything more than a BMW320d was the question. For many even that is too much and for others not enough.
For some a diesel is undesirable no matter how good (or otherwise) it is just as FWD to you is undesirable.
yes Absolutely. We all have different tastes. What's so stupid about this thread is how a certain core set of people just can't understand my priorities (and the priorities of friends of mine who have the same requirements), yet somehow expect others to respect theirs.

As I've already said many times, I'm not particularly a fan of diesels and I've never owned one before in my 20 years of driving (see my car history in my profile). I just happen to have my priorities laid out so that top of pedal engine response is a higher priority to me than the type of the engine, plus I'm mainly interested in the chassis, not the engine.

lostkiwi

4,584 posts

123 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
quotequote all
RobM77 said:
lostkiwi said:
RobM77 said:
Everyone's got different tastes though. I personally don't like front wheel drive and surely it's my right to have my own preferences, provided they're well informed?
And that is exactly the point. Do you need anything more than a BMW320d was the question. For many even that is too much and for others not enough.
For some a diesel is undesirable no matter how good (or otherwise) it is just as FWD to you is undesirable.
yes Absolutely. We all have different tastes. What's so stupid about this thread is how a certain core set of people just can't understand my priorities (and the priorities of friends of mine who have the same requirements), yet somehow expect others to respect theirs.

As I've already said many times, I'm not particularly a fan of diesels and I've never owned one before in my 20 years of driving (see my car history in my profile). I just happen to have my priorities laid out so that top of pedal engine response is a higher priority to me than the type of the engine, plus I'm mainly interested in the chassis, not the engine.
To be fair I think most people are stating their own preferences as opposed to refusing to accept yours. Its just you seem hell bent on trying to persuade others your priorities are right for them (at least thats how it looks from here).

The question posed was "Do you need anything more than a BMW 320d?" and most people have either agreed and supported their statements (yourself included) or disagreed and stated why (myself included). In your case the simple answer was 'Yes' in mine it was 'No'. Everything else is just noise.

Fastdruid

8,623 posts

151 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
quotequote all
God no. Would never touch one with someone elses.

I mean they are perfectly adequate if you are romping up the motorway and need the economy but I have zero "aspire" to own a base-spec German rep's car, I don't get the desire at all.

If I *was* doing mega motorway miles so as to require a diesel (not that I need to, I could do 100k pa business miles in my petrol and assuming no catastrophic failures still be 'up' in terms of costs) I'd rather spend the same cash on something higher spec'd that's still nice to drive and for that kind of usage if it's RWD or FWD doesn't matter.

Given ~25k to spend on a new car in that 'class' for that kind of role I'd go for a top end Mondeo (or Mazda 6 or VW Passat) over a base 316i any day.

Even if my boss said "we're losing the car allowance scheme, you have a choice of a BMW 320d M-Sport or a Mondeo Titanium-X TDCI210 as a company car" I'd plump for the Mondeo because while neither are desirable the Mondeo would cost me less in BIK.



9mm

3,128 posts

209 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
quotequote all
RobM77 said:
Let's flip this on its head and ask a question. What would you suggest that a person with the following requirements buys as his or her daily driver for doing 30-40k miles a year:

Rear wheel drive
Manual gearbox
0-60 in under 8, but not really bothered about straight line performance beyond that
Fairly low centre of gravity
Roof bars, preferably at chest height and definitely not above head height8
Tow bar and towing capacity over 1600kg
Folding rear seats and space for a bike in the back etc
No DBW top of pedal throttle latency
Pedals set up for heel and toe
Sub 1500kg kerb weight, preferably sub 1400kg
Quiet on the motorway
Blends in, so nothing flash
No big wheels and low profile tyres
Modest and progressive grip levels
Low driving position with fully adjustable seats and steering wheel
Linear steering, throttle and brake response
Under £20k for a reasonable secondhand example and more than 30-35mpg
Mogadon?

9mm

3,128 posts

209 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
quotequote all
RobM77 said:
lostkiwi said:
RobM77 said:
Everyone's got different tastes though. I personally don't like front wheel drive and surely it's my right to have my own preferences, provided they're well informed?
And that is exactly the point. Do you need anything more than a BMW320d was the question. For many even that is too much and for others not enough.
For some a diesel is undesirable no matter how good (or otherwise) it is just as FWD to you is undesirable.
yes Absolutely. We all have different tastes. What's so stupid about this thread is how a certain core set of people just can't understand my priorities (and the priorities of friends of mine who have the same requirements), yet somehow expect others to respect theirs.

As I've already said many times, I'm not particularly a fan of diesels and I've never owned one before in my 20 years of driving (see my car history in my profile). I just happen to have my priorities laid out so that top of pedal engine response is a higher priority to me than the type of the engine, plus I'm mainly interested in the chassis, not the engine.
I understand your priorities. You don't seem able to accept that mine require a far more interesting and faster car or seek to imply that they are irrelevant and that a 320D is all the car anyone needs.

9mm

3,128 posts

209 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
quotequote all
RobM77 said:
lostkiwi said:
RobM77 said:
Everyone's got different tastes though. I personally don't like front wheel drive and surely it's my right to have my own preferences, provided they're well informed?
And that is exactly the point. Do you need anything more than a BMW320d was the question. For many even that is too much and for others not enough.
For some a diesel is undesirable no matter how good (or otherwise) it is just as FWD to you is undesirable.
yes Absolutely. We all have different tastes. What's so stupid about this thread is how a certain core set of people just can't understand my priorities (and the priorities of friends of mine who have the same requirements), yet somehow expect others to respect theirs.

As I've already said many times, I'm not particularly a fan of diesels and I've never owned one before in my 20 years of driving (see my car history in my profile). I just happen to have my priorities laid out so that top of pedal engine response is a higher priority to me than the type of the engine, plus I'm mainly interested in the chassis, not the engine.
I understand your priorities. You don't seem able to accept that mine require a far more interesting and faster car or seek to imply that they are irrelevant and that a 320D is all the car anyone needs.

Edited by 9mm on Thursday 2nd July 17:25

RobM77

35,349 posts

233 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
quotequote all
9mm said:
RobM77 said:
lostkiwi said:
RobM77 said:
Everyone's got different tastes though. I personally don't like front wheel drive and surely it's my right to have my own preferences, provided they're well informed?
And that is exactly the point. Do you need anything more than a BMW320d was the question. For many even that is too much and for others not enough.
For some a diesel is undesirable no matter how good (or otherwise) it is just as FWD to you is undesirable.
yes Absolutely. We all have different tastes. What's so stupid about this thread is how a certain core set of people just can't understand my priorities (and the priorities of friends of mine who have the same requirements), yet somehow expect others to respect theirs.

As I've already said many times, I'm not particularly a fan of diesels and I've never owned one before in my 20 years of driving (see my car history in my profile). I just happen to have my priorities laid out so that top of pedal engine response is a higher priority to me than the type of the engine, plus I'm mainly interested in the chassis, not the engine.
I understand your priorities. You don't seem able to accept that mine require a far more interesting and faster car or seek to imply that they are irrelevant and that a 320D is all the car anyone needs.
No, not at all. I completely accept your priorities.

RobM77

35,349 posts

233 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
quotequote all
lostkiwi said:
RobM77 said:
lostkiwi said:
RobM77 said:
Everyone's got different tastes though. I personally don't like front wheel drive and surely it's my right to have my own preferences, provided they're well informed?
And that is exactly the point. Do you need anything more than a BMW320d was the question. For many even that is too much and for others not enough.
For some a diesel is undesirable no matter how good (or otherwise) it is just as FWD to you is undesirable.
yes Absolutely. We all have different tastes. What's so stupid about this thread is how a certain core set of people just can't understand my priorities (and the priorities of friends of mine who have the same requirements), yet somehow expect others to respect theirs.

As I've already said many times, I'm not particularly a fan of diesels and I've never owned one before in my 20 years of driving (see my car history in my profile). I just happen to have my priorities laid out so that top of pedal engine response is a higher priority to me than the type of the engine, plus I'm mainly interested in the chassis, not the engine.
To be fair I think most people are stating their own preferences as opposed to refusing to accept yours. Its just you seem hell bent on trying to persuade others your priorities are right for them (at least thats how it looks from here).

The question posed was "Do you need anything more than a BMW 320d?" and most people have either agreed and supported their statements (yourself included) or disagreed and stated why (myself included). In your case the simple answer was 'Yes' in mine it was 'No'. Everything else is just noise.
I agree. I accept everyone's individual priorities. My initial reply to this thread was actually very succinct; the argument has come from people who can't accept that my priorities and car choices are genuine.


Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 2nd July 18:05

ORD

18,086 posts

126 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
quotequote all
I'm with Rob on this.

I can't really imagine a circumstance in which I would prefer a Mondeo. If I literally had to have either a 316i or top-spec Mondeo with a decent engine, that might be a hard choice; but I cannot see how that situation would arise.

To anyone who can't see why a 3er is better to drive than a Mondeo, just go and drive each down a country road. If you can't tell which is better, fill your boots and enjoy the Ford, but you're wrong smile

Fastdruid

8,623 posts

151 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
quotequote all
ORD said:
I'm with Rob on this.

I can't really imagine a circumstance in which I would prefer a Mondeo. If I literally had to have either a 316i or top-spec Mondeo with a decent engine, that might be a hard choice; but I cannot see how that situation would arise.

To anyone who can't see why a 3er is better to drive than a Mondeo, just go and drive each down a country road. If you can't tell which is better, fill your boots and enjoy the Ford, but you're wrong smile
You're totally missing the point. I'm not arguing that it is.

The only reason for a diesel is because you do lots of miles[1] in which case having it a better drive (or what end it's driven) is pointless, it's all about where you're sat and for the same money I would be rather sat in a top end Mondeo with a nice engine than a base 3-series with the bottom of the range engine.

If on the other you're comparing spec with spec or actually had an interesting drive and ignoring price then I'd take the 3-series (in petrol form).

[1] Or are RobM77 and have a very exacting set of requirements that are only met by a 320d.

Edited by Fastdruid on Thursday 2nd July 19:46

ORD

18,086 posts

126 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
quotequote all
Fastdruid said:
You're totally missing the point. I'm not arguing that it is.

The only reason for a diesel is because you do lots of miles[1] in which case having it a better drive (or what end it's driven) is pointless, it's all about where you're sat and for the same money I would be rather sat in a top end Mondeo with a nice engine than a base 3-series with the bottom of the range engine.

If on the other you're comparing spec with spec or actually had an interesting drive and ignoring price then I'd take the 3-series (in petrol form).

[1] Or are RobM77 and have a very exacting set of requirements that are only met by a 320d.

Edited by Fastdruid on Thursday 2nd July 19:46
I would never buy a diesel, so I can't really get into that mindset. But I can understand the idea of simply driving dull miles, but that would never be 100% of your daily driving - so it would still be worth choosing the car that will, when the time comes, be enjoyable to drive.

Also, as I have said before, I find better cars to be more enjoyable even in dull driving - there is always a little bit of the handling, control weights or whatever that make it more pleasant.

Rick1.8t

1,463 posts

178 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
quotequote all
It took longer than I thought to become a "My name is RobM77 and I really really really love the 320d.... Did I mention I REALLY LOVE the 320d?" thread.

Rob, you have valid points which I agree with and no disrespect to you, but the way you wade into every discussion regarding pretty much anything with ANY link to the 320d can make you look a bit obsessive, especially when you get a bit butt-hurt and argue endlessly about it.

I think a lot of people agree with what you are saying, its well put and you know what your talking about but maybe change out of the BMW polo shirt once in a while!




anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
quotequote all
Rick1.8t said:
It took longer than I thought to become a "My name is RobM77 and I really really really love the 320d.... Did I mention I REALLY LOVE the 320d?" thread.

Rob, you have valid points which I agree with and no disrespect to you, but the way you wade into every discussion regarding pretty much anything with ANY link to the 320d can make you look a bit obsessive, especially when you get a bit butt-hurt and argue endlessly about it.

I think a lot of people agree with what you are saying, its well put and you know what your talking about but maybe change out of the BMW polo shirt once in a while!
Don't mention Polo's. Please. Just give it a day...

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
quotequote all
yonex said:
Rick1.8t said:
It took longer than I thought to become a "My name is RobM77 and I really really really love the 320d.... Did I mention I REALLY LOVE the 320d?" thread.

Rob, you have valid points which I agree with and no disrespect to you, but the way you wade into every discussion regarding pretty much anything with ANY link to the 320d can make you look a bit obsessive, especially when you get a bit butt-hurt and argue endlessly about it.

I think a lot of people agree with what you are saying, its well put and you know what your talking about but maybe change out of the BMW polo shirt once in a while!
Don't mention Polo's. Please. Just give it a day...
Reminds me a bit of that dxb335 chap few years back smile

Fastdruid

8,623 posts

151 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
quotequote all
ORD said:
Fastdruid said:
You're totally missing the point. I'm not arguing that it is.

The only reason for a diesel is because you do lots of miles[1] in which case having it a better drive (or what end it's driven) is pointless, it's all about where you're sat and for the same money I would be rather sat in a top end Mondeo with a nice engine than a base 3-series with the bottom of the range engine.

If on the other you're comparing spec with spec or actually had an interesting drive and ignoring price then I'd take the 3-series (in petrol form).

[1] Or are RobM77 and have a very exacting set of requirements that are only met by a 320d.
I would never buy a diesel, so I can't really get into that mindset. But I can understand the idea of simply driving dull miles, but that would never be 100% of your daily driving - so it would still be worth choosing the car that will, when the time comes, be enjoyable to drive.

Also, as I have said before, I find better cars to be more enjoyable even in dull driving - there is always a little bit of the handling, control weights or whatever that make it more pleasant.
But that is very much my point, the 320d is not enjoyable[1] (and neither it has to be said is the Mondeo TDCI whatever it is), doesn't matter how good the chassis is, it's ruined by a diesel anvil up front[1]. Having a good chassis just makes matters worse because then the lack of a decent engine[1] just makes things infuriating when you do get a decent road. The Mondeo might not be a patch on the 3-series (although to be somewhat fair to the Mondeo it's the size and weight of a 5-series so ignoring which wheels are driven it would be amazing if it was) but it's a very good chassis, a good steer and with a decent engine can still be fun[1].

[1] Except to RobM77.

Tractor lad

150 posts

105 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
quotequote all
St John Smythe said:
Reminds me a bit of that dxb335 chap few years back smile
Who now has a 997 GT3...