What defines a fast car?
Discussion
T0MMY said:
ORD said:
Bizarre responses from a lot people.
Many focussing on what makes a car FEEL fast, rather than actually being fast. A lot setting absurdly high benchmarks only met by track cars, exotics and turbo monsters!
3 seconds to 60 isn't 'fast'; it's bats
t mental fast.
I do sometimes think people like to use these threads to emphasise that they're so used to such ballistically quick vehicles that nothing short of an Atom with a Veyron engine driving each wheel is fast to them.Many focussing on what makes a car FEEL fast, rather than actually being fast. A lot setting absurdly high benchmarks only met by track cars, exotics and turbo monsters!
3 seconds to 60 isn't 'fast'; it's bats
t mental fast.Anything with the performance of these cars and upwards I would consider to be fast cars. Yes, there are different brackets of fast however each bracket is inhabited by fast cars e.g. the below...
1. Fiesta ST, Corsa VXR etc. - 0-60 in 6-7 seconds, top speed of 140mph, good in gear performance
2. Golf R, Audi S3 etc. - 0-60 in around 5 seconds, top speed of 155mph, impressive in gear performance
3. BMW M3, C63 AMG etc. - 0-60 in around 4 seconds, top speed of 155mph however could probably muster 170mph+ derestricted
4. Nissan GTR, Porsche 911 Turbo etc. - 0-60 in around 3 seconds, top speed of 180mph+
5. P1/LaF/918/One:1 - nippy
Edited by MrBarry123 on Thursday 25th June 23:24
But as I said above, "fast" is not all about acceleration and top speed. A light car, such as a Caterham, will out brake any of the above, turn in sharper and be back on the power before the others have finished braking. 
I am of course basing this on hill climb experience where cars such as the above are decidedly tardy 
.
Though, to contradict myself, they are all fast and enjoyable cars, but some will brake and turn in better than others.
I am of course basing this on hill climb experience where cars such as the above are decidedly tardy . Though, to contradict myself, they are all fast and enjoyable cars, but some will brake and turn in better than others.
Edited by RegMolehusband on Friday 26th June 07:25
MrBarry123 said:
Completely agree. 0-100 in 10 seconds or below isn't fast, it's very quick and as such, 0-100 in 10 seconds isn't a fair measure. The new Fiesta ST, Mini Cooper S, Corsa VXR, Peugeot 208 GTI 30th etc. are all fast cars however none of them do 0-100 in anywhere near 10 seconds.
Anything with the performance of these cars and upwards I would consider to be fast cars. Yes, there are different brackets of fast however each bracket is inhabited by fast cars e.g. the below...
1. Fiesta ST, Corsa VXR etc. - 0-60 in 6-7 seconds, top speed of 140mph, good in gear performance
2. Golf R, Audi S3 etc. - 0-60 in around 5 seconds, top speed of 155mph, impressive in gear performance
3. BMW M3, C63 AMG etc. - 0-60 in around 4 seconds, top speed of 155mph however could probably muster 170mph+ derestricted
4. Nissan GTR, Porsche 911 Turbo etc. - 0-60 in around 3 seconds, top speed of 180mph+
5. P1/LaF/918/One:1 - nippy
I agree that those are all fast cars (and absurdly fast in lists 4 and 5).Anything with the performance of these cars and upwards I would consider to be fast cars. Yes, there are different brackets of fast however each bracket is inhabited by fast cars e.g. the below...
1. Fiesta ST, Corsa VXR etc. - 0-60 in 6-7 seconds, top speed of 140mph, good in gear performance
2. Golf R, Audi S3 etc. - 0-60 in around 5 seconds, top speed of 155mph, impressive in gear performance
3. BMW M3, C63 AMG etc. - 0-60 in around 4 seconds, top speed of 155mph however could probably muster 170mph+ derestricted
4. Nissan GTR, Porsche 911 Turbo etc. - 0-60 in around 3 seconds, top speed of 180mph+
5. P1/LaF/918/One:1 - nippy
Edited by MrBarry123 on Thursday 25th June 23:24
I think 7 seconds 0-60 is about to right as a threshold. My wife's 320i has a 7.5 seconds 0-60 and is probably slightly traction limited off the line (engine a long way from the back tyres but they are big and grippy), so it is a little bit faster than that would suggest once moving - as any FWD car will be, of course, even more so there.
It feels to me to be on the borderline between fast and 'not slow' / normal. Certainly, everything I have ever driven that has a 0-60 time of 8 seconds plus hasn't felt even borderline.
As for at what speeds a car should deliver good acceleration to be and/or feel fast, I've always thought that 30-70 and 50-90 are the important tests - a car that rips 40 increments at moderate speeds is both actually fast for road use and feels it. A GTR or Turbo S will tear your head off between those speeds.
It differs slightly for different cars, though - I wouldn't worry much about 50-90 in a hot hatch; I would want it to be ballistic 20-50 or 60. A 250bhp hot hatch geared to top out at 120mph could feel and be very fast in real world driving.
Vyse said:
So what cars are considered fast that dont if you the sensation of being pinned to the seat?
Oddly I find my Chimaera to be quite nippy but also it doesn't force you backwards. Which is odd as my old 4 litre did feel faster in that respect. The 5 delivers much smoother power, you just see the person in the mirrors reversing.......theboss said:
StottyEvo said:
BigBen said:
StottyEvo said:
TheAngryDog said:
I used to think, and still do, that a fast car was one that could hit 100mph in 10 seconds or less from standstill.
Would cars today that can achieve that, in your opinion, still be considered fast?
That is my exact benchmark for what I would call fast too Would cars today that can achieve that, in your opinion, still be considered fast?
Re the commend above on 600cc sport bikes - is it fair to assume they are going to be about 7-odd seconds to 100?
Having looked it up the 245 I had later was 7.5 to 100 which surprises me, probably as acceleration is really starting to tail off at 100, whereas the Merc just keeps pulling.
My benchmark is my passengers reaction to acceleration 
There is 3 levels of fast:
Level 1 - You put your foot down and they usually shout some expletives.
Level 2 - You put your foot down, they shut up and go very wide eyed.
Level 3 - This is my new one after recent power hikes, you put your foot down, they take a sharp intake of air and hold their breath until you let off..........I like this one.
There is 3 levels of fast:
Level 1 - You put your foot down and they usually shout some expletives.
Level 2 - You put your foot down, they shut up and go very wide eyed.
Level 3 - This is my new one after recent power hikes, you put your foot down, they take a sharp intake of air and hold their breath until you let off..........I like this one
.RegMolehusband said:
But as I said above, "fast" is not all about acceleration and top speed. A light car, such as a Caterham, will out brake any of the above, turn in sharper and be back on the power before the others have finished braking. I am of course basing this on hill climb experience where cars such as the above are decidedly tardy .
Though, to contradict myself, they are all fast and enjoyable cars, but some will brake and turn in better than others.
I am of course basing this on hill climb experience where cars such as the above are decidedly tardy . Though, to contradict myself, they are all fast and enjoyable cars, but some will brake and turn in better than others.
Edited by RegMolehusband on Friday 26th June 07:25
As I said in my first post, fast for me is usually about lap times. I regard a Caterham R300 as faster than an M3, even though it's slower in terms of acceleration and top speed, because it's faster around a track.Marc p said:
My benchmark is my passengers reaction to acceleration
There is 3 levels of fast:
Level 1 - You put your foot down and they usually shout some expletives.
Level 2 - You put your foot down, they shut up and go very wide eyed.
Level 3 - This is my new one after recent power hikes, you put your foot down, they take a sharp intake of air and hold their breath until you let off..........I like this one.
Proper level three is when they just close thier eyes with one hand clutching the seat bolster and the other clinging to the FM handle There is 3 levels of fast:
Level 1 - You put your foot down and they usually shout some expletives.
Level 2 - You put your foot down, they shut up and go very wide eyed.
Level 3 - This is my new one after recent power hikes, you put your foot down, they take a sharp intake of air and hold their breath until you let off..........I like this one
.
Marc p said:
My benchmark is my passengers reaction to acceleration
There is 3 levels of fast:
Level 1 - You put your foot down and they usually shout some expletives.
Level 2 - You put your foot down, they shut up and go very wide eyed.
Level 3 - This is my new one after recent power hikes, you put your foot down, they take a sharp intake of air and hold their breath until you let off..........I like this one.
From recent experience, I apparently have this one covered! There is 3 levels of fast:
Level 1 - You put your foot down and they usually shout some expletives.
Level 2 - You put your foot down, they shut up and go very wide eyed.
Level 3 - This is my new one after recent power hikes, you put your foot down, they take a sharp intake of air and hold their breath until you let off..........I like this one
.Would like the others as well really...
T0MMY said:
Basing it on how fast it feels is the root cause of people overestimating how fast their turbo diesels are.
My definition of a fast car seems considerably lower than many peoples'. I'd definitely call a 6 second 0-60 car fast. Cutting it off at 0-100 in <10 seconds excludes all kinds of cars that I'd find hard to believe shouldn't be considered "fast".
My definition of a fast car seems considerably lower than many peoples'. I'd definitely call a 6 second 0-60 car fast. Cutting it off at 0-100 in <10 seconds excludes all kinds of cars that I'd find hard to believe shouldn't be considered "fast".
This makes sense, the feeling of speed is important but so is the speedo going up! I can't stand it when people with TDIs bang on about how fast they are when by most measures 8-10 seconds to 60 is not that fast.
If instead of relying on the feeling of being pushed into the seat due to a 1000rpm power band between 2000-30000 rpm maybe pay a little more attention to the way the speedo rises.
For me a proper fast car is one where the speedo moves as fast as the rev counter, one where if you floor it in 3rd/4th/5th the engine responds the way a "regular" car replies in 1st & 2nd!
After driving it for 2 years, I still think my car with a pathetic 316bhp is plenty fast for road use. Floor the throttle at moderate revs and it is quickly much too fast for public roads.
I often wonder if people who only think super fast cars are "fast" use wide-open throttle at high revs all the time in the cars that they don't think are fast.
I often wonder if people who only think super fast cars are "fast" use wide-open throttle at high revs all the time in the cars that they don't think are fast.
ORD said:
I often wonder if people who only think super fast cars are "fast" use wide-open throttle at high revs all the time in the cars that they don't think are fast.
Interesting point, a super fast car that can only utilise a fraction of it's potential due to space/laws/road conditions could be perceived as slower compared with a car that you can rag 2nd/3rd/4th to the redline. aka_kerrly said:
ORD said:
I often wonder if people who only think super fast cars are "fast" use wide-open throttle at high revs all the time in the cars that they don't think are fast.
Interesting point, a super fast car that can only utilise a fraction of it's potential due to space/laws/road conditions could be perceived as slower compared with a car that you can rag 2nd/3rd/4th to the redline.All it means is that to achieve the same level of performance as the car being 10/10th'd in every gear, the super-fast car will just be using a small amount of it's available performance.
Now, if you want to say that the driver of the car being 10/10th'd is having more fun, then I would perhaps be inclined to agree with you.
Edited by TheJimi on Friday 26th June 15:40
A fast car is one that feels fast and excites.
A 1380 mini with 100bhp, or a 1.9 GTi with 130 bhp can be described as fast cars, however a modern semi-sporty saloon may produce better numbers for bhp, acceleration and top speed, however NOT be classed as a fast car.
There are lots of cars that are objectively quick to a statistician, however aren't what I'd class as fast cars.
A 1380 mini with 100bhp, or a 1.9 GTi with 130 bhp can be described as fast cars, however a modern semi-sporty saloon may produce better numbers for bhp, acceleration and top speed, however NOT be classed as a fast car.
There are lots of cars that are objectively quick to a statistician, however aren't what I'd class as fast cars.
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