What defines a fast car?
Discussion
bigee said:
ORD said:
Good post.
This thread is a good example of how most PHers refuse to express a sensible view on anything, preferring instead to bang on about how fast their car is and how anything less than 200mph around a hairpin just leaves them cold these days. Probably the same douche bags that you see understeering over the centre line while their ESC catches them at 58mph on an NSL road.
0-100 in 10 seconds is already a very high hurdle indeed. The fact that people pretend that they wouldn't consider that 'fast' is so cringeworthy. Unless they simply don't know what the word 'fast' means.
Imagine a thread on 100 metre sprinting. Half these guys would be saying '9.6 seconds or under is fast. Anything else is pedestrian once you have been Usain Bolt for a while like me.'
This.This thread is a good example of how most PHers refuse to express a sensible view on anything, preferring instead to bang on about how fast their car is and how anything less than 200mph around a hairpin just leaves them cold these days. Probably the same douche bags that you see understeering over the centre line while their ESC catches them at 58mph on an NSL road.
0-100 in 10 seconds is already a very high hurdle indeed. The fact that people pretend that they wouldn't consider that 'fast' is so cringeworthy. Unless they simply don't know what the word 'fast' means.
Imagine a thread on 100 metre sprinting. Half these guys would be saying '9.6 seconds or under is fast. Anything else is pedestrian once you have been Usain Bolt for a while like me.'
RobM77 said:
bigee said:
ORD said:
Good post.
This thread is a good example of how most PHers refuse to express a sensible view on anything, preferring instead to bang on about how fast their car is and how anything less than 200mph around a hairpin just leaves them cold these days. Probably the same douche bags that you see understeering over the centre line while their ESC catches them at 58mph on an NSL road.
0-100 in 10 seconds is already a very high hurdle indeed. The fact that people pretend that they wouldn't consider that 'fast' is so cringeworthy. Unless they simply don't know what the word 'fast' means.
Imagine a thread on 100 metre sprinting. Half these guys would be saying '9.6 seconds or under is fast. Anything else is pedestrian once you have been Usain Bolt for a while like me.'
This.This thread is a good example of how most PHers refuse to express a sensible view on anything, preferring instead to bang on about how fast their car is and how anything less than 200mph around a hairpin just leaves them cold these days. Probably the same douche bags that you see understeering over the centre line while their ESC catches them at 58mph on an NSL road.
0-100 in 10 seconds is already a very high hurdle indeed. The fact that people pretend that they wouldn't consider that 'fast' is so cringeworthy. Unless they simply don't know what the word 'fast' means.
Imagine a thread on 100 metre sprinting. Half these guys would be saying '9.6 seconds or under is fast. Anything else is pedestrian once you have been Usain Bolt for a while like me.'
Finally, to add to the debate a landrover would be faster across Salisbury plain than a La Ferrari.....
Ben
I can remember thrashing a 1.1L Fiesta to death in an attempt to overtake any thing, foot stamped firmly to the floor desperately trying to reach that gap in front. These days I find a fast car means you take your foot off the accelerator as you pass the other car for fear of exceeding 100mph. A very fast car means you virtually just dab the throttle.
0-100 is probably the easiest and most sensible metric. We are talking primarily about road driving, as otherwise very few cars are fast compared to a specialist track vehicle.
I agree with the guy who said that there can be two questions - what do you find fast? And, what do you think is the objective benchmark these days?
As I understand the OP, he was asking the second question.
I agree with the guy who said that there can be two questions - what do you find fast? And, what do you think is the objective benchmark these days?
As I understand the OP, he was asking the second question.
I think 100 in 10 is a good target for straight line, less than 1:30 on the TG test track(http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/1R0tWpR5VYqTRw1vCX2zXyf/power-laps) for track times. I think there should also be an in-gear acceleration from 50-80, but do not have an idea on what would equate to a decent number. These are objective numbers as regards to OP, subjective is a whole different matter on which no-one will agree, just like the definition of a supercar 
neil1jnr said:
To me, a fast car is any car that gives the sensation that that it is fast, if it feels fast then I'd class that car as a fast one. It's all relative and a matter of opinion. A clio 182 for example may not be most peoples definition of a fast car, but if you are really going for it on a narrow B-road then yes, it is a fast car. The same car though to me would be considered slow on a motorway next to a 911 Turbo.
Agree. This is subjective. My first real sensation going fast was in an original Mini Cooper. The next occasion was Merc 300SEL 6.3. I went in Bentley Continental the other day. Nice car but did not feel the sensation of "fast".BORN2bWILD said:
I have owned a few 'fast' cars over the years, I think the classic Scooby P1 with 315bhp was probaly the most fun as it handled like a dream with 0-60 in about 4.5 seconds and top speed about 155MPH.
Yesterday I drove a Lambo, Ferrari and GT-R at Dunsfold track, the Lambo was a clunky bag of poo, the Ferrari was much better and very pretty, but the GT-R was better to drive and faster around the track than any other road going car there, and that includes the McLarens, Astons etc.
I was told by the pro driver no other car could beat the GT-R (530BHP with ceramic brake kit) and it was the car of choice to take home at night.
I was very pleased that the pros rated the GT-R so highly as I have a 600BHP Black Edition and love it, 0-60 in less than 3 seconds and over 200MPH, but for fun I still miss that Scooby P1.
I have an Impreza P1 with 570bhp that's a bit nippy, given it only weighs 1290kg. It passes all the tests I've seen quoted so far for a fast car (0-60 2.9, 0-100 7 dead, geared to a max of 175mph) including the "passenger goes white, shuts their eyes, and holds their breath until you back off after which they say some deeply unprofessional stuff" Yesterday I drove a Lambo, Ferrari and GT-R at Dunsfold track, the Lambo was a clunky bag of poo, the Ferrari was much better and very pretty, but the GT-R was better to drive and faster around the track than any other road going car there, and that includes the McLarens, Astons etc.
I was told by the pro driver no other car could beat the GT-R (530BHP with ceramic brake kit) and it was the car of choice to take home at night.
I was very pleased that the pros rated the GT-R so highly as I have a 600BHP Black Edition and love it, 0-60 in less than 3 seconds and over 200MPH, but for fun I still miss that Scooby P1.
I also did a Longcross day with a lambo Gallardo, 911 Turbo, Aston db9 and an Ariel. The only car that felt fast to me out of those four was the Ariel.Having said that, I have never been as scared as I was in a friend's original Mini Cooper when the front wheel fell off at 75 mph on a busy motorway- that suddenly felt quite fast.
Another Impreza worth looking at is Andy Forrest's shed built Impreza classic - 0-174mph in 7.7 seconds. That's sprightly. Lots of YouTube videos of it, but admittedly you wouldn't nip down the shops in it.
BORN2bWILD said:
I have owned a few 'fast' cars over the years, I think the classic Scooby P1 with 315bhp was probaly the most fun as it handled like a dream with 0-60 in about 4.5 seconds and top speed about 155MPH.
Yesterday I drove a Lambo, Ferrari and GT-R at Dunsfold track, the Lambo was a clunky bag of poo, the Ferrari was much better and very pretty, but the GT-R was better to drive and faster around the track than any other road going car there, and that includes the McLarens, Astons etc.
I was told by the pro driver no other car could beat the GT-R (530BHP with ceramic brake kit) and it was the car of choice to take home at night.
I was very pleased that the pros rated the GT-R so highly as I have a 600BHP Black Edition and love it, 0-60 in less than 3 seconds and over 200MPH, but for fun I still miss that Scooby P1.
I have an Impreza P1 with 570bhp that's a bit nippy, given it only weighs 1290kg. It passes all the tests I've seen quoted so far for a fast car (0-60 2.9, 0-100 7 dead, geared to a max of 175mph) including the "passenger goes white, shuts their eyes, and holds their breath until you back off after which they say some deeply unprofessional stuff" Yesterday I drove a Lambo, Ferrari and GT-R at Dunsfold track, the Lambo was a clunky bag of poo, the Ferrari was much better and very pretty, but the GT-R was better to drive and faster around the track than any other road going car there, and that includes the McLarens, Astons etc.
I was told by the pro driver no other car could beat the GT-R (530BHP with ceramic brake kit) and it was the car of choice to take home at night.
I was very pleased that the pros rated the GT-R so highly as I have a 600BHP Black Edition and love it, 0-60 in less than 3 seconds and over 200MPH, but for fun I still miss that Scooby P1.
I also did a Longcross day with a lambo Gallardo, 911 Turbo, Aston db9 and an Ariel. The only car that felt fast to me out of those four was the Ariel.Having said that, I have never been as scared as I was in a friend's original Mini Cooper when the front wheel fell off at 75 mph on a busy motorway- that suddenly felt quite fast.
Another Impreza worth looking at is Andy Forrest's shed built Impreza classic - 0-174mph in 7.7 seconds. That's sprightly. Lots of YouTube videos of it, but admittedly you wouldn't nip down the shops in it.
I haven't read the whole thread but here's my 0.02p worth. It depends entirely on the context; as a drag racer my outlook is probably somewhat skewed, here is what I bracket speed ratings based on 1/4 mile times:
12.99 to 10.00: quick
9.99 to 7.00: really quick
6.99 to 5.00: silly quick
< 4.99: mentally quick
If a car is the quickest and fastest in drag racing it has the lowest elapsed time (measure of quickness) and the highest speed (measure of fastness) in its class (or in general).
For circuit racing it is easy to put into context; you can judge it on lap times, maximum speed on the straight, whatever you want, or even the team as a whole in an endurance race like Le Mans. Sprints and point to point like rallying is going to be based on stage times; again fairly easy to put into context.
There are too many variables for road based vehicles to make a judgement and to be honest it falls on the individual as to what they consider quick or fast or both, some like me consider the feel (or spectacle in terms of watching drag racing racing) of brutal acceleration to be a measure of how quick a car is. Personally how fast a car goes around a track or can get from Leeds to Hull on the M62/A63 is of no interest to me, I like to be pushed back in my seat and have a nice positive thump every time it shifts gear.
12.99 to 10.00: quick
9.99 to 7.00: really quick
6.99 to 5.00: silly quick
< 4.99: mentally quick
If a car is the quickest and fastest in drag racing it has the lowest elapsed time (measure of quickness) and the highest speed (measure of fastness) in its class (or in general).
For circuit racing it is easy to put into context; you can judge it on lap times, maximum speed on the straight, whatever you want, or even the team as a whole in an endurance race like Le Mans. Sprints and point to point like rallying is going to be based on stage times; again fairly easy to put into context.
There are too many variables for road based vehicles to make a judgement and to be honest it falls on the individual as to what they consider quick or fast or both, some like me consider the feel (or spectacle in terms of watching drag racing racing) of brutal acceleration to be a measure of how quick a car is. Personally how fast a car goes around a track or can get from Leeds to Hull on the M62/A63 is of no interest to me, I like to be pushed back in my seat and have a nice positive thump every time it shifts gear.
Edited by PanzerCommander on Tuesday 30th June 12:50
PanzerCommander said:
I haven't read the whole thread but here's my 0.02p worth. It depends entirely on the context; as a drag racer my outlook is probably somewhat skewed, here is what I bracket speed ratings based on 1/4 mile times:
12.99 to 10.00: quick
9.99 to 7.00: really quick
6.99 to 5.00: silly quick
< 4.99: mentally quick
If a car is the quickest and fastest in drag racing it has the lowest elapsed time (measure of quickness) and the highest speed (measure of fastness) in its class (or in general).
For circuit racing it is easy to put into context; you can judge it on lap times, maximum speed on the straight, whatever you want, or even the team as a whole in an endurance race like Le Mans. Sprints and point to point like rallying is going to be based on stage times; again fairly easy to put into context.
There are too many variables for road based vehicles to make a judgement and to be honest it falls on the individual as to what they consider quick or fast or both, some like me consider the feel (or spectacle in terms of watching drag racing racing) of brutal acceleration to be a measure of how quick a car is. Personally how fast a car goes around a track or can get from Leeds to Hull on the M62/A63 is of no interest to me, I like to be pushed back in my seat and have a nice positive thump every time it shifts gear.
12.99 to 10.00: quick
9.99 to 7.00: really quick
6.99 to 5.00: silly quick
< 4.99: mentally quick
If a car is the quickest and fastest in drag racing it has the lowest elapsed time (measure of quickness) and the highest speed (measure of fastness) in its class (or in general).
For circuit racing it is easy to put into context; you can judge it on lap times, maximum speed on the straight, whatever you want, or even the team as a whole in an endurance race like Le Mans. Sprints and point to point like rallying is going to be based on stage times; again fairly easy to put into context.
There are too many variables for road based vehicles to make a judgement and to be honest it falls on the individual as to what they consider quick or fast or both, some like me consider the feel (or spectacle in terms of watching drag racing racing) of brutal acceleration to be a measure of how quick a car is. Personally how fast a car goes around a track or can get from Leeds to Hull on the M62/A63 is of no interest to me, I like to be pushed back in my seat and have a nice positive thump every time it shifts gear.
Edited by PanzerCommander on Tuesday 30th June 12:50
Very well put. The problem with road cars is that they're in a grey area of compromise. Take a fast road car, say for example the aforementioned Nissan GTR. Now, if you lower it so the bottom is 2cm from the ground, it'll be faster round a race track, but it'd be really rubbish as a road car. Equally, if you strip the entire interior out, it'll be faster, but far less practical. You could make a huge list of things like that and the trouble is where do you stop? My Lotus 2-Eleven, a road legal Lotus track car based on the Elise, is massively faster than my Elise was (it's effectively an Elise with all that stuff done to it), but that by no means makes it a better car than the Elise because I don't want to use it every day, I keep it for track days and sunny days. So why not buy a GTR and do both? Well, because enjoyment is the major factor with a sports car for me and I wouldn't enjoy driving a 1.7 tonne four wheel drive car as much as a delicate little Lotus. So you soon see that comparing competition cars is easy, but comparing how fast road cars are gets difficult, and ultimately it's not hugely relevant.As a circuit racer though, my definition of fast is as you describe above for my arena of interest: how quickly something can lap a race track. So in my world, a £10k Formula Ford is 'faster' than a Ferrari Enzo, but I'm well aware that the Enzo's faster in a lot of people's minds (i.e. top speed, 0-100mph), and I think I'd agree with them that I'd rather own the Enzo.
RobM77 said:
...
Someone who rides a reasonable motorbike a few times a week is not going to get into a 12 sec 0-100 car and find it fast...
It's funny you should use that example though as that is exactly why I've been saying on this thread that people are talking balls when they claim some obviously fast car is not fast to them because they've driven something faster. Someone who rides a reasonable motorbike a few times a week is not going to get into a 12 sec 0-100 car and find it fast...
I've been riding sportsbikes on road and track for nearly 20 years, but if I jump in a car with even "just" say 250bhp/tonne it still feels fast, because it is fast! It may not be as fast as any of my bikes nor indeed my car but I'd still appreciate it's fast.
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