RE: Porsche 997 Carrera: Catch it while you can
Discussion
anonymous said:
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Im not sure if I can be bothered to reply after this because I already know your type but will have one last stab at it.You said: Fear it's not a question if a 997.1 Cx/CxS has bore scoring, it's how much.
This implying that every engine has bore scoring in some form even if it isnt severe. Someone else commented on selling their car recently which had 80,000 miles and was checked with NO bore scoring disproving your theory.
I point this out and you pick out what you want to hear pulling me up on the fact I said people are stating things as fact when you put the word fear in the sentence. Ok I worded it incorrectly but the point still stands. Not every car has some sort of bore scoring as you claim.
You also focus on the scaremongering comment using this anology:
"As for the scaremongering thing, when somebody is standing on the train tracks and you honestly think there's a train coming, it's not scaremongering to scream, "there's a fking train coming!", even if you are wrong."
Which I took you as admitting you got that theory wrong (which you have)
You cleary stated in the second paragraph of the second post on this thread that it's not a question if a 997.1 Cx/CxS has bore scoring, it's how much. Which is incorrect. People will open this thread look at a few posts and never come back to it as I do on many occasions and read what you have said.
They will then form an opinion based on the words you have written that the problem with these engine failures is widespread and that every engine suffers from bore scoring in some form. They then go away thinking that the early 997's are a bag of nails and a money pit and when someone else asks about them at some point in the future they pass on that knowledge. If you dont see a problem with that then you need your head looking at.
What percentage of these engines suffers from bore scoring? no on knows including porsche themselves.
Im sure you will find some other way to mock me, my gramma or find someway to avoid the actual point of this post.
Article about a great car. 8 pages later still talking about the same risk
Moose, for clarity - I accept there is a flaw and a weakness in these engines (so I trust you're not saying I'm in denial or am a hypocrit). I bought mine and kept a slush fund, 5 years later I haven't had to spend it, lucky me, but might have to spend it tomorrow. That won't make it a bad car, it will be annoying but I know if I'd bought other cars I considered at the time, I'd have had plenty of big bills and it would all be much the same.
I'm beginning to think the problem is that people listen to the 996/997 is just an everyday driver, like any audi or BMW kind of nonsense. They're not, this type of car always has some sort of fragility. If you can't cope with that, don't buy one. If you can accept that you're buying something a bit more specialist, that has some fragility, and will cost anything from good money to a lot of money to keep it in good order, they're wonderful cars.
Don't forget, there are cheaper ways to get this performance, but you don't just buy one for performance.
Moose, for clarity - I accept there is a flaw and a weakness in these engines (so I trust you're not saying I'm in denial or am a hypocrit). I bought mine and kept a slush fund, 5 years later I haven't had to spend it, lucky me, but might have to spend it tomorrow. That won't make it a bad car, it will be annoying but I know if I'd bought other cars I considered at the time, I'd have had plenty of big bills and it would all be much the same.
I'm beginning to think the problem is that people listen to the 996/997 is just an everyday driver, like any audi or BMW kind of nonsense. They're not, this type of car always has some sort of fragility. If you can't cope with that, don't buy one. If you can accept that you're buying something a bit more specialist, that has some fragility, and will cost anything from good money to a lot of money to keep it in good order, they're wonderful cars.
Don't forget, there are cheaper ways to get this performance, but you don't just buy one for performance.
anonymous said:
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So you decided to use option 3 and avoid the point of the post.I will make is simple for you. Answer these questions with a simple yes or no answer.
Did you post this sentence: Fear it's not a question if a 997.1 Cx/CxS has bore scoring, it's how much.?
Did someone post up clearly stating that they sold a car with over 80,000miles with no bore scoring?
Do you know what percentage of engines from the 997.1 have been affected by bore scoring?
One thing I will say; if I was in the market for a 911, and I did a google search for "911 problems", it comes up with 99 million results. Seriously.
I am not going to read through all of that.
Alternatively, I might go into pistonheads, and seek out 911 threads like this one.
And guess what? Hearing about the issues (IMS and bore scoring) in multiple threads is a positive thing for me, because I dont have the time to check 99 million threads.
For a number of people to say they dont want to hear it all the time, I get that. But for other people who dont know as much as you, then this is a useful discussion.
I am not going to read through all of that.
Alternatively, I might go into pistonheads, and seek out 911 threads like this one.
And guess what? Hearing about the issues (IMS and bore scoring) in multiple threads is a positive thing for me, because I dont have the time to check 99 million threads.
For a number of people to say they dont want to hear it all the time, I get that. But for other people who dont know as much as you, then this is a useful discussion.
anonymous said:
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I'll ignore your borderline trolling at the start of your post regarding my straight-forward and easy for most to follow points, and put it to you, that you are a disruptive force on this forum, as you steer many 997 conversations towards this topic, that you spoil people's enjoyment of their cars by spreading worrying opinions that are far from proven. I doubt your prolific posting about 997 engines produces much upside. I have never seen a post from anyone saying thanks for the info I have now not bought one. What do you say to that?anonymous said:
[redacted]
Extra s
thead points for tactical / take-out-of-context editing. 
On a brighter note when I was looking into actually owning a 997 I found this video very helpful and shpws what great cars they are. I'm obviously biased though as I didn't buy one because it's a great car, I'm saying it's a great car because I regret buying one and am incapable of switching to another car
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4pGlX12rjo
jakesmith said:
It was, I suppose, totally predictable that you would pop up with you usual view on this subject. For the interest of balance, for people reading who might take what you say at face value, and who don't know about this issue, my opion is that your views are ridiculous scarmongering, over the top, and tainted by your own personal experience of your engine scoring. I read your opinions and the thinking behind them over and over again on Pistonheads and my opinion is that I very much doubt that every 997 engine will experience bore-scoring, I think that view is ludicrous and should not be taken seriously by people who read these forums.
Yes there is a risk, yes that is unaceptable, but every single engine beng affected? Absolute rubbish. All in my opinion of course.
No, I attacked your arguements, not you, my dear old chum. Yes there is a risk, yes that is unaceptable, but every single engine beng affected? Absolute rubbish. All in my opinion of course.
See above to remind you of where this magical journey started.
I would say so and so does the article this thread was created from. Just go in with your eyes open and make sure you get an inspection from a reputable specialist. The 3.6 is supposed to be more reliable with far less problems reported but as mentioned that could just be because less were sold but it makes sense as they share the same block so the 3.6 will have larger waterways for cooling the cylinder liners.
Other than the engine problems which the discussion on that has now run its cause and I dont anyone will ever agree how much of a problem it is just down to the lack of actuall facts and numbers they are a reliable and well built car.
Servicing isnt cheap but you expect that with a 70k car and I average about 25mpg so not cheap on fuel but you dont buy a 911 if your bothered about mpg.
I will say that the engine does have 'character'. When I first got mine even though I knew it had been checked over evertime I heard a noise like the rattle in the exhaust when it hasnt been started for a while I would jump straight on to google to find its perfectly normal.
To be honest Im not a massive fan of the noise it makes at low revs from the outside, sounds very mechanical and not in a good way in my opinion. sounds good at high revs and love the tone the engine makes inside the cabin though.
Other than the engine problems which the discussion on that has now run its cause and I dont anyone will ever agree how much of a problem it is just down to the lack of actuall facts and numbers they are a reliable and well built car.
Servicing isnt cheap but you expect that with a 70k car and I average about 25mpg so not cheap on fuel but you dont buy a 911 if your bothered about mpg.
I will say that the engine does have 'character'. When I first got mine even though I knew it had been checked over evertime I heard a noise like the rattle in the exhaust when it hasnt been started for a while I would jump straight on to google to find its perfectly normal.
To be honest Im not a massive fan of the noise it makes at low revs from the outside, sounds very mechanical and not in a good way in my opinion. sounds good at high revs and love the tone the engine makes inside the cabin though.
Edited by identity_crisis on Sunday 28th June 22:42
Having watched the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4pGlX12rjo) again for the first time in ages It's reminded me that the original PH article has completely overlooked the fact that the S has significantly better brakes than the standard Carrera when recommending that as the best buy.
996 Turbo even had PCCBs in this test and took 6m longer to brake from 150kph to 0.
996 Turbo even had PCCBs in this test and took 6m longer to brake from 150kph to 0.
CharlieB said:
Confusing detail about chocolate engines aside, are these a good second hand buy at 20k then or not? Or would a late 996 at 15k be a better prospect?
Perhaps a non S cayman with the engine rebuild and smaller alloys would be the perfect buy at this price point?
Yes they are a great car even at 20K. I paid 19K for my last 997. I had to Put just over £1600 into it to bring it up to tip top shape but this was just tyres/third brake light/exhaust/oil pressure switch so pretty much wear and tear parts on a car that was 9 years old when I bought it. Perhaps a non S cayman with the engine rebuild and smaller alloys would be the perfect buy at this price point?
I had the car for a year and did about 7k in it as just a weekend toy. Let it warm up then drive it hard.
Just remember your buying a 60k+ car for 20k so you need to be able to afford 60K car running costs if they happen.
Just a note for the others. When the car was PPI'd at at Strasse I was talking to the guy who checked my car. I asked if he saw a lot of bore scoring to which he replied "not really"
CraigJ said:
Just a note for the others. When the car was PPI'd at at Strasse I was talking to the guy who checked my car. I asked if he saw a lot of bore scoring to which he replied "not really"
Now youve done it. He was clearly wrong and its a widespread epidemic with every car affected in some form and over 50% suffer failures at less than 60,000 miles 
identity_crisis said:
CraigJ said:
Just a note for the others. When the car was PPI'd at at Strasse I was talking to the guy who checked my car. I asked if he saw a lot of bore scoring to which he replied "not really"
Now youve done it. He was clearly wrong and its a widespread epidemic with every car affected in some form and over 50% suffer failures at less than 60,000 miles Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff