RE: Porsche 997 Carrera: Catch it while you can
Discussion
Call me naive, but instead of believing scaremongering waffle on the Internet, I tend to choose to listen to empirical evidence.
I use 2 very busy & well respected Porsche indys, & with a combined 30 years of experience of the 986/996 engines, both each report only a single IMS failure in all that time.
Don't know about bore scoring in 997s, but I'd imagine the interweb tittle tattle is similarly overblown.
rouge59 said:
Call me naive, but instead of believing scaremongering waffle on the Internet, I tend to choose to listen to empirical evidence.
I use 2 very busy & well respected Porsche indys, & with a combined 30 years of experience of the 986/996 engines, both each report only a single IMS failure in all that time.
Don't know about bore scoring in 997s, but I'd imagine the interweb tittle tattle is similarly overblown.
+1 - Getting a little bored of people rolling out the same old 'chocolate engine', 'bore scoring', 'IMS' etc. whenever there's a 997 or similar topic. Research a topic with the intention of proving a negative supposition, as that's what you'll get. I use 2 very busy & well respected Porsche indys, & with a combined 30 years of experience of the 986/996 engines, both each report only a single IMS failure in all that time.
Don't know about bore scoring in 997s, but I'd imagine the interweb tittle tattle is similarly overblown.
I also use a respected indy for my servicing and there's never been a note of concern in the four years they've looked after my POJ. I do recommend an oil change every year regardless of servicing schedule as clean, healthy engine oil also keeps temperatures in check.
My '05 997 is coming up for 95k and still strong as an Ox. Used infrequently, but used pretty hard just as the maker intended. Buy, drive, enjoy and balls to the scaremongers.
Axel987 said:
I`d love to hear about a 150.000 mile 997.1 on its first engine. Im sure they are out there, but there wont be many. Which says it all really.
Just talk to any decent 911 technician and he will tell you to run re these engines.
there is a reason a nice looking 997 is 20 grand.
https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-ins...Just talk to any decent 911 technician and he will tell you to run re these engines.
there is a reason a nice looking 997 is 20 grand.
And
These 2 are nearly there - http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds?Category=us...
And...
Several here over 100k - http://www.autotrader.co.uk/search/used/cars/porsc...
Oh and show me how many 2005+ Aston, Ferrari, Jaguar XKR, Mercedes AMG or similar cars with over 100k on the clock
Edited by fastgerman on Friday 26th June 10:34
Patrick Bateman said:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301443316247?_trksid=p20...
With a Hartech rebuild recently. Has appeared on here before but the price was cut by £3k a few weeks ago.
That's the one to have with long-term ownership in mind. I think with anything else, you'll have a niggling feeling with reliability.With a Hartech rebuild recently. Has appeared on here before but the price was cut by £3k a few weeks ago.
Another 997 thread completely sidetracked & ruined.
There are other aspects to this model, than the now well known potential engine issues. And thousands of completely happy owners out there
Will there ever be a time when this car can be discussed without the same individual dominating the discussion with their opinions.
I am bored of reading them and judging by the multiple responses above, others are too.
Maybe it can be laid to rest now and owners can discuss other aspects of the 997 which is a great car.
I'm, sure there is enough repertoire searchable on the issue for it to be easily discoverable by those looking into the model, without the issue having to dominate and kill so many threads.
There are other aspects to this model, than the now well known potential engine issues. And thousands of completely happy owners out there
Will there ever be a time when this car can be discussed without the same individual dominating the discussion with their opinions.
I am bored of reading them and judging by the multiple responses above, others are too.
Maybe it can be laid to rest now and owners can discuss other aspects of the 997 which is a great car.
I'm, sure there is enough repertoire searchable on the issue for it to be easily discoverable by those looking into the model, without the issue having to dominate and kill so many threads.
Ruined by facts 
The 997.1 is a great car with a s
te engine. Ask any Engine builder - A & P Sportmotoren, RS tuning, any of the big boys in Germany. They look like a deer in the headlights whenever you bring up the M96 and M97 engine. "Very bad engine, do not buy!"
THe problem with the 997.1 is that it is now out of warranty and available to people who will buy it on finance maxing their budget.I`ll tell you what, having a full loan, empty wallet and an engine that decides to pack it in is not a very nice thing and tends to color the ownership experience somewhat!
The clueless will go on about how the IMS problem is blown out of proportion, whereas that is easily rectified ( though burning a 2 grand hole in your pocket in the process).
Google BORE SCORING 997.
The 997.1 is a great car with a s
te engine. Ask any Engine builder - A & P Sportmotoren, RS tuning, any of the big boys in Germany. They look like a deer in the headlights whenever you bring up the M96 and M97 engine. "Very bad engine, do not buy!"THe problem with the 997.1 is that it is now out of warranty and available to people who will buy it on finance maxing their budget.I`ll tell you what, having a full loan, empty wallet and an engine that decides to pack it in is not a very nice thing and tends to color the ownership experience somewhat!
The clueless will go on about how the IMS problem is blown out of proportion, whereas that is easily rectified ( though burning a 2 grand hole in your pocket in the process).
Google BORE SCORING 997.
rouge59 said:
Call me naive, but instead of believing scaremongering waffle on the Internet, I tend to choose to listen to empirical evidence.
I use 2 very busy & well respected Porsche indys, & with a combined 30 years of experience of the 986/996 engines, both each report only a single IMS failure in all that time.
Don't know about bore scoring in 997s, but I'd imagine the interweb tittle tattle is similarly overblown.
You are naive I use 2 very busy & well respected Porsche indys, & with a combined 30 years of experience of the 986/996 engines, both each report only a single IMS failure in all that time.
Don't know about bore scoring in 997s, but I'd imagine the interweb tittle tattle is similarly overblown.
997 is a superb car to drive. 3 solutions:
1. Speak to Autofarm - http://www.autofarm.co.uk/engines/water_cooled
2. Buy a 997 with the Hans Metzger's engine; i.e., the GT3 or Turbo http://www.total911.com/technology-explained-mezge... Not only is it very strong, in GT3 mode it sounds inspirational - it's the real 911 engine, in sound and performance, the 2.7 RS of our times. As rally ace Delecour said in the Harris interview about the 997 GT3 engine - "the engine - fantastique - you do not need anything more".
3. Get Nick Fulljames at Redtek to hotrod a 964 for you - the best 911 engine man in the UK (at least).
1. Speak to Autofarm - http://www.autofarm.co.uk/engines/water_cooled
2. Buy a 997 with the Hans Metzger's engine; i.e., the GT3 or Turbo http://www.total911.com/technology-explained-mezge... Not only is it very strong, in GT3 mode it sounds inspirational - it's the real 911 engine, in sound and performance, the 2.7 RS of our times. As rally ace Delecour said in the Harris interview about the 997 GT3 engine - "the engine - fantastique - you do not need anything more".
3. Get Nick Fulljames at Redtek to hotrod a 964 for you - the best 911 engine man in the UK (at least).
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Despite how it may appear, and I understand your perspective, I have no personal axe to grind with you, but I am frustrated by the number of threads about modern Porsches, where people could get excited about, and talk about how much they enjoy their hard earned cars, how much pleasure they get driving them etc, but they instead constantly revert to this depressing 'were all doomed' point that may or may not be accurate. It is clear to see that it is a big issue. The percentage of cars affected is unknowable though. I, and I think others, are tired of constantly hearing about it the whole time. If it breaks, it will get fixed or the car sold, it's a painful lesson but I don't want to read about it every time I look at the Porsche section on PH, or think about it every time I drive my car. To answer another poster's point I don't completely sympathise with people who financially stretch themselves to the limit to buy a car that they can't afford to run properly, who end up with a big bill, as that is part and parcel of running a car that cost £85k new. Other cars aren't exempt - for example Aston Vantage might have a bulletproof engine but by the time you've sorted out the rust by the door handle, replaced the frayed seatbelt, replaced the squeeling brakes, sorted out the vapour recovery system, put a new clutch in at 40,000 miles, had a £1000 service every year etc, you could easily spend the cost of a hartech rebuild in a couple of years.
As I said before, there is a dearth of info out there and on here about these engine failures and the constant refering back to the issues, not only brings an annoying nagging doubt into the front of people's minds, thus erroding the pleasure of their cars, but also hijacks the forum to the point where it is hard to discuss the merits of what is otherwise an excellent car, a dream car for many of us.
BTW I just looked up 'scaremongering' and google says "a person who spreads frightening or ominous reports or rumours." It doesn't mention the motivation of the individual or their conviction
Like I said before I really don't have an axe to grind, I want to enjoy my car and this forum without having to think about bore scoring the whole time. I hope you find my candour more acceptable on this post!
jakesmith said:
Like I said before I really don't have an axe to grind, I want to enjoy my car and this forum without having to think about bore scoring the whole time. I hope you find my candour more acceptable on this post!
Without doubt these engines have a vulnerability. And yes, it would be very irritating to be hit with the big bill. I've had my 996 C4S for 5 years now - and I've stayed off the porsche forum for the last 3 as I got tired of reading the same thing over and over (with relatively few new contributors who were having problems). It may happen to me one day, annoying, but so be it.Before I bought mine I did some research, read about the issues and paid for an expert to inspect it. It was given the all clear and im trying to enjoy what is a great car. Pistonheads has to be one of the most negative forums ive ever used. Look at any post, even the new one about the lotus 3-eleven and people seem to find stuff to moan about.
It gets pretty tiring and if I read half the stuff I have read on here before I purchased my car I wouldnt have bought it as it really does make you think your car is a ticking time bomb. It may be but im not going to let that stop me using and enjoying my car.
Ive had a few nippy cars including a honda S2000 and my last car was a MK5 golf GTI with over 300bhp. When I first got the car I didnt really get what all the fuss was about, its nice enough. Looks decent from the outside and has a nice interior but didnt feel special. Then I took it out for a proper drive over some great roads ive driven all my cars on, something finally clicked.
The car feels like its in another league over anything else ive owned, I was expecting it to feel big and intimidating to drive but as I started pushing the car seemed to shrink around me. The steering isnt full of feedback but has a nice weight to it and somehow gives you enough to be able to place the car on the road perfectly and really start to lean on the chassis.
As I pushed the car it just seemed to soak it up giving me the confidence to start to bring in the throttle early and fires you out of the corner. The levels of grip and stability through the corners is like nothing else ive driven. I got the car back home and spent the next few days thinking about the drive and how good the car was and had to resist going out in it again.
Its a car that really gets under your skin and I find myself just looking at the car differently to when I first bought it. I was never a porsche fan and only bought this car because it came up at a very good price but I get all the fuss now and have massive respect for the car and brand. Once this car is gone I will be buying another at somepoint hopefully a Turbo or GT3.
Oh and the engines crap and made out of chocolate......
It gets pretty tiring and if I read half the stuff I have read on here before I purchased my car I wouldnt have bought it as it really does make you think your car is a ticking time bomb. It may be but im not going to let that stop me using and enjoying my car.
Ive had a few nippy cars including a honda S2000 and my last car was a MK5 golf GTI with over 300bhp. When I first got the car I didnt really get what all the fuss was about, its nice enough. Looks decent from the outside and has a nice interior but didnt feel special. Then I took it out for a proper drive over some great roads ive driven all my cars on, something finally clicked.
The car feels like its in another league over anything else ive owned, I was expecting it to feel big and intimidating to drive but as I started pushing the car seemed to shrink around me. The steering isnt full of feedback but has a nice weight to it and somehow gives you enough to be able to place the car on the road perfectly and really start to lean on the chassis.
As I pushed the car it just seemed to soak it up giving me the confidence to start to bring in the throttle early and fires you out of the corner. The levels of grip and stability through the corners is like nothing else ive driven. I got the car back home and spent the next few days thinking about the drive and how good the car was and had to resist going out in it again.
Its a car that really gets under your skin and I find myself just looking at the car differently to when I first bought it. I was never a porsche fan and only bought this car because it came up at a very good price but I get all the fuss now and have massive respect for the car and brand. Once this car is gone I will be buying another at somepoint hopefully a Turbo or GT3.
Oh and the engines crap and made out of chocolate......
james28 said:
reading all the horror stories and even down to the porsche mechanics saying they would never buy one was slightly worrying.
This sums it up for me. Many of the so called premium cars are only so in terms of sticker price. On the whole high end cars appear overly complicated and under engineered. As a previous poster said, who cares. Stack em high and sell in huge volumes for huge profit. People only rent them on finance for a year or two anyway. They are a cheap disposable item not designed to last beyond their short warranty. It is only former glories and marketing hype which keeps people distracted.
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