Do you need anything more than a 320d?

[Tractor lad]

Ares said:

More power makes you faster in a straight line
Less weight makes you faster everywhere.

/Colin Chapman


I could lap circuits quicker in my Caterham than Dave Bushell could in his Supercup race car. He was still 5-10% quicker when he drove mine though...

On a far less impressive scale, an RS6 (the older bi-turbo V8 model) Avant could not hang onto me in a mere mk4 Golf R32 on a tight twisty B road in Devon. I could see him looking rather frustrated - WAY more shove on the little straights but show it an S bend and it just went all over the place.

Then to level that, I could not shake off a very well driven 106 GTi in that same car.

And more recently, I had a full bore blast with a new AM Vantage V8 (some special edition with fancy paint) on a local B road - the acceleration stats are actually almost the same as my M135i but it's 150kgs heavier - the driver was clearly impressed and a top bloke as he flashed his lights and gave a friendly beep as I turned off.

None were aggro "races" just enthusiastic country blasts which are the highlight of driving to me.

[cerb4.5lee]

Ares said:

cerb4.5lee said:

Ares said:

Get a car weighing more than 1200kg, it's a barge

I tend to think that is certainly a valid point, the two most favourite cars I have owned (Cerbera/200SX) weighed around that figure and I enjoyed driving them both all of the time, everything else I have had after them have weighed more and I haven't loved any of them.

Weight ruins the driving experience full stop for sure, a few I have owned...E90 330i/330d too heavy, Z4M/E92 M3 too heavy, 640d/X5 4.8is too heavy and so on.

I really enjoyed the Caterham I drove though and I am now looking to make sure my next car isn't ruined by the unnecessary weight it carries around with it.

Except that nowadays, no real mainstream medium sized car comes in under 1200kg! ergo, all cars are too heavy. QED.

My old Whiting Blade was 380kg. That was lithe, but getting a real world everyday car to come in at even three times that is nigh-on impossible.

I agree it isn't easy to get a relatively light medium car nowadays and I like the GT86 in terms of weight but not in terms of power, you do have to go the lightweight track car route because most of us like a few mod cons in cars now which only scuppers weight too.

[Ares]

cerb4.5lee said:

Ares said:

swerni said:

cerb4.5lee said:

Ares said:

Get a car weighing more than 1200kg, it's a barge

I tend to think that is certainly a valid point, the two most favourite cars I have owned (Cerbera/200SX) weighed around that figure and I enjoyed driving them both all of the time, everything else I have had after them have weighed more and I haven't loved any of them.

Weight ruins the driving experience full stop for sure, a few I have owned...E90 330i/330d too heavy, Z4M/E92 M3 too heavy, 640d/X5 4.8is too heavy and so on.

I really enjoyed the Caterham I drove though and I am now looking to make sure my next car isn't ruined by the unnecessary weight it carries around with it.

Best go on diet

Many a true word said in jest. Comical how many fatties obsess about weight, and spend £XXXX on making bikes (and cars) lighter.....before realising their 90/100kg 15/20% body fat frame is costing them dearly

I weigh 12 stone...but many years ago I was 10 stone...I have to run three times a week now to keep things in check though! age is just a pain in the arse.

I weigh 10 stone....4 years ago I weighed 12. Have you nicked my weight?

....as for age, I weigh less now than I did at 20 and 30...and have only had sub-9% body fat since hitting 40. I am in the gym 6 days per week though. Don't blame age

[Dr Jekyll]

RobM77 said:

To be honest the whole BMW thing must be baffling in itself to people who can't detect the handling advantages over an Audi or Mondeo.

Yes, I'm totally baffled. I liked the engine of the BMW 325 I ran for a few years, but the handling seemed no better than the Peugeot 306 I had before it or the Mondeo I have now.

[cerb4.5lee]

Ares said:

More power makes you faster in a straight line
Less weight makes you faster everywhere.

/Colin Chapman

I think that is what gets to me with quick BMW`s now in that they have loads of power but its only there to compensate for the weight they carry, and more weight just effects direction changes and hammers brakes and uses more fuel too.

Colin Chapman has very wise words.

[T0MMY]

RobM77 said:

f course, yes. That's a classic PH mis-understanding that often comes up on threads like these. The statement "I prefer RWD" or even the stronger "I only like RWD" are both different to saying "all RWD cars are better than all FWD cars". It's a bit someone saying that they only really like slim women; that's not the same as saying that all slim women are attractive.

This is very true and while I think a 320d is a great alternative to many of the other Diesel repmobiles I'm restricted to as a company car, I'm not sure I'd automatically assume they handled better than a Mondeo or any other option purely on the basis that they're RWD.

I've not driven any recent models but had a couple of E36s and to be honest I always felt they were a long way from The Ultimate Driving Machine. I owned a Xsara VTS alongside a 328i coupe and while the latter was lovely on the motorway and had a great engine, the Xsara felt so much more lively and agile to drive with a far more exciting balance. BMWs in my experience are set up with safety understeer, the same as any other non-sports car (and many actual sportscars). The fact that you can upset the back end with a big indelicate dollop of throttle doesn't make them feel lively to me; I like a car that oversteers both on and off the throttle so you actually have some control over the thing. They may be RWD but they're a long way from sporty IMO, unless the recent versions are fundamentally different.

To clarify this is me railing against people that have only ever driven shopping cars then get a BMW and immediately think it's got "sportscar handling". I've nothing against them when assessed in the class of practical commuter cars and compared to the other similar repmobile options it's probably the one I'd have but it's far from a do-everything car if "everything" has to include being an entertaining B-road toy.

Edited by T0MMY on Monday 6th July 18:16

[Ares]

cerb4.5lee said:

Ares said:

More power makes you faster in a straight line
Less weight makes you faster everywhere.

/Colin Chapman

I think that is what gets to me with quick BMW`s now in that they have loads of power but its only there to compensate for the weight they carry, and more weight just effects direction changes and hammers brakes and uses more fuel too.

Colin Chapman has very wise words.

Current M3/M4 are almost 100kg lighter than the preceding M3. They're listening.

Audi have done the opposite with the RS4 though, adding almost 100kg

[TurboHatchback]

Ares said:

cerb4.5lee said:

Ares said:

swerni said:

cerb4.5lee said:

Ares said:

Get a car weighing more than 1200kg, it's a barge

I tend to think that is certainly a valid point, the two most favourite cars I have owned (Cerbera/200SX) weighed around that figure and I enjoyed driving them both all of the time, everything else I have had after them have weighed more and I haven't loved any of them.

Weight ruins the driving experience full stop for sure, a few I have owned...E90 330i/330d too heavy, Z4M/E92 M3 too heavy, 640d/X5 4.8is too heavy and so on.

I really enjoyed the Caterham I drove though and I am now looking to make sure my next car isn't ruined by the unnecessary weight it carries around with it.

Best go on diet

Many a true word said in jest. Comical how many fatties obsess about weight, and spend £XXXX on making bikes (and cars) lighter.....before realising their 90/100kg 15/20% body fat frame is costing them dearly

I weigh 12 stone...but many years ago I was 10 stone...I have to run three times a week now to keep things in check though! age is just a pain in the arse.

I weigh 10 stone....4 years ago I weighed 12. Have you nicked my weight?

....as for age, I weigh less now than I did at 20 and 30...and have only had sub-9% body fat since hitting 40. I am in the gym 6 days per week though. Don't blame age

Some of us weigh 90+kg even without spare fat and don't fit in lots of small light cars. Clearly there is only one solution for us, more POWAAAH!

[cerb4.5lee]

Ares said:

cerb4.5lee said:

Ares said:

swerni said:

cerb4.5lee said:

Ares said:

Get a car weighing more than 1200kg, it's a barge

I tend to think that is certainly a valid point, the two most favourite cars I have owned (Cerbera/200SX) weighed around that figure and I enjoyed driving them both all of the time, everything else I have had after them have weighed more and I haven't loved any of them.

Weight ruins the driving experience full stop for sure, a few I have owned...E90 330i/330d too heavy, Z4M/E92 M3 too heavy, 640d/X5 4.8is too heavy and so on.

I really enjoyed the Caterham I drove though and I am now looking to make sure my next car isn't ruined by the unnecessary weight it carries around with it.

Best go on diet

Many a true word said in jest. Comical how many fatties obsess about weight, and spend £XXXX on making bikes (and cars) lighter.....before realising their 90/100kg 15/20% body fat frame is costing them dearly

I weigh 12 stone...but many years ago I was 10 stone...I have to run three times a week now to keep things in check though! age is just a pain in the arse.

I weigh 10 stone....4 years ago I weighed 12. Have you nicked my weight?

....as for age, I weigh less now than I did at 20 and 30...and have only had sub-9% body fat since hitting 40. I am in the gym 6 days per week though. Don't blame age

Fair play! and I respect your dedication I was 10 stone from aged 16 to 32 but the last 10 years I have put it on, almost 42 now and if I gave up the drink I would soon be back to 10 stone but I am not giving that up! but I have to run or I would just pile it on.

[T0MMY]

Ares said:

Audi have done the opposite with the RS4 though, adding almost 100kg

Audi know their market

[cerb4.5lee]

Ares said:

cerb4.5lee said:

Ares said:

More power makes you faster in a straight line
Less weight makes you faster everywhere.

/Colin Chapman

I think that is what gets to me with quick BMW`s now in that they have loads of power but its only there to compensate for the weight they carry, and more weight just effects direction changes and hammers brakes and uses more fuel too.

Colin Chapman has very wise words.

Current M3/M4 are almost 100kg lighter than the preceding M3. They're listening.

Audi have done the opposite with the RS4 though, adding almost 100kg

Yes BMW do seem to be listening but with my sensible cap on if you want a fast involving car you have to go lightweight but if you want something fast but comfortable you have to put up with the extra weight and both cars are good at doing a different job I suppose.

[s m]

ORD said:

s m said:

Isn't the overall weight and proportion of it over the front wheels basically the same as the other 3-series with similar power?
Wouldn't have thought the 4-pot diesel sits any further forward than a straight 6

No idea. I says what I sees I don't experience the same thing in my car (320i so pretty much identical power to the 320d). Some of that may be down to it having the better suspension - M Sport

That's the weight distribution for the F30 320d Sport from the Autocar test - 1535kg total weight so, as you say, probably down to suspension/tyres with the diesel variant you've tried.

Most modern '3s' are around that ....although the E36 328i Touring they tested. had a bit of a rear weight bias

Toyota made the GT86 slightly nose heavy iirc as they reckoned it handled slightly better that way

[RobM77]

T0MMY said:

RobM77 said:

f course, yes. That's a classic PH mis-understanding that often comes up on threads like these. The statement "I prefer RWD" or even the stronger "I only like RWD" are both different to saying "all RWD cars are better than all FWD cars". It's a bit someone saying that they only really like slim women; that's not the same as saying that all slim women are attractive.

This is very true and while I think a 320d is a great alternative to many of the other Diesel repmobiles I'm restricted to as a company car, I'm not sure I'd automatically assume they handled better than a Mondeo or any other option purely on the basis that they're RWD.

I've not driven any recent models but had a couple of E36s and to be honest I always felt they were a long way from The Ultimate Driving Machine. I owned a Xsara VTS alongside a 328i coupe and while the latter was lovely on the motorway and had a great engine, the Xsara felt so much more lively and agile to drive with a far more exciting balance. BMWs in my experience are set up with safety understeer, the same as any other non-sports car (and many actual sportscars). The fact that you can upset the back end with a big indelicate dollop of throttle doesn't make them feel lively to me; I like a car that oversteers both on and off the throttle so you actually have some control over the thing. They may be RWD but they're a long way from sporty IMO, unless the recent versions are fundamentally different.

To clarify this is me railing against people that have only ever driven shopping cars then get a BMW and immediately think it's got "sportscar handling". I've nothing against them when assessed in the class of practical commuter cars and compared to the other similar repmobile options it's probably the one I'd have but it's far from a do-everything car if "everything" has to include being an entertaining B-road toy.

Edited by T0MMY on Monday 6th July 18:16

Having rear wheel drive doesn't automatically make the 3 series handle well, but I'm of the opinion that it does handle very well indeed. The whole 'Ultimate Driving Machine' moniker is a bit like "Probably the best lager in the world" - it's just smug marketing to be ignored - if you judge the product for what it is then it's an extremely good handling saloon car. Handling will always be subjective, but I find that my E90 allows me to take whatever stance I want to in a corner and to control the car smoothly between u/s o/s and n/s, and to me that defines 'good handling'. It's good handling for a 1350kg car; I think that the Elise, whilst not being as well balanced, handles better as a virtue of its light weight and lack of power steering. The 3 series though is doing pretty dam well for what it is - a family car - and if you have to have a car of that type for your daily duties I can't think of anything I'd rather be in.

[Ares]

cerb4.5lee said:

Fair play! and I respect your dedication I was 10 stone from aged 16 to 32 but the last 10 years I have put it on, almost 42 now and if I gave up the drink I would soon be back to 10 stone but I am not giving that up! but I have to run or I would just pile it on.

I'm 43. 63kg, 8% bodyfat, can bench and squat double my body weight.....and drink like a fish (but avoid beer most of the time). Life is all about moderation. 6 days/wk in the gym offsets the taste for drink.

As I was told.....nothing tastes as good as walking on a beach with a six pack feels.

[RobM77]

Ares said:

cerb4.5lee said:

Ares said:

More power makes you faster in a straight line
Less weight makes you faster everywhere.

/Colin Chapman

I think that is what gets to me with quick BMW`s now in that they have loads of power but its only there to compensate for the weight they carry, and more weight just effects direction changes and hammers brakes and uses more fuel too.

Colin Chapman has very wise words.

Current M3/M4 are almost 100kg lighter than the preceding M3. They're listening.

Audi have done the opposite with the RS4 though, adding almost 100kg

As Tommy says, they each know their market well. Audis are presumably designed to be smooth, solid luxurious transport with neat but dull handling. BMWs have always been trying but not quite succeeding to match the smoothness and luxury of an Audi, but have always had the advantage of handling very well. It therefore makes sense for BMW to try hard to lose weight and for Audi not to fret about gaining it. Each car does what it's presumably designed to do very well.

[cerb4.5lee]

Ares said:

cerb4.5lee said:

Fair play! and I respect your dedication I was 10 stone from aged 16 to 32 but the last 10 years I have put it on, almost 42 now and if I gave up the drink I would soon be back to 10 stone but I am not giving that up! but I have to run or I would just pile it on.

I'm 43. 63kg, 8% bodyfat, can bench and squat double my body weight.....and drink like a fish (but avoid beer most of the time). Life is all about moderation. 6 days/wk in the gym offsets the taste for drink.

As I was told.....nothing tastes as good as walking on a beach with a six pack feels.

Good stuff and I have always respected people who go to the gym because I know it takes massive dedication, I was really fortunate that when I was younger I naturally had a bit of a six pack but admitted that's faded now a fair bit!

I have never been to a gym but I thoroughly enjoy running and was pretty good at it when I was younger so I started running again almost three years ago and I always feel great when I get back from a run so I would imagine you get so much satisfaction from the gym not only from the way you look but also the way you feel too.

[Tractor lad]

Ares said:

I'm 43. 63kg, 8% bodyfat, can bench and squat double my body weight.....and drink like a fish (but avoid beer most of the time). Life is all about moderation. 6 days/wk in the gym offsets the taste for drink.

As I was told.....nothing tastes as good as walking on a beach with a six pack feels.

Blimey I thought I was light at 72kg!!
Just turned 40, won a few races recently (running, a triathlon, and a surf comp), surf most days, do loads of coast running, blah blah. TBH, down here in Cornwall, you definitely see more fitness people than in cities; most of my similar aged mates are healthy; I can't actually think of any that are porky.

[Catatafish]

Ah... welcome back cringe thread.

[cerb4.5lee]

Its temporarily turned into a men`s fitness thread!

[anonymous-user]

Catatafish said:

Ah... welcome back cringe thread.

Yes. Desperate.